AFL overtaking NRL in QLD

[fake tyrone]

I was surprised by how much AFL I saw being played on tellies in the pubs up in Sydney when I visited in the middle of June this year. I wouldn't say it was everywhere, but just walking around the CBD on a bit of a pub crawl, it was being shown in a fair few venues. My mate who lives up there reckons AFL doesn't get a whole lot of media attention but if you go into the city on gameday when the Swans are playing at home, you see a lot of red and white.

I haven't been to Queensland in years but judging by all the Lions games I watched this year, their home crowds look strong.
I certainly think the AFL is growing in the northern states, but not yet outpacing NRL. I think things might take another 20-30 years before we'll see the true outcome of the AFL's investment in the Suns and Giants.

As an aside, Queensland is actually producing more draftees than ever before, yeah?

 

[glengowan]

As an aside, Queensland is actually producing more draftees than ever before, yeah?

There were around 50 QLDers on AFL lists in 2008. Around 46 in 2013. There's about 30 now.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

There were around 50 QLDers on AFL lists in 2008. Around 46 in 2013. There's about 30 now.

I remember the 2006 draft had 11 Queenslanders drafted. Something like 8 in the top 32

 

[Bjo187]

There were around 50 QLDers on AFL lists in 2008. Around 46 in 2013. There's about 30 now.

I think we're at the start of the boom though. With 4 suns in the top 25 last year, the Ashcroft brothers across 3 years being arguably the best players in the country, also Queenslanders.

Then Lombard, uwland and the likes next year, it seems more top quality than quantity that will be coming through in droves over the next few years. A whole bunch of first rounders. Actually nsw is quite similar, I think they only have about 50 players in the afl, but the quality is top notch and could beat s.a and potentially w.a in a state game imo.

The one thing the AFL need to do is get into the private schools in QLD. The women's did just in the past year but there is still a ban on Aussie rules for boys. That would see it boom even more and become the second strongest state at producing talent. Something they seem to be on the way to becoming anyway.

 

[GC2015]

People around here won't accept it, but, ATM, the Titan's ceiling is much higher than the Sun's as well. The Titans, and all historic GC RL sides, are hampered by their own incompetence, but they'd grow comparatively quickly if they ever stopped sucking for an extended period.

Interesting view. I've been living on the GC my whole life for more than 20 years, went to school here etc. I don't really get that impression from my experiences and I've mixed in circles that are both league and/or Aussie rules inclined. One thing I can say with confidence is that there's a good amount of people on the GC who are interested in Aussie rules, but keep quiet about it because they don't want to be judged/criticised. I don't think that's going to change until the Suns start having on field success and the social stigma that comes with following Aussie rules starts to go away.

There's no doubt both GC teams have been hampered by incompetence, but the Titans have had glimpses of success and it hasn't really grown the way that you're suggesting. They played finals in 2021 and averaged 14k to their home games that year. The same can be said about 2016 when they played finals and average 13k to home games that year. These aren't impressive numbers in years that they don't "suck" as you put it.

The Suns sold out 4 of 9 home games on the GC this year and spent most of the year outside the top 8 + didn't qualify for the finals. What's going to happen when the Suns do play finals? We've seen what happens when the Titans play finals, but we don't know what happens when the Suns play finals.

The one thing the AFL need to do is get into the private schools in QLD. The women's did just in the past year but there is still a ban on Aussie rules for boys. That would see it boom even more and become the second strongest state at producing talent. Something they seem to be on the way to becoming anyway.

I think you're referring to the GPS competition (which is mostly Brisbane based), but we're starting to see significant inroads being made in the elite private schools on the Gold Coast. Three of the Suns academy members that took part in the U17s Futures game this year were from All Saints Anglican School, arguably the best private school on the Gold Coast and they compete in the elite APS competition. They've had a bit of success in the past with students like Nick Riewoldt and Kurt Tippett, but this next wave appears to be considerably larger and more impressive.

Uwland, Addinsall and White along with the two Ashcroft boys, who also attended All Saints before they moved to Melbourne, shows an unbelievable amount of footy talent is coming from the one school over a 3-4 year period. Plus, All Saints began competing in the AFLQ state cup this year and went deep into the quarterfinals. Having a school like that onboard is going to pay major dividends and it's exactly why it's important for the Brisbane Lions to continue pushing hard with the GPS schools.

 

[fake tyrone]

I think we're at the start of the boom though. With 4 suns in the top 25 last year, the Ashcroft brothers across 3 years being arguably the best players in the country, also Queenslanders.

Then Lombard, uwland and the likes next year, it seems more top quality than quantity that will be coming through in droves over the next few years. A whole bunch of first rounders. Actually nsw is quite similar, I think they only have about 50 players in the afl, but the quality is top notch and could beat s.a and potentially w.a in a state game imo.

The one thing the AFL need to do is get into the private schools in QLD. The women's did just in the past year but there is still a ban on Aussie rules for boys. That would see it boom even more and become the second strongest state at producing talent. Something they seem to be on the way to becoming anyway.

I'm not well-versed in school footy, but I think with rugby union on the slide, there could be an opportunity for Aussie Rules to take its place. The way things are going, I could see athletes with the right body type picking either Aussie Rules or league to pursue professionally.

 

[RedV3x]

I'm not well-versed in school footy, but I think with rugby union on the slide, there could be an opportunity for Aussie Rules to take its place. The way things are going, I could see athletes with the right body type picking either Aussie Rules or league to pursue professionally.

Whilst there is a lot of crossover with football types at junior levels it's not really a question of finding sufficient players.
it's really a question of finding someone willing to coach in what has been a hostile environment.

 

[Badger17]

Interesting view. I've been living on the GC my whole life for more than 20 years, went to school here etc. I don't really get that impression from my experiences and I've mixed in circles that are both league and/or Aussie rules inclined. One thing I can say with confidence is that there's a good amount of people on the GC who are interested in Aussie rules, but keep quiet about it because they don't want to be judged/criticised. I don't think that's going to change until the Suns start having on field success and the social stigma that comes with following Aussie rules starts to go away.

There's no doubt both GC teams have been hampered by incompetence, but the Titans have had glimpses of success and it hasn't really grown the way that you're suggesting. They played finals in 2021 and averaged 14k to their home games that year. The same can be said about 2016 when they played finals and average 13k to home games that year. These aren't impressive numbers in years that they don't "suck" as you put it.

The Suns sold out 4 of 9 home games on the GC this year and spent most of the year outside the top 8 + didn't qualify for the finals. What's going to happen when the Suns do play finals? We've seen what happens when the Titans play finals, but we don't know what happens when the Suns play finals.

The Titans only just squeaked into the finals in 2016 and 2021. Nobody really expected them to make the finals those years, and they were also-rans despite making them. In other words despite making the finals in 2016 and 2021 they were still crap those years, and it isn't surprising that making the finals wasn't reflected in their crowds.

2009, and particularly 2010, are the only years you could argue that they were genuine contenders, but those were very different times to now, so it's kind of hard to compare.

The Titans aren't the be-all and end-all for RL on the GC either, and there're multiple very, very, healthy support bases for other NRL sides on the GC. So healthy that it hasn't been uncommon for the away contingent to be larger than home support at Robina in the past, and not just when the Broncos are in town either. It's a sore point with Titans supporters, but it's symptomatic of the Titans complete failure to capture the market, but I digress.

Crowds aren't the only measure of popularity either and anchoring the discussion on them is silly, especially when attendance culture has never been taken as seriously in the NRL.

Anyway, I honestly don't care enough to really argue the point, but if, hypothetically, both the Titans and Suns were to win their respective grand finals next year, the Titans winning the NRL GF would be a bigger deal than the Suns winning theirs. That's not to say that couldn't change in the future, but that's where things are at the moment.

 

[RedV3x]

Crowds aren't the only measure of popularity either and anchoring the discussion on them is silly,

Traditionally attendances paid for professional sport.

especially when attendance culture has never been taken as seriously in the NRL.

Rugby league quickly overtook rugby union in Australia because it was professional......relying on attendances!!

Anyway, I honestly don't care enough to really argue the point,

Then stop posting- simple.

but if, hypothetically, both the Titans and Suns were to win their respective grand finals next year, the Titans winning the NRL GF would be a bigger deal than the Suns winning theirs.

NO. the NRL is basically two state based whilst the AFL is Australia-wide so the external effect would be greater for the Suns. They would have "joined the club" so to speak.
Internally I don't know. With the incumbent - it's consolidation. With the newcomer - it's validation.

 

[The Educator]

The Titans aren't the be-all and end-all for RL on the GC either, and there're multiple very, very, healthy support bases for other NRL sides on the GC. So healthy that it hasn't been uncommon for the away contingent to be larger than home support

Aside from the amusing league head from Canberra Gold Coast Splaining the Gold Coast to someone from the Gold Coast, you are aware that this is true of AFL clubs as well? I.e., the significant emigre from Victoria SA and Tassie that are the reason the AFL has such a strong base in the Gold Coast largely still support their own teams

 

[GC2015]

The Titans only just squeaked into the finals in 2016 and 2021. Nobody really expected them to make the finals those years, and they were also-rans despite making them. In other words despite making the finals in 2016 and 2021 they were still crap those years, and it isn't surprising that making the finals wasn't reflected in their crowds.

Did you actually watch the Titans in the 2021 finals series? I did. They only lost to the 5th placed Roosters by 1 point in their elimination final and arguably should've snatched it at the end if Herbert had have offloaded the pass slightly earlier. I completely disagree with you that they were "crap" in a year that they made the finals and only lost that final by 1 point. There is a middle ground between the top 4 and "crap".

2009, and particularly 2010, are the only years you could argue that they were genuine contenders, but those were very different times to now, so it's kind of hard to compare.

Which also happened to be before the Suns existed. I remember their crowds and commnunity engagement were solid back then and I think at least some of that had to do with us (as a city) not having an alternative in those winter months. I regularly went to Titans games back then and I know a lot of others who did too, but since the Suns entered the AFL I've only been to a handful of Titans games and I've noticed the same with others who used to attend Titans games back then. So although I agree that on field results would help, I don't think it'll ever be what it used to be back in the pre-Suns era. Particularly if the Suns start having on field results as well.

The Titans aren't the be-all and end-all for RL on the GC either, and there're multiple very, very, healthy support bases for other NRL sides on the GC. So healthy that it hasn't been uncommon for the away contingent to be larger than home support at Robina in the past, and not just when the Broncos are in town either. It's a sore point with Titans supporters, but it's symptomatic of the Titans complete failure to capture the market, but I digress.

As is the case on the Gold Coast with certain AFL teams. There's a reason why the Collingwood game against the Suns pulls a big crowd/sells out every year. It's because there's a lot of Collingwood fans in south east Queensland. The same thing happens when Collingwood play the Lions at the Gabba because they have lots of supporters in south east Queensland. Carlton, Essendon and Richmond also have fairly large supporter bases in south east Queensland.

Rugby league is not unique in that sense and, from my experiences, the people who live up here and support a Victorian team tend to be more open to supporting the local AFL team when it's not against their own team. For example, I sit next to a bloke who is a Suns season ticket holder who openly admits his number 1 team is Essendon, but he shows up in the Suns colours and cheers them on at every home game that's not against Essendon. Conversely, I know two blokes who have lived on the GC their whole lives and are Cronulla/Parramatta fans who refuse to ever go to a Titans game unless it's against their team. Overall, I would say league fans on the Gold Coast are far less willing to 'support the game' than Aussie rules fans on the Gold Coast.

Crowds aren't the only measure of popularity either and anchoring the discussion on them is silly, especially when attendance culture has never been taken as seriously in the NRL.

Yet the Broncos have a long history of pulling impressive crowds. Why are you comparing the Titans to what happens in Sydney when a team one hour up the road is able to pull good crowds on a regular basis? Even the Dolphins pull solid crowds.

Anyway, I honestly don't care enough to really argue the point, but if, hypothetically, both the Titans and Suns were to win their respective grand finals next year, the Titans winning the NRL GF would be a bigger deal than the Suns winning theirs. That's not to say that couldn't change in the future, but that's where things are at the moment.

Maybe so. I certainly got that impression last year when the Broncos and Lions were sharing Grand Final week coverage and the media mostly focused on the Broncos. I'm not sure if it'll be that extreme if it ever happened on the Gold Coast, but I would agree that the Titans are likely to receive slightly more local coverage if that hypothetical were to play out. In terms of national coverage, you could argue either way because the Grand Final coverage that is produced for the AFL is mammoth.