AFL to mediate on Warnock deal.

[chook2734]

Its situations like this and even what we did to Thornton that has resulted in a slightly changed landscape in regards to this. Robbie is out of contract and has decided which club he wants to go to and the AFL's desire is to have these exchanges sorted out in trade week for reasonable compensation (which pick 24 is) and avoid a shitfight on free agency and player movement.

If Robbie maintains his stance and insists that he wants to go to Carlton then it is going to be very hard for freo to make too many demands.

On this occassion, freo is the loser in the trade. In the future it may happen to us with Gibbs, Hampson, Bower, who knows

The AFL may be able to enforce the draft, even the salary cap, but forcing uncontracted players to head to a club not of their choice wont have a snowflakes chance in hell if challenged in a court of law. And all it'll take is a case like Robbie or Judd last year for it not to work out how the player wants and it will be on. Make no mistake.

I could understand freo being pissed off if we were unreasonable and offered pick 40 but given the circumstances pick 24 is thereabouts.

The only hope Melbourne have is if they convince Warnock to decide to come to their club. It has nothing to do with pleasing freo

The AFL will continue to coerce these deals behind the scenes to go through without too much fuss to stave off our very own Bosman ruling. It hasn't even stood up in this country, let alone internationally. What did the Storm get in terms of compensation for losing Folau to the Broncos? SFA
Why? Because, it has already been challenged in that comp and clubs have no say in where they go. This precedent will apply to AFL players as well if challenged.

This may not be what freo supporters want to hear and thats fair enough. I'd be upset if it was one of my players. But thats the crux of it all.

Now continue with the trolling and useless arguing on what you all would like to receive/trade in this deal if you like...

The AFL are not intervening on the trade.

The request for a mediator has come from Warnock's manager who is scared he might lose some commission if he can't get his player to the right club.

All the scaremongering about courts is just that.

 

[Roosurgence]

If you had been reading the thread you would see where I have already commented on the differences between top draft picks and second rounders in terms of value.

Please please say that the difference between pick 1 and 6 is the same as the difference between 19 and 24 in terms of player quality ... so we can all laugh at you.

It is.. It's 5 picks..... Who's laughing now?

So if Pick 19 becomes the next AFL superstar and pick 24 gets delisted after 2 years it doesn't matter because it was only the second round?

How can you judge player quality when we don't even know who will get selecte by those picks and what they will produce, do you have a crystal ball that shows all this?

Who's to say the gap in between pick 19 and 24 isn't greater than pick 1 and 6?

 

[Crow-mo]

What you fail to realise is that Fremantle are entitiled to get the best deal possible for their football club.

actually this is wrong. Freo are entitled to TRY and get the best deal they can.

after all Warnock has to agree to the trade, failing that he has the right to walk for free.

He can nominate his club of choice, doesn't mean Freo have to send him there unless Carlton come up with an agreeable trade. I would love to see Freo and Melbourne do a Veale deal, just to shove it in Carlton's arrogant face.

That's fine, they can do that. But Melbourne get him for free without offering anything if they don't take carltons offer.

 

[dont bowl there]

Carlton have put 24 on the table in good faith and will add something else if needed, but the Demons are trying to get Warnock for free and hoping it falls over if Fremantle don't take our offer.

Fremantle might be waiting for this "something else" before they do the trade. Why would they accept Carltons first offer if they think it's not the highest bid they will go to?

 

[inyourcool]

The AFL are not intervening on the trade.

The request for a mediator has come from Warnock's manager who is scared he might lose some commission if he can't get his player to the right club.

All the scaremongering about courts is just that.

You cant be that naive!

The spectre of a challenge in regards to player movement is very real. There is precedent in our courts

The fact that a mediator has been called is a side-issue to what the AFL prefer to happen in this trade week. They want to see more player movement and the players wishes being given proper priority.

Really it will come down to how adament Robbie is to get to Carlton. If he can be convinced otherwise, then anything is possible but if he insists on Carlton then its going to be tough for freo

 

[Crow-mo]

There shouldn't be any need for a mediator, the AFL has to bite the bullet and introduce a free agent scheme then we wouldn't have to put up with this bullshit every year.

what they should do, and I think they will do (eventually) is this:

introduce a form of limited free agency, probably predicated on some length of service provisions in return for the abolition of the player under contracts right to veto a trade.

the reason this makes sense, is that it actually reinforces the value of the contract. when you are under contract, you are under contract; when you are not, you are not.

won't be perfect, as there will be limitations but it will be something along those lines.

 

[dont bowl there]

You cant be that naive!

The spectre of a challenge in regards to player movement is very real. There is precedent in our courts

The fact that a mediator has been called is a side-issue to what the AFL prefer to happen in this trade week. They want to see more player movement and the players wishes being given proper priority.

Really it will come down to how adament Robbie is to get to Carlton. If he can be convinced otherwise, then anything is possible but if he insists on Carlton then its going to be tough for freo

How is it tough for Freo? Under the current trading rules we don't have to accept Carltons deal. Maybe they should up the offer if they really want him.

 

[Crow-mo]

And Fremantle are rock solid about it because they DON'T think it's a fair offer...welcome to a negotiation.

you're right, Freo are saying that's not good enough.

the issue is that Freo are also playing a game of chicken with an uncontracted player, and everyone knows there options are very very limited. which is not a good negotiating hand.

 

[chook2734]

You cant be that naive!

The spectre of a challenge in regards to player movement is very real. There is precedent in our courts

The fact that a mediator has been called is a side-issue to what the AFL prefer to happen in this trade week. They want to see more player movement and the players wishes being given proper priority.

Really it will come down to how adament Robbie is to get to Carlton. If he can be convinced otherwise, then anything is possible but if he insists on Carlton then its going to be tough for freo

So where is the intervention to get all the other trades done?

I don't doubt the AFL would prefer that the clubs all trade their disgruntled players and 30 or 40 of them all move around on the first day and everyone plays happy families for the rest of the week, but the reality is, it's not going to happen.

Why don't we just get the court challenge over and done with if it's so inevitable? So far, the player's association are all just huff and puff. If they've got a leg to stand on, then test it. If they don't have the guts to go to court, they should stop the hollow threats.

 

[dont bowl there]

you're right, Freo are saying that's not good enough.

the issue is that Freo are also playing a game of chicken with an uncontracted player, and everyone knows there options are very very limited. which is not a good negotiating hand.

Granted we aren't in the best position but Carlton also showed their hand by offering him the kind of contract that is been talked about, from that it told Fremantle that Carlton rate Warnock higher than pick 24.

 

[Roosurgence]

Abaddon wasn't wrong.

Warnock can't be traded unless he agrees to the trade.

Carlton aren't offering a fifth round pick.

Pick one isn't equal to six this year. SAYS WHO, YOUR MAGIC CRYSTAL BALL?

There isn't much difference between picks 19 and 24 though. AGAIN CAN YOU SEE INTO THE FUTURE?

If Warnock isn't happy with the way Fremantle have acted, he can walk into the PSD or national draft IIRC. AND IF HE DOES THIS HE WILL END UP AT MELBOURNE

It appears Fremantle have backed themselves into a corner here with their ridiculous demand for pick six. I'll AGREE THERE 6 IS RIDICULOUS

Or for Carlton to get a higher pick 16. ACCORDING TO YOUR LOGIC THERE WASN"T MUCH BETWEEN 19 & 24, SO SURELY THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN 16 AND 24 ISNT THAT GREAT EITHER?

Carlton have pick 24.

Carlton can't or shouldn't get a higher pick to satisfy the Dockers. SHOULDN'T THAT BE WON'T INSTEAD OF CAN'T, BECAUSE THEY ARE ARROGANT ENOUGH TO THINK FREO SHOULD JUST TAKE THEIR DEAL?


Trading a player good enough to get pick 16 would be lunacy when he would currently be a better player than Warnock. That would defeat the purpose of offering pick 24 for an uncontracted player that would add to our list structure without destroying our depth. SORRY BUT I DIDN'T THINK OTHER CLUBS HAD TO TAKE INTO ACCOUNT CARLTON'S LIST STRUCTURE OR DEPTH, MY BAD.

Everyone is painting Carlton as the bad cop in this trade, but Fremantle are trying to send a player to a club he doesn't wish to play for out of self interest. I THOUGHT THEY WERE JUST TRYING TO GET THE BEST DEAL POSSIBLE FOR THEIR CLUB?

You can't say without lying that North or any another club would do this differently to Carlton. HATE TO SAY IT CHAMP BUT WE HAVE PLAYE IT DIFFERENTLY, DO THE HAY AND THOMPSON TRADES RING A BELL?

Carlton have put 24 on the table in good faith and will add something else if needed, but the Demons are trying to get Warnock for free and hoping it falls over if Fremantle don't take our offer. THE PROBLEM IS THAT THEY AREN'T ADDING ANYTHING, WELL ANYTHING OF VALUE.

They don't need to offer anything for Warnock if they can force him to become a Melbourne player and hold tight until the last minute.

Add another club to the list of clubs that are hard to trade with. LOL! SURELY CARLTON HEAD THAT LIST WITH THE WAY THEY HAVE ACTED IN THIS YEARS AND LAST YEARS DRAFTS.

We don't get Warnock, but we retain pick 24 whilst Melbourne get an expensive 21 gamer to push out that salary cap and join Fremantle on the trading black list. AND WARNOCK DOESN'T GET TO CARLTON WHICH HAS BEEN MY WHOLE POINT ALONG. ALL BECAUSE CARLTON WOULDN'T BUDGE ON IMPROVING 24.

 

[inyourcool]

How is it tough for Freo? Under the current trading rules we don't have to accept Carltons deal. Maybe they should up the offer if they really want him.

Up it to what? What will it take to please Harvey? Is it up to him or the club to decide the future of an uncontracted player? Or anyone else besides the player himself?

Might be good to become familiar with what happens in the NRL when players come out of contract. Perhaps you'd prefer unrestricted player movement and even the scrapping of the PSD? This isn't legal hyperbole but current reality in that comp.

Our current system only stays in place on the back of the goodwill of all participants, especially the players and AFLPA.

Whether they have the balls to do something is debatable? But the probability of a challenge is always possible. Is pick 24 really that far off what freo people see as reasonable?

 

[mikeythemoocow]

The AFL will continue to coerce these deals behind the scenes to go through without too much fuss to stave off our very own Bosman ruling. It hasn't even stood up in this country, let alone internationally. What did the Storm get in terms of compensation for losing Folau to the Broncos? SFA
Why? Because, it has already been challenged in that comp and clubs have no say in where they go. This precedent will apply to AFL players as well if challenged.

This may not be what freo supporters want to hear and thats fair enough. I'd be upset if it was one of my players. But thats the crux of it all.

Now continue with the trolling and useless arguing on what you all would like to receive/trade in this deal if you like...

I'm not 100% convinced that its as cut and dry as that. AFL is in a very unique position as they are the only Aussie Rules Professional comp in the world (I know players in lesser leagues can per say be Pro but the money is incomparable). The AFL is basically an agent of all the AFL clubs and acts on their behalf so its not not really on company vs. another company in regards to the contracts and limitations imposed upon them. I do think in the end their will be some form of free agency but it will be a convoluted process and not sorted out in court, but rather negotiations between player unions, clubs and the AFL.

 

[chook2734]

Up it to what? What will it take to please Harvey? Is it up to him or the club to decide the future of an uncontracted player? Or anyone else besides the player himself?

Might be good to become familiar with what happens in the NRL when players come out of contract. Perhaps you'd prefer unrestricted player movement and even the scrapping of the PSD? This isn't legal hyperbole but current reality in that comp.

Our current system only stays in place on the back of the goodwill of all participants, especially the players and AFLPA.

Whether they have the balls to do something is debatable? But the probability of a challenge is always possible. Is pick 24 really that far off what freo people see as reasonable?

See, this is most Freo supporters' biggest problem with Carlton. They have shown absolutely no interest in even attempting to offer any more than pick 24. They have shown absolutely no interest in even attempting to upgrade pick 24 via another club. They have shown absolutely no interest in even attempting to negotiate a deal. Why should Freo take anything from Carlton?

 

[dont bowl there]

Mate I dont care if the rules change after this year, we are trading under this years rules and Fremantle don't have to agree to the first thing Carlton throw at them.

 

[raffrox]

See, this is most Freo supporters' biggest problem with Carlton. They have shown absolutely no interest in even attempting to offer any more than pick 24. They have shown absolutely no interest in even attempting to upgrade pick 24 via another club. They have shown absolutely no interest in even attempting to negotiate a deal. Why should Freo take anything from Carlton?

 

[Braun_2_B_Wild]

Granted we aren't in the best position but Carlton also showed their hand by offering him the kind of contract that is been talked about, from that it told Fremantle that Carlton rate Warnock higher than pick 24.

LOL you guys are really hanging your hat on that aren't you. Of course Carlton had to offer him that to get him to come to Carlton.... they knew they were behind Melbourne where his brother is. It doesn't mean they rate him just below Chris Judd.... its just they have to overpay him because of the position they are in.

They still only rate him pick 24 along with the rest of Australia that actually has half a clue and isnt wearing purple.

 

[inyourcool]

See, this is most Freo supporters' biggest problem with Carlton. They have shown absolutely no interest in even attempting to offer any more than pick 24. They have shown absolutely no interest in even attempting to upgrade pick 24 via another club. They have shown absolutely no interest in even attempting to negotiate a deal. Why should Freo take anything from Carlton?

You didn't answer the question. What would it take?

AFAIC, if we had pick 20, you'd want more. Or pick 18, you'd want more. Maybe the mistake was starting the bidding as low as we did so the negotiation process would lead to middle ground of pick 24.

In fact, I think you are ignoring the true and fair aspects of this trade because you are so upset that we haven't followed your script. You have forgotten what is actually on offer!

 

[Braun_2_B_Wild]

See, this is most Freo supporters' biggest problem with Carlton. They have shown absolutely no interest in even attempting to offer any more than pick 24. They have shown absolutely no interest in even attempting to upgrade pick 24 via another club. They have shown absolutely no interest in even attempting to negotiate a deal. Why should Freo take anything from Carlton?

No you are 100% right. Carlton refuse to budge.... it's all Carlton's fault they are bidding for an uncontracted player they could probably get for free.

So I hope tomorrow Freo come out and make an announcement saying that Robert Warnock will be allowed to leave the Dockers for nothing and go in the PSD. That would be a Fremantle kinda thing... that'll show em

 

[Crow-mo]

So why are you offering a ready made ruckman that is only worth pick #24 $400k a year?

if that is true, that is way over the odds for a middle of the road prospect. if.

but I agree, there is merit to your righteous indignation; but like all righteous positions, you have little ability to enforce any sort of justice in the matter.

you get to be unhappy, that's all.

AFAIC, **** em. I'd rather Warnock go to Melbourne for nothing than Carlton for pick 24.

correct. they would seem to be your choices.

 

[chook2734]

No you are 100% right. Carlton refuse to budge.... it's all Carlton's fault they are bidding for an uncontracted player they could probably get for free.

So I hope tomorrow Freo come out and make an announcement saying that Robert Warnock will be allowed to leave the Dockers for nothing and go in the PSD. That would be a Fremantle kinda thing... that'll show em

Ok, I'll bite, how do they get him for free?

 

[15_year_member]

Carlton should stop waving money in the faces of other clubs players and then refusing to make offers to the club that are in the ballpark of what other clubs are offering for the same player. They think getting a player is just a matter of offering him the most money and letting PSD leverage do the rest for them. They are going to cause a revolution and the imposition of free agency very shortly the way they are going. Selfish and unprofessional club that they are.

Just what exactly is this mediator supposed to do? They can't force freo to accept pick 24 or force Carlton to increase the offer?

 

[TheLoris]

correct. they would seem to be your choices.

Not quite.

"Connolly said Fremantle ruckman Robbie Warnock and Geelong midfielder Brent Prismall were still priorities for the club.

"We've certainly got our toe in the water with those two," Connolly said.

"We're pretty keen to keep pursuing those two and we're certainly in the hunt.

"We've certainly spoken again and reinforced our position and it's pretty positive."

http://www.afl.com.au/News/NEWSARTICLE/tabid/208/Default.aspx?newsId=68796

Melbourne look keen to deal, they'll just need to meet his contractual requests, pretty sure he'll be happy going to melbourne with his brother if the deal is comparable. Schwab and Connolly know he's easily worth pick 19. He is young and could lead their ruck for 8-10 years, has good skills and is very mobile.

We won't get pick 6, but what else are we supposed to ask for in the bargaining process? Its only wednesday FFS. Carlton will probably need a sweetner to add to pick 24, pick 40 should do.......we'll even throw in 53 or Scott Thornton, if you squint he looks a bit like David Rhys-Jones....lol

 

[Crow-mo]

Schwab and Connolly know he's easily worth pick 19. He is young and could lead their ruck for 8-10 years, has good skills and is very mobile.

this is warnock we're talking about?

lets not forget he actually isn't that good, I am amazed the market has heated up for him.

maybe you can get pick 19 for him, good luck if you can. lead the ruck for 8 - 10 years, which bizarro world robbie warnock are you watching?

 

[TheLoris]

which bizarro world robbie warnock are you watching?

The same one that Icke, Schwab and Connolly have been watching and they're all very keen to get him to their respective clubs. Coincidence?