Game Day AFL Round 3 - Collingwood vs St Kilda Matchday Discussion.

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18 months behind? So you really mean 2 years behind since the season has just started and 18 months would put them at the same stage as us for the season in 2018. Don't think so, they've been rebuilding for longer than us, no way are they 2 years behind us, maybe 1 year but either way you've gone and done the same thing you critcised someone else about and gone the other way.

No I meant what I said given the advancements we made at the trade table 18 months ago once we felt we'd milked the draft for as long as we could.

St Kilda have only brought Carlisle in so far and he's out for the year anyway on the flipside we went out and acquired Varcoe, Greenwood, Treloar and Howe as guys that should be walk up starts in the past 18 months. Given how our list has been geared toward 2017 if as you say we are only 12 months ahead of St Kilda the club has a lot to be concerned about internally.

As an aside why does the fact they've been rebuilding longer than us come into it? Firstly that's gone so the start point has no bearing on the end point. Given you want to take that view our base was clearly better with Pendles, Cloke, Reid, Brown and Sidebottom all aged between 23-28 when ours got underway. They had Gilbert, Steven and Armitage to build on hence why they slipped lower and why they are still so far behind.

So no I haven't gone and done the same thing! If both teams play to their abilities it's a 5-6 goal win to Collingwood meaning it's not a tough one nor a walkover...
 
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This 'undersized' backline worries me tbh because if our players don't mark the ball then the ball is gonna be going out of there so quickly and we aren't great at defending fast breaks
 
This 'undersized' backline worries me tbh because if our players don't mark the ball then the ball is gonna be going out of there so quickly and we aren't great at defending fast breaks

That's why it's crucial the midfield gets on top and at least breaks even at the coalface. With clean ball their backline is in trouble, but with average service it could become a struggle...
 
No I meant what I said given the advancements we made at the trade table once we felt we'd milked the draft for as long as we could.

St Kilda have only brought Carlisle in so far and he's out for the year anyway on the flipside we went out and acquired Varcoe, Greenwood, Treloar and Howe as guys that should be walk up starts in the past 18 months.

Why does the fact they've been rebuilding longer than us come into it? Our base was clearly better with Pendles, Cloke, Reid, Brown and Sidebottom all between 23-28 wheelers got underway. They had Gilbert, Steven and Armitage to build on hence why they slipped lower and why they are still so far behind.

So no I haven't gone and done the same thing! If both teams play to their abilities it's a 5-6 goal win meaning it's not a tough one nor a walkover...
Their average age is 7 days younger than ours and their average games played is about 9 games less. You have exaggerated by saying they are 18 months behind whether you are willing to admit it or not. As I said, 18 months from today is equivalent to 2 years behind us (that's an exaggeration). They are 1 year behind us at most. If you didn't mean it in a rebuild/development sense then maybe you should have just said you like our list better, because it doesn't sound like you are talking about it in a development sense.
 
I think this game will be close and we'll pull away in the end. I honestly dont know what to expect with our recent form, cant see us doing anything this year if we lose.
 
Their average age is 9 days younger than ours and their average games played is about 9 games less. You have exaggerated by saying they are 18 months behind whether you are willing to admit it or not. As I said, 18 months from today is equivalent to 2 years behind us (that's an exaggeration). They are 1 year behind us at most. If you didn't mean it in a rebuild/development sense then maybe you should have just said you like our list better, because it doesn't sound like you are talking about it in a development sense.

How have I not looked at it from a development perspective?

I haven't taken into consideration players like Dempster, Fisher, Reiwoldt, Montagna and Swan because they will be gone come the end of 2016 or 2017, I took care to consider who the likely replacements for those older players are, I considered the established players each club had when they began to develop the current squads, I analysed the period in which each coach has had to mould the list and paid attention to the off-season movement's.

Unfortunately you have underestimated the stage the two clubs are at whether you care to admit it or not! It feels obvious that I can't convince you, but thats the beauty of opinions like arseholes everyone's got them :thumbsu:
 
How have I not looked at it from a development perspective?

I haven't taken into consideration players like Dempster, Reiwoldt, Montagna and Swan because they will be gone come the end of 2016 or 2017, I took care to consider who the likely replacements for those older players are, I considered the established players each club had when they began to develop the current squads, I analysed the period in which each coach has had to mould the list and paid attention to the off-season movement's.

Unfortunately you have underestimated the stage the two clubs are at whether you care to admit it or not! It feels obvious that I can't convince you, but thats the beauty of opinions like arseholes everyone's got them :thumbsu:
So your opinion on how you expect the teams to perform today is based on who won't be there next year??? Come on mate, you're better than this.
 
So your opinion on how you expect the teams to perform today is based on who won't be there next year??? Come on mate, you're better than this.

Are you just searching for an argument? First you said I hadn't considered it from a development perspective and now you're questioning the elements I've taken into account for today's result.

Ultimately the elements I touched on are all inclusive and like a jigsaw puzzle they come together to allow me to form an opinion (in this case the difference an off-season can provide). You disagree with it that's all its not a reflection on anything other than what our expectations are.

That's the best I've got given the first question I asked was rhetorical and I'm pressed for time so I can't continue with the discussion. Maybe post match!

Go Pies.
 
Morning all. Big game here really. A loss and that remarkable win from last week means very little. It's like breaking serve in tennis. We've broken the serve of a tough player (by beating one of our tough first 2 opponents) we now need to consolidate that by winning today. If we win today, and we should we will head to Western Australia in a few weeks at 4-1.

Really interested to see how Maynard, Howe and Aish go against lesser opposition over the next few weeks. I hope they all play well today and keep their spot, because it may just force a normally entrenched name out of the 22 with Varcoe and Sidey back next week.

I'll be nervous today, have a lot of saints relatives so losing to them is never fun, not that we've done that in a while.

The good news for us is that the Tigers double faulted 3 times and hit one way wide to hand us the game......... but it's still a break. :p
 

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Are you just searching for an argument? First you said I hadn't considered it from a development perspective and now you're questioning the elements I've taken into account for today's result.

Ultimately the elements I touched on are all inclusive and like a jigsaw puzzle they come together to allow me to form an opinion (in this case the difference an off-season can provide). You disagree with it that's all its not a reflection on anything other than what our expectations are.

That's the best I've got given the first question I asked was rhetorical and I don't have the time to continue with the discussion...

Go Pies.
:$ Guilty :)

P.S. I expect us to win and win well. No excuses for us to lose to them, I just don't think they are quite as bad as some people make out. I actually don't mind their youngsters.

Go Pies! ;)
 
The good news for us is that the Tigers double faulted 3 times and hit one way wide to hand us the game......... but it's still a break. :p
It was like playing Sam Stosur at the Australian Open.:drunk:

And yeah it still counts.
 
18 months behind? So you really mean 2 years behind since the season has just started and 18 months would put them at the same stage as us for the season in 2018. Don't think so, they've been rebuilding for longer than us, no way are they 2 years behind us, maybe 1 year but either way you've gone and done the same thing you critcised someone else about and gone the other way.

We have been rebuilding just as long as they have if not longer. They may well have dropped lower on the ladder and got better picks in but we traded high draft picks in eg Treloar Aish Adams who were all first round picks. We only have Swan in the retirement zone, they stil have half a dozen 30 year olds they rely on too much.
 
:$ Guilty :)

P.S. I expect us to win and win well. No excuses for us to lose to them, I just don't think they are quite as bad as some people make out. I actually don't mind their youngsters.

Go Pies! ;)

Last quick one we'll pick it up post match because I actually don't mind what the Saints are doing I think our differing opinion might be more about where Collingwood is/ should be at :thumbsu:
 
Cant expect too much from Howe yet. Will need 2-3 games.
Even so though, he can't be worse than what Gault has offered the first two weeks. And he's far more versatile, if he is struggling to get into the game we can put him on a wing, or even at half back (where he played a lot last year) to get him into the game.
 
Aints are a clear bottom 4 side while we're supposed to have a great up and coming young list.

Might as well pay out Bucks now if we can't have a reasonably comfortable win.

i hope our players don't come out with this on their mind otherwise we won't win!!
 
Even so though, he can't be worse than what Gault has offered the first two weeks. And he's far more versatile, if he is struggling to get into the game we can put him on a wing, or even at half back (where he played a lot last year) to get him into the game.

Howe had to come in this week for sure but will take some time as (a) hes had an interrupted preseason and (b) hes never played with Collingwood before. Medium term I'm not convinced about him, he needs to show he can win enough ball which is something he never did at Melbourne. It wont be enough to be on the highlights reel every week. Thats something Fasolo took five years to learn...Howe has about half a season to learn the same lessons!

As for Gault, thats a different story. Howe certainly cant ruck though and I'm concerned that we'll have to use Moore and Cloke. The ruck/key forward balance question is still an open one and will remain unresolved for quite some time imo.
 
18 months behind? So you really mean 2 years behind since the season has just started and 18 months would put them at the same stage as us for the season in 2018. Don't think so, they've been rebuilding for longer than us, no way are they 2 years behind us, maybe 1 year but either way you've gone and done the same thing you critcised someone else about and gone the other way.
It depends what you call rebuilding. If you call it harvesting draft picks because you are crap then you are right that St Kilda have been doing that for about as a long as we have. If you call it how long until the respective team will be finishing in the 8 or higher then we are well clear of them. Their list is very very poor imo.
 
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