AFL to zone entire Northern Territory to North Melbourne

[Bunk Moreland]

AFL News 2024: North Melbourne, Northern Territory academies, AFL review, talent pathways, Caroline Wilson comments

amp.nine.com.au

Interesting. Seems like a straight swap for Tassie?

Apparently Geelong, Essendon, Hawthorn, Collingwood and Melbourne currently have pathways in the NT, and would be booted out. I’ll be honest, personally I have no idea what these “pathways” give those clubs anyway.

Assume this means North will take over games played in Darwin and Alice?

I’d also wonder why North get handed a Tassie replacement, but Hawthorn don’t?

 

[Sirlemsip]

AFL News 2024: North Melbourne, Northern Territory academies, AFL review, talent pathways, Caroline Wilson comments

amp.nine.com.au

Interesting. Seems like a straight swap for Tassie?

Apparently Geelong, Essendon, Hawthorn, Collingwood and Melbourne currently have pathways in the NT, and would be booted out. I’ll be honest, personally I have no idea what these “pathways” give those clubs anyway.

Assume this means North will take over games played in Darwin and Alice?

I’d also wonder why North get handed a Tassie replacement, but Hawthorn don’t?

If this is the first step to a move and the 'NT Kangaroos', then I don't have a problem... otherwise, I have concerns.

 

[WillHayward]

Classic #VICBIAS thread.

Have people forgotten the AFL just made the NT a zone for the
Gold Coast??

Suns' link inspiring the next crop of Top End talent

Gold Coast has developed a strong relationship with Darwin as a region which has helped to expose players to the AFL system as well as capture a new supporter base

www.afl.com.au

OP only mentions Vic clubs being "booted out" despite th AFL making a big deal out of GC and the NT Academy Zone just last year.

The North zone would only come AFTER the three year GC zone deal ends.

All those Vic clubs named in OP are irrelevant. They are already out.

 

[HTPunter]

Huh? Crazy. You don’t get handed a strong link, you build it.

Can’t imagine the Suns are happy with this.

Just like Sydney being good with COLA, now the Suns are profiting from their academy all of a sudden it’s an issue for Vic clubs. Father-son wasn’t an issue throughout the 2000s when no Vic clubs really had any possibility of F/S picks due to ages, but no outcries then. Only when a non-Vic club gets an “advantage” is it to do with the “integrity” and “fairness” of the comp (/Chris Scott

Chris Scott

Age

48

Ht

182cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

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Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.6

4star

K

11.2

4star

HB

5.4

4star

M

5.1

5star

T

1.6

4star

G

0.4

3star

No current season stats available

D

13.2

4star

K

10.2

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HB

3.0

3star

M

2.2

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T

2.8

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G

0.4

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).

 

[HTPunter]

Classic #VICBIAS thread.

Have people forgotten the AFL just made the NT a zone for the
Gold Coast??

Suns' link inspiring the next crop of Top End talent

Gold Coast has developed a strong relationship with Darwin as a region which has helped to expose players to the AFL system as well as capture a new supporter base

www.afl.com.au

OP only mentions Vic clubs being "booted out" despite th AFL making a big deal out of GC and the NT Academy Zone just last year.

The North zone would only come AFTER the three year GC zone deal ends.

All those Vic clubs named in OP are irrelevant. They are already out.

Now 6 wins from 6 games up there, even making an outward effort to pick Johnston & Jeffrey for the first time this year in their Darwin games, not dropping Ben Long when he was subbed out the week before the Darwin games, last year they brought back Jy Farrar for the Darwin games. Too many picks to just be a mild coincidence.

They stay up there for the whole week & put in. They make an effort to get family of local/Indigenous players involved.

They deserve it. One good thing the Suns have done so far in their tenure is embrace the Darwin matches whole heartedly.

 

[Couch Coach]

If you look at the map on Nine News Darwin is not included:




Approximate populations for each club at the moment:
Gold Coast (Darwin and Palmerston?) = 126,860
Essendon (West Arnham and Tiwi Islands) = 10,154
Geelong (East Arnhem Land) = 10,011
Hawthorn (Katherine) = 10,829
Melbourne (Alice Springs and Surrounds) = 64,021
Collingwood (Barkly) = 7,239
*Populations from ABS 2023

If it went through North would have circa 100,000 to 150,000 people (depends upon Palmerston in GC zone or not?).

 

[Philhawk]

The North zone would only come AFTER the three year GC zone deal ends.

No. GC would retain Darwin. North the rest.

This sounds great and exciting on the surface, but if North is to do it properly, they’ll need to spend millions (and continue likely spending a million a year after that) on building a proper pathway and maintaining it.

Not sure where North has the money to do this. AFL Tas at least had a pathway that made it more “affordable”.

 

[big_e]

If you look at the map on Nine News Darwin is not included:
View attachment 2036632

View attachment 2036633

Approximate populations for each club at the moment:
Gold Coast (Darwin and Palmerston?) = 126,860
Essendon (West Arnham and Tiwi Islands) = 10,154
Geelong (East Arnhem Land) = 10,011
Hawthorn (Katherine) = 10,829
Melbourne (Alice Springs and Surrounds) = 64,021
Collingwood (Barkly) = 7,239
*Populations from ABS 2023

If it went through North would have circa 100,000 to 150,000 people (depends upon Palmerston in GC zone or not?).

Palmerston is in the Darwin area, officially listed as "mixed". You can search them here: https://www.afl.com.au/draft/nga-clubacademies

 

[Philhawk]

If you look at the map on Nine News Darwin is not included:
View attachment 2036632

View attachment 2036633

Approximate populations for each club at the moment:
Gold Coast (Darwin and Palmerston?) = 126,860
Essendon (West Arnham and Tiwi Islands) = 10,154
Geelong (East Arnhem Land) = 10,011
Hawthorn (Katherine) = 10,829
Melbourne (Alice Springs and Surrounds) = 64,021
Collingwood (Barkly) = 7,239
*Populations from ABS 2023

If it went through North would have circa 100,000 to 150,000 people (depends upon Palmerston in GC zone or not?).

Really puts it in perspective. “Stripping” the other clubs is less of a big deal, considering they’ve all likely got a tiny population of potential applicants for their academy in the first place.

 

[Couch Coach]

Really puts it in perspective. “Stripping” the other clubs is less of a big deal, considering they’ve all likely got a tiny population of potential applicants for their academy in the first place.

There are lots of variables which makes it hard.

NT is likely to have a far greater proportion per population of:

• NGA eligable (Multicultural and Indigenous)
• Young people

https://nteconomy.nt.gov.au/populat...aracterised,for the non‑Aboriginal population.



NT = Say 100,000 people = 3.01% 10-14yo and 2.89% 15-19yo = 5,900 eligable kids
Collingwood NGA =

• Boroondara = 174,537
• Monash = 203,560
• Yarra = 97,448
• Part Manningham = 64,757
• TOTAL = 540,302

So 540,302 people = 0.43%10-14yo and 0.37% 15-19yo = 4,322 eligable kids
(Note Indigenous only as Multicultural % is harder to find)

Other factors:

• Socieconomic = More money generaly equals more success
• Private Schools = Taking kids from one zone to another
• AFL Funding = Some clubs are given more funds than others and therefore may have more money to spend on zones
• Coaches = Better development coaches may be easier to atract to affluent zone.

 

[Sphynx]

If you look at the map on Nine News Darwin is not included:
View attachment 2036632

View attachment 2036633

Approximate populations for each club at the moment:
Gold Coast (Darwin and Palmerston?) = 126,860
Essendon (West Arnham and Tiwi Islands) = 10,154
Geelong (East Arnhem Land) = 10,011
Hawthorn (Katherine) = 10,829
Melbourne (Alice Springs and Surrounds) = 64,021
Collingwood (Barkly) = 7,239
*Populations from ABS 2023

If it went through North would have circa 100,000 to 150,000 people (depends upon Palmerston in GC zone or not?).

They've simply used the current AFL zone graphics I think.

It will be TBC regarding Darwin.

I really don't see how we'd agree to it without Darwin being included, given it's the bulk of the population and the likely costs associated to manage this NGA, it's basically the most costly NGA zone in the country and it's been left to rot since they were awarded to these clubs.

Melbourne, Collingwood, Hawthorn, Essendon and Geelong have all pretty much abandoned their NT NGA zones since Covid and just plough resources into their Melbourne suburban NGA zones which are much more fruitful. That should tell you how much return on investment each one of these clubs view from these rural NT communities.

There's not the same incentive as the GC currently have for Darwin or the Northern Academies have either. As in the end you can only access players you may have identified and brought into development pathways with Picks 20+ (if they change it) - Am I right Swans fans? and their academies cost in the millions to run and maintain. You could just about double or triple it for the NT to do it properly. Hence why none of the Melbourne clubs have done it.


The AFL had to allocate North a tiny corner of the Dogs zone around Werribee in the last few months, which is essentially all paddocks and undeveloped housing development zoned rural land as we currently don't have a zone other than the Melbourne CBD zone. The Tasmanian NGA was disbanded post COVID, hence the special ruling for Sanders last year, who had been in North's NGA since u/12's prior to Covid.

The football heartland of young children of Docklands and the Melbourne CBD is our only other area currently.

Compare that with every other Victorian club, who essentially get major slices of a Coates Talent League team zone.



The alternative to North and NT would be the carving up and rezoning of all the Victorian NGA zones to give us our share.

It would begin with the current Bombers, Dogs, Blues and Tigers zones in the North and Western suburbs of Melbourne and regional Vic.

If the AFL allocates the NT without Darwin, it's just effectively completely screwing North again, like they did with the first NGA zone allocations, nothing new there.

Pretty much every AFL zone outside of the eventual Tassie one contains hundreds of thousands if not millions of residents.

The entire NT zone minus Darwin might have, what 80,000? Spread across a geographical region bigger than Victoria.


There'd be very little motivation for North to put anything into that program unless it was funded by the NT Government themselves.

 

[RUNVS]

Gold Coast having the Northern Territory makes a bit of sense, but North Melbourne? There is no logic there other than the AFL wanting to give the worst club in Melbourne a leg up.

 

[CrowToon]

You really don't understand how the AFL functions or is structured.

You couldn't give me one convincing argument as to why North will still be in the competition in it's current format in another 15 years.

You can't throw this much assistance to a club which isn't a moneymaker and expect to coast along on tradition alone.

 

[Sphynx]

Gold Coast having the Northern Territory makes a bit of sense, but North Melbourne? There is no logic there other than the AFL wanting to give the worst club in Melbourne a leg up.

OK.

So Sydney has the pick of about 5 million people in NSW for their Northern Academy.

West Coat and Fremantle get entire footballing states with massive percentages of first nations people compared to the east coast for their NGA feeder pools.

Likewise Adelaide and Port.

Every Victorian club gets massive territories aligned with CTL u/18 sides and their talent ID and pathways programs.


And North gets....Docklands and the Melbourne CBD?



It's not a leg up if it's actually rectifying a massive rort.

 

[catters05]

If this is the first step to a move and the 'NT Kangaroos', then I don't have a problem... otherwise, I have concerns.

Seems like it as the 20th license will probably be given to Canberra.

 

[Sphynx]

You couldn't give me one convincing argument as to why North will still be in the competition in it's current format in another 15 years.

You can't throw this much assistance to a club which isn't a moneymaker and expect to coast along on tradition alone.

The convincing argument is that North's basically a shareholder of the league.

The AFL doesn't decide.

Did you sleep through the years where the AFL actively tried to force North to the GC and couldn't?


Luckily for us, we've been around for a hundred years, not a decade or two.

Legacy and tradition go a long way, I know it's hard to understand as a SA based supporter.

 

[Couch Coach]

They've simply used the current AFL zone graphics I think.

It will be TBC regarding Darwin.

I really don't see how we'd agree to it without Darwin being included, given it's the bulk of the population and the likely costs associated to manage this NGA, it's basically the most costly NGA zone in the country and it's been left to rot since they were awarded to these clubs.

Melbourne, Collingwood, Hawthorn, Essendon and Geelong have all pretty much abandoned their NT NGA zones since Covid and just plough resources into their Melbourne suburban NGA zones which are much more fruitful. That should tell you how much return on investment each one of these clubs view from these rural NT communities.

There's not the same incentive as the GC currently have for Darwin or the Northern Academies have either. As in the end you can only access players you may have identified and brought into development pathways with Picks 20+ (if they change it) - Am I right Swans fans?


The AFL had to allocate North a tiny corner of the Dogs zone around Werribee in the last few months, which is essentially all paddocks and undeveloped housing development zoned rural land as we currently don't have a zone other than the Melbourne CBD zone. The Tasmanian NGA was disbanded post COVID, hence the special ruling for Sanders last year, who had been in North's NGA since u/12's prior to Covid.

The football heartland of young children of Docklands and the Melbourne CBD is our only other area currently.

Compare that with every other Victorian club, who essentially get major slices of a Coates Talent League team zone.



The alternative to North and NT would be the carving up and rezoning of all the Victorian NGA zones to give us our share.

If the AFL allocates the NT without Darwin, it's just effectively complete screwing North again, like they did with the first NGA zone allocations, nothing new there.

I can't speak for other clubs but I know a bit about Collingwoods NGA.

• All of our NGA, NT and Melbourne, funding was cancelled when the soft cap was reduced and the AFL said they were going to introduce the no NGA matching in the top 40 draft picks. I believe most clubs did this as a push back against the AFL for changing the rules.
• When the AFL said they were going to review the NGA (including the top 40 bid matching) Collingwood poached Harmit Singh from Essendon to re-launch our NGA and combine it with the Peter Daicos Academy (father-son and father-daughter).
• Since the Harmit came in (less than 2 years) we have had three Barkley football camps https://www.collingwoodfc.com.au/news/1279326/pies-make-memories-in-the-northern-territory. So we haven't abandoned our NT NGA.

 

[Bostonian]

OK.

So Sydney has the pick of about 5 million people in NSW for their Northern Academy.

West Coat and Fremantle get entire footballing states with massive percentages of first nations people compared to the east coast for their NGA feeder pools.

Likewise Adelaide and Port.

Every Victorian club gets massive territories aligned with CTL u/18 side and their talent ID and pathways programs.


And North gets....Docklands and the Melbourne CBD?



It's not a leg up if it's actually rectifying a massive rort.

We don't have a massive territory.

 

[Sphynx]

I can't speak for other clubs but I know a bit about Collingwoods NGA.

• All of our NGA, NT and Melbourne, funding was cancelled when the soft cap was reduced and the AFL said they were going to introduce the no NGA matching in the top 40 draft picks. I believe most clubs did this as a push back against the AFL for changing the rules.
• When the AFL said they were goin to review the NGA (including the top 40 bid matching) Collingwood poached Harmit Singh from Essendon to re-launch our NGA and combine it with the Peter Daicos Academy (father-son and father-daughter).
• Since the Harmit came in (less than 2 years) we have had three Barkley football camps https://www.collingwoodfc.com.au/news/1279326/pies-make-memories-in-the-northern-territory. So we haven't abandoned our NT NGA.

I know all of the above.

Part of it was also around COVID travel restrictions etc at the time.

The North Tasmanian NGA was also shut down.

 

[Sphynx]

We don't have a massive territory.

You have a few hundred square kilometers of Melbourne's northern suburbs with a population pool larger than the entirety of Tasmania.

All within the Northern Knights Talent ID region and pathway system.

It's fair to say it's significant.

 

[Couch Coach]

I know all of the above.

Part of it was also around COVID travel restrictions etc at the time.

The North Tasmanian NGA was also shut down.

Then you know Collingwood didn't "pretty much abandoned their NT NGA zones..." dispite it being the size of *Italy and has never produced a single AFL or AFLW player.

*https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl...op-in-indigenous-numbers-20240514-p5jdlg.html

 

[Tiger2709]

Gold Coast having the Northern Territory makes a bit of sense, but North Melbourne? There is no logic there other than the AFL wanting to give the worst club in Melbourne a leg up.

Them becoming the Northern Roos or Northern Territory Roos is the only reason I can think off, having more interstate clubs will also address the Vic Bias that interstate clubs complain about but then we will still be 1 club short when tassie enter the comp?

 

[Sphynx]

Then you know Collingwood didn't "pretty much abandoned their NT NGA zones..." dispite it being the size of *Italy and has never produced a single AFL or AFLW player.

*https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl...op-in-indigenous-numbers-20240514-p5jdlg.html

You did abandon it, 3 camps in a few years is exactly the arms length investment we are talking about.


Your final point is exactly why people getting hung up on "handouts" is hilarious.

The other NT zones are virtually the same.


I would gladly swap the entirety of the NT for Collingwood's Victorian zone.

Lets see the responses if that was to occur.

 

[Philhawk]

I actually have zero concerns with North being given Northern Territory. I’d have more of an issue if Darwin was stripped from the GC, given all the hard work they’ve put into there.

 

[Philhawk]

The other NT zones are virtually the same.

Oh really? What do the Hawks do with their zone?

Please refrain from speaking so confidently about something you clearly know so little about.