News AFL to overhaul the draft, discuss changes to Academy and FS bid matching

[giantroo]

 

[GC2015]

Yeah I wasn't referring to 2022, but I think we would've won in 2023. We lost to the pies by a goal, despite having a lot of injuries, and I mean a lot, then throw in Brayshaw getting concussed 5 mins in, plus we kicked horrendously for goal. I fully believe that with Mac Andrew we win the flag.

Yeah, the father-son bugs me. Everything about it. Not just the access to the player but the club gets a discount! it's embarrassing. With free agency, players are moving all over the place. Joe Daniher is playing for the lions, Lachie Hunter is playing for the Dees, Tom Mitchell at Collingwood, Josh Kennedy who built his career at the Swans. I just think it's a joke.

Regarding Kalani White, it seems like he's not that good. Not a top 30 pick or anything. And the AFL will probably change the rules before we get him anyway. But the damage has been done. Mac Andrew who should be a demon, isn't. And I'll be using it as a valid excuse for as many years as Mac Andrew is dominating the comp.

It's all ifs, buts and maybes with these conversations. We'll never actually know if Mac Andrew would have made that kind of difference to the Dees last year. Conclusive statements cannot be made in hypothetical situations like this.

Hard to tell how good Kalani is at this stage, but that wasn't the point. The point was that a club will have put in 5+ years of time and money into his development his development only for the Dees to likely scoop him up right at the end because of the F/S rule. Surely you can see your club is in an advantegous position because of that?

The AFL have already confirmed the draft rules for next year so that won't be changing and Kalani will be F/S eligible for the Dees. Although I do wonder how Dees fans will feel if Kalani chooses the Suns instead. Could be a bit of hyopcrisy going on if you're outrage goes both ways.

Anyway. You win some, you lose some. You can't control when or if the AFL is going to change rules - you just have to work with what you've got at any given time. Having said that, I get the feeling a lot of Dees fans are just looking for anything to attribute their current woes to. Certainly seemed that way when Garry Lyon commented on Mac Andrew earlier this week.

 

[danster168]

It's all ifs, buts and maybes with these conversations. We'll never actually know if Mac Andrew would have made that kind of difference to the Dees last year. Conclusive statements cannot be made in hypothetical situations like this.

Hard to tell how good Kalani is at this stage, but that wasn't the point. The point was that a club will have put in 5+ years of time and money into his development his development only for the Dees to likely scoop him up right at the end because of the F/S rule. Surely you can see your club is in an advantegous position because of that?

The AFL have already confirmed the draft rules for next year so that won't be changing and Kalani will be F/S eligible for the Dees. Although I do wonder how Dees fans will feel if Kalani chooses the Suns instead. Could be a bit of hyopcrisy going on if you're outrage goes both ways.

Anyway. You win some, you lose some. You can't control when or if the AFL is going to change rules - you just have to work with what you've got at any given time. Having said that, I get the feeling a lot of Dees fans are just looking for anything to attribute their current woes to. Certainly seemed that way when Garry Lyon commented on Mac Andrew earlier this week.

No. Guys like the Ashcroft twins, Daicos, Ugle-Hagan and Mac Andrew were all top end picks. Getting access to them is an advantage. Getting access to a late round pick is little advantage. In fact, sometimes it can even be a disadvantage The demons have Noah Yze. A guy who we may have to take with a low end pick just to keep the father/son harmony.

Also, there is no confidence that the AFL won't change the rules again, disallowing the demons again of a father/son or NGA again.

Regarding Gary Lyon's comments, he was spot on. It was a bloody disgrace by the AFL. People don't talk about it because usually their club has been more kissed etc. Or the media have been completely gagged by the AFL from talking about how messed up the league has become. Dees have had 1 good father son in 20 years. Jack Viney. Would I give jack Viney back provided every other club had to give their Father/sons away and all NGA picks away? In a heart beat!

The dees current woes wouldn't even have been woes if the AFL weren't completely irresponsible and inept in their decision making. Losing such a top end player should result in a compensation pick. It's such a massive blunder and a very valid excuse. Take Ugle-Hagan and Sam Darcy out of the dogs and all of a sudden they're sitting 13th, like the demons. It's not rocket science. We either care about integrity or we don't and considering the AFL doesn't give a stuff about integrity, then the premierships/ladders etc. really means very little.

Collingwoods flag is a clear asterisk given their father sons and very handy NGA player in Quaynor and Brisbane's future success with back to back pick 1's for a top 4 team is something that will never happen in the next 100 years of footy.

 

[GC2015]

No. Guys like the Ashcroft twins, Daicos, Ugle-Hagan and Mac Andrew were all top end picks. Getting access to them is an advantage. Getting access to a late round pick is little advantage. In fact, sometimes it can even be a disadvantage The demons have Noah Yze. A guy who we may have to take with a low end pick just to keep the father/son harmony.

Also, there is no confidence that the AFL won't change the rules again, disallowing the demons again of a father/son or NGA again.

Regarding Gary Lyon's comments, he was spot on. It was a bloody disgrace by the AFL. People don't talk about it because usually their club has been more kissed etc. Or the media have been completely gagged by the AFL from talking about how messed up the league has become. Dees have had 1 good father son in 20 years. Jack Viney. Would I give jack Viney back provided every other club had to give their Father/sons away and all NGA picks away? In a heart beat!

The dees current woes wouldn't even have been woes if the AFL weren't completely irresponsible and inept in their decision making. Losing such a top end player should result in a compensation pick. It's such a massive blunder and a very valid excuse. Take Ugle-Hagan and Sam Darcy out of the dogs and all of a sudden they're sitting 13th, like the demons. It's not rocket science. We either care about integrity or we don't and considering the AFL doesn't give a stuff about integrity, then the premierships/ladders etc. really means very little.

Collingwoods flag is a clear asterisk given their father sons and very handy NGA player in Quaynor and Brisbane's future success with back to back pick 1's for a top 4 team is something that will never happen in the next 100 years of footy.

Alright mate. Everyone gets advantages except the Dees - this is the hill you're going to die on.

 

[danster168]

Alright mate. Everyone gets advantages except the Dees - this is the hill you're going to die on.

Someteams more than others, buttes would be bottom or 2nd bottom on the father/son and NGA gifted list. Just look at the dogs game right now. probably end up with 12 goals from 2 players they shouldn't have access to if the AFL cared about integrity.

You really can't deny that the dees are one of the least gifted club with respect to the father/son and nga players.

 

[FreeAgent1]

Does anyone else think that the “competitive balance review” selected the scope in the only area that has a VIC disadvantage and then sort to even out, whilst ignoring all the rest of the inequalities….

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Alright mate. Everyone gets advantages except the Dees - this is the hill you're going to die on.

Not even mentioning players were recruited at a discount, not for free. There was still a payment.

Jamarra and Darcy were good for us, and we maximised the exchange rates to pay the least for them possible with how late draft pick points got too much value, but we still had to pay something for them. We would have had other draft picks (while worse) instead.

 

[Bulldog1954]

Someteams more than others, buttes would be bottom or 2nd bottom on the father/son and NGA gifted list. Just look at the dogs game right now. probably end up with 12 goals from 2 players they shouldn't have access to if the AFL cared about integrity.

You really can't deny that the dees are one of the least gifted club with respect to the father/son and nga players.

If you really want integrity and everything being fully fair, shouldn't top picks be on a rotation basis? If we really care about integrity, does it stop at father sons and NGA players, or do we have a draft format where everyone over time gets the same shot at the best talent?

 

[danster168]

If you really want integrity and everything being fully fair, shouldn't top picks be on a rotation basis?

Why do we give sides that are at the bottom for a decade like Melbourne were high pick after high pick? If we are really after fairness and the integrity of the game, sides that are a rabble for years and years (and tank) shouldn't be given chance after chance at the best talent should they? Why is that fair?

You're comparing gifting horrendously performing teams with teams getting gifted father/sons and NGA's? Come on now. Let's start with the true unfairness, and then start focussing on the smaller stuff. The dogs are a great example of an average list that's been kissed with father/sons and NGA's and their current ladder position is a reflection of that, and only that. Take away Ugle-hagan, Darcy and Liberatore and it's bottom 6. Just being realistic. Add those 3 to any bottom 8 team and they're top 8.

 

[mpal6]

I think Brisbane fans should be staying out of any convo's to do with F/S and Academy picks with all due respect.

Why? Our academy at best produces mid range rated players during draft year. Andrews was 40s, Hipwood was teens pick but we know where opposition fans rate him. Coleman went undrafted as 18 yo and picked up next year. Payne pick 54. Bruce Reville rookie pick. What are you on about.

We had a barren F/S run since Jonathan Brown in 1998 until Ashcrofts came along. That's 20+ years.

 

[danster168]

Why? Our academy at best produces mid range rated players during draft year. Andrews was 40s, Hipwood was teens pick but we know where opposition fans rate him. Coleman went undrafted as 18 yo and picked up next year. Payne pick 54. Bruce Reville rookie pick. What are you on about.

We had a barren F/S run since Jonathan Brown in 1998 until Ashcrofts came along. That's 20+ years.

Yeah but what you've had recently with the F/S is probably equivalent to 100 years of good luck. Not even exaggerating. 2 number 1 picks, Jasper Fletcher and I think im forgetting another. Compare that to Melbourne. Jack Viney. Our only good father/son in 40 years.

Give the dees back Mac Andrew, 2x Draft Pick No.1's and a late first round F/S prospect and we're immediately top 4.

There is absolutely nothing impressive with what the Lions or Dogs are doing considering their handouts in a flawed system.

 

[The Inbetweener]

Yeah but what you've had recently with the F/S is probably equivalent to 100 years of good luck. Not even exaggerating. 2 number 1 picks, Jasper Fletcher and I think im forgetting another. Compare that to Melbourne. Jack Viney. Our only good father/son in 40 years.

Give the dees back Mac Andrew, 2x Draft Pick No.1's and a late first round F/S prospect and we're immediately top 4.

There is absolutely nothing impressive with what the Lions or Dogs are doing considering their handouts in a flawed system.

The whole AFL is a flawed system though. You are only focusing on one area.

Dogs generally get the most travel for VIC teams most years, draw Geelong in Geelong every year, get no marquee matches, and don’t even get to play home finals at our home ground.

Sometimes things go in your favour like our luck with father sons, and like how you guys got pick 3 for James Frawley as free agency compensation vs pick 17 for Buddy.

 

[Profop]

The fixture is far more impactful to the imbalance of fairness on the competition than the father son rule is

 

[threenewpadlocks]

The fixture is far more impactful to the imbalance of fairness on the competition than the father son rule is

People are acting as if F/S are gained for free, and not at a discount with some outgoing payment too.

Dogs absolutely got Darcy and Jamarra at a discount that was exaggerated with slanted trades because the points system is flawed.

The Dogs basically also took no actual draft picks of value other than Darcy and Jamarra in those years. It was two years of those two players, plus end of draft fodder. It's not as if we got those players and other first and second round players that we would have otherwise gotten.

 

[mpal6]

Yeah but what you've had recently with the F/S is probably equivalent to 100 years of good luck. Not even exaggerating. 2 number 1 picks, Jasper Fletcher and I think im forgetting another. Compare that to Melbourne. Jack Viney. Our only good father/son in 40 years.

Give the dees back Mac Andrew, 2x Draft Pick No.1's and a late first round F/S prospect and we're immediately top 4.

There is absolutely nothing impressive with what the Lions or Dogs are doing considering their handouts in a flawed system.

We can't control luck. If your grievance is how the luck element panned out in terms of father son - that's not something I or anyone can control. We could've easily missed Will as he did acknowledge the massive attraction of staying in the footy hub that is Melbourne city. Lions will continue to have that problem on an ongoing basis when we hit the next down wave. There is no strong AFL foundation, AFL footy based post-career propositions in QLD yet. Grass root growth is still a work in progress or being blocked across QLD schools etc. Long way to go.

If your grievance is towards academy, well we haven't been doing a rolled gold job of unearthing talent yet.

 

[Sphynx]

AFL brought this on themselves.

 

[danster168]

We can't control luck. If your grievance is how the luck element panned out in terms of father son - that's not something I or anyone can control. We could've easily missed Will as he did acknowledge the massive attraction of staying in the footy hub that is Melbourne city. Lions will continue to have that problem on an ongoing basis when we hit the next down wave. There is no strong AFL foundation, AFL footy based post-career propositions in QLD yet. Grass root growth is still a work in progress or being blocked across QLD schools etc. Long way to go.

If your grievance is towards academy, well we haven't been doing a rolled gold job of unearthing talent yet.

I'm not blaming Brisbane. I'm blaming the system. A system that should've been abolished a long time ago. If we truly cared about having a fair competition. Or at the very least have. You can take 1 father/son every 10 years. Or something like that. That would be my only compromise.

 

[bzparkes]

I can appreciate looking for a reason as to why your club is in the state that it currently is, but if you take a step back then you'll realise these kinds of scenarios have happened to many clubs and the Dees aren't the only ones. For example:

Alex Rance was F/S eligible for West Coast up until 14 years of age when the AFL decided to double the required games from 50 to 100. The end result was Richmond drafting a player that becomes a 5x AA key defender who played 200 games and was a part of their drought breaking premiership team. Were West Coast blaming the rule change for their tumble down to 15th in 2008 and 16th in 2010?

The same thing happened with Jeremy and Mitch McGovern who were F/S eligible for Fremantle until the rule changed. I'm sure the 14th placed Dockers in 2009 could have really used a player like Jeremy McGovern if he had have remained F/S eligible for Freo. They also missed out on Jesse Motlop through the NGA rules being altered.

In 2006, the AFL announced a tweak to the F/S rule that meant SA & WA clubs could not claim F/S access to sons of SANFL or WAFL players who reached the arbitrary games criteria shortly after the 20-year period that proceeded their entry into the AFL. This meant soon to be number 1 pick Bryce Gibbs was not eligible to be F/S drafted to the Crows. Similar eligibility issues would hit Port Adelaide when they missed out on drafting players like Brad Ebert and James Borlase.

GWS missed out on Todd Marshall, Charlie Spargo and Jacob Koschitzke after years of developing them because the AFL decided to change their academy zone boundaries. Gold Coast spent five years developing Will Ashcroft through its academy program and the AFL ruled a year before his draft that the Suns did not have access to him because he moved to Victoria before his 15th birthday.

Not a rule change, but Brisbane missed out on the number 1 draft pick Marc Murphy as a F/S pick. 2005 happened to be the year that the Brisbane began their slide down the ladder and could have really used a player like Murphy to avoid the depths they fell to over the next decade. Sydney has also missed out on a few years over the years like Joe Daniher as a F/S pick.

The list of players that looked draft eligible to a particular club at one stage or another and then later weren't goes on and on. The Dees aren't the first to suffer from it and they certainly won't be the last because the AFL always reserves the right to change rules if they see fit.

Good post but on J.McGov, he was a late rookie pick

If Freo wanted him, they could've easily had him.

They didn't miss out.

 

[bzparkes]

Dogs generally get the most travel for VIC teams most years

Can't find other years but Bulldogs are the least traveled team in 2024. There was another article about it I read early in the year around gather Round/Derby showing the same thing.

 

[Dangerousfield]

Can't find other years but Bulldogs are the least traveled team in 2024. There was another article about it I read early in the year around gather Round/Derby showing the same thing.

Might be that the AFL having gifted the Dogs JUH and Darcy for almost nothing and given them the least travelled km this year are lining them up for another Fairypups Premiership.

Watch out for generous and gifted umpiring to them through the finals, like they got in the 2016 farcical flag.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Might be that the AFL having gifted the Dogs JUH and Darcy for almost nothing and given them the least travelled km this year are lining them up for another Fairypups Premiership.

Watch out for generous and gifted umpiring to them through the finals, like they got in the 2016 farcical flag.

Curious as to what you think of the Bulldogs as a club?

 

[Dogflogger]

so only 20-25 years before all the discounted father sons retire and then we can have some semblance of a fair league, as long as the rules don't change within those 20 years. Just gotta fix the fixture in the next 2 decades and our children and our childrens children might have a worthwhile sport to watch. sorry i meant the immigrants children.

 

[Dogflogger]

People are acting as if F/S are gained for free, and not at a discount with some outgoing payment too.

Dogs absolutely got Darcy and Jamarra at a discount that was exaggerated with slanted trades because the points system is flawed.

The Dogs basically also took no actual draft picks of value other than Darcy and Jamarra in those years. It was two years of those two players, plus end of draft fodder. It's not as if we got those players and other first and second round players that we would have otherwise gotten.

they are discounted draftees who potentially have a level of loyalty to your club, from a list management point of view you would be laughing if you had 3-4 loyal discounted players who might take a pay cut to keep a good team together. Kinda like Geelong of the last 2 decades. even if the F/S is traded like Gary Ablett they end up getting more draft collateral than they began with. it's the gift the keeps on giving.

 

[docko911]

Introduce a free agency points system that aligns with draft pick points. Clubs start with a certain amount of points and gain/lose points for players lost/gained through free agency. If a club runs out of points they burn their draft picks to increase their free agency points.

Update father/son and academy player bid matching with the following rules:

• no discounts
• first pick used to match the bid must be the teams next pick and within 10 picks of the bid. Live trading is allowed at this point to acquire the required pick but clubs will not be able to trade away a pick they already hold that can be used to match the bid.
• Remaining points requirement can be matched with any other picks (team can elect which picks to use).
• No limitation on number of picks taken to the draft.
• player must accept bid match

 

[Simon_Nesbit]

Introduce a free agency points system that aligns with draft pick points. Clubs start with a certain amount of points and gain/lose points for players lost/gained through free agency. If a club runs out of points they burn their draft picks to increase their free agency points.

Update father/son and academy player bid matching with the following rules:

• no discounts
• first pick used to match the bid must be the teams next pick and within 10 picks of the bid. Live trading is allowed at this point to acquire the required pick but clubs will not be able to trade away a pick they already hold that can be used to match the bid.
• Remaining points requirement can be matched with any other picks (team can elect which picks to use).
• No limitation on number of picks taken to the draft.
• player must accept bid match

Basically, replace Draft Picks with Draft Points and you solve most/all issues around player movement.

We will never be able to undo FA, but if Points had been adopted instead, it would be easy for every player in the league to have a points allocation applied to them - making "trading" extremely simple and more akin to the buy/sell of the sharemarket.