Recruiting AFL Trade & Free Agency XII - 💰💰💰

[Lore]

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Spoiler: 2024 Draft Order

 

[ant555]

plenty of teams have decent players who get to 200 games.

Archie is 1/4 of the way there and was arguably the teams best player rd1 vs the hawks. Just in a form slump right now.

Harry has established himself as an afl standard wing this season and can’t even really play the position yet.

Hobbs is being held out of the best 23 by being too similar to Parish (who’s a former AA mid)

With Tsatas, Bryan and Hayes the questions were more about physical strength rather than anything else.

I don’t think having a long career = was a star. Just that you were a good best 22 player and there was no need to drop ya which allowed the team to invest pics in other areas

Perkins is interesting . I think his confidence is down and I think it is partially because he desperately wants to be a midfielder but has struggled with the reality it has not gone that way . His form slump is really because sides worked out his midfield trick and shut down his ability to win clearance. He does not really read the ball off the hand like Parish does so he has to rely on blocking his opponent but sides worked out they can just move him sideways rather than fully engage . Even the Preston midfielders did it to him. I think he still has scope to play half forward or wing . Maybe half back but he is an instinct player and not a system based player and he is not the sharpest footy IQ going around. Also think he may still be a bit immature even though he is 22 and in his 4th season.


I would not say Harry has established himself as an AFL quality wing . He has shown he could have an impact but establish not for me. He can pinch hit there in the rotations but we need to get back to Duursma and Martin playing wing with Cox and Jones playing more cameo roles. Throw in Roberts as a wing / half back rotation.

Do not agree on Hobbs being too similar to Parish. Hobbs is not in because his outside game is limited . He is a little bulldog on the inside and can get into space but he does not break the lines like Parish can and he is an average kick and not the fastest decision maker when he is not see ball get ball. Caldwell and Durham are keeping Hobbs and Setterfield out of the side .

Agree with Tsatas , Bryan and Hayes . It is more physical development than anything else . Tsatas still has some kicking issues but they have managed to eliminate most of the horror kicks.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

When you're going to the pointy end of the draft you should be hoping to get more than just a decent player who might get to 200 games. I think it's reasonable to say that our performance overall in the first round of the draft since 2020 hasn't met expectations when we've had 5 picks either inside or just out of the top 10 across three years and none of them look like the sort of player that makes the difference between a winning or a losing season. We would have really been hoping at least one of the five would be that guy that changes the trajectory of a club almost by themselves.

Still time for someone in that cohort to take a big step forward but right now it's looking like we've missed the opportunity.

Right now it’s looking like a horror run of drafting and I think we’re possibly going to have to modify our strategy as a result. We need to get quality in now and the only way to really improve our chances of that is to get more picks. Caddy looks like a good one, but we need to stock up more.

I think it’s gonna take the trade of somebody like a Parish or a Redman. Perhaps even Ridley. Trading Stringer is a no brainer and you’d hope you could squeeze out a second-rounder for him. We need high picks because we’ve ****ed so many of them.

The alternative is just to sit here and hope Cox, Reid, Perkins, Hobbs, Tsatas turn into stars. When the evidence in front of us says otherwise.

 

[FootyGuru]

Perkins is interesting . I think his confidence is down and I think it is partially because he desperately wants to be a midfielder but has struggled with the reality it has not gone that way . His form slump is really because sides worked out his midfield trick and shut down his ability to win clearance. He does not really read the ball off the hand like Parish does so he has to rely on blocking his opponent but sides worked out they can just move him sideways rather than fully engage . Even the Preston midfielders did it to him. I think he still has scope to play half forward or wing . Maybe half back but he is an instinct player and not a system based player and he is not the sharpest footy IQ going around. Also think he may still be a bit immature even though he is 22 and in his 4th season.


I would not say Harry has established himself as an AFL quality wing . He has shown he could have an impact but establish not for me. He can pinch hit there in the rotations but we need to get back to Duursma and Martin playing wing with Cox and Jones playing more cameo roles. Throw in Roberts as a wing / half back rotation.

Do not agree on Hobbs being too similar to Parish. Hobbs is not in because his outside game is limited . He is a little bulldog on the inside and can get into space but he does not break the lines like Parish can and he is an average kick and not the fastest decision maker when he is not see ball get ball. Caldwell and Durham are keeping Hobbs and Setterfield out of the side .

Agree with Tsatas , Bryan and Hayes . It is more physical development than anything else . Tsatas still has some kicking issues but they have managed to eliminate most of the horror kicks.

I don’t think we lose much if we removed parish and replaced him with Hobbs, parish is cleaner with better touch, finds more outside ball, whereas Hobbs unlike parish is a lot tougher and is willing to stand up in tackles and give the footy. Both average kicks.
Id personally trade parish, think Caldwell and Durham have gone past him, I also don’t think parish adds a point of difference and isn’t good enough defensively or willing to be a role player as the 4th mid.

What could we get for him that we would consider?
Is a second round pick too light?
Is a top 10 pick too much?

 

[Yoda_]

Just our luck, we had 3 top 10's (8,9,10) during a covid year. Everyone was picking blind that year. Just yesterday we're playing a side, who in 2019 picked up both Young (7) and Serong (8).

This is what I was saying a few weeks ago,

Three top 10 picks. Covid impacted
Number 1 selection? No clear cut let alone generational talent (McGrath)
Two top 10 picks way back when? We needed mids and talent (not key forwards galore at the time, Weidemann, McKay, Curnow)

Just shit luck


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[Yoda_]

Think people have missed your point Bunk Moreland


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[ant555]

I don’t think we lose much if we removed parish and replaced him with Hobbs, parish is cleaner with better touch, finds more outside ball, whereas Hobbs unlike parish is a lot tougher and is willing to stand up in tackles and give the footy. Both average kicks.
Id personally trade parish, think Caldwell and Durham have gone past him, I also don’t think parish adds a point of difference and isn’t good enough defensively or willing to be a role player as the 4th mid.

What could we get for him that we would consider?
Is a second round pick too light?
Is a top 10 pick too much?

You do not have to convince me on Parish . I would have traded him when he had 1 year left on the last contract . Not because I think he is a dud but personally I think you can cover what he does . If we jumped then we would have got a first round pick .
I do not think about it much now as we will not do it but if he did get offered up we would be looking for something in the 5 to 15 range . No chance on the second round.
I still think Parish breaks the lines better than Hobbs ever will and he also has a really good understanding with Merrett on field.
Anyway my view is that boat has sailed so it is what it is.

 

[Zach Package]

I’m open to opinions, but I would suggest that it’s pretty optimistic to say four players who can’t currently get a game in a very average side will be ten year players.

Perhaps odds are that 1 or 2 will work out, but all of them?

I mean, plenty of Essendon players hang around for ten years doing absolutely nothing, so I guess there is that.

You’ve used Hawthorn as an example but yesterday they had 2 top 10 draft picks running around in the 2s in McKenzie and DGB, Ward is probably fringe and then Cooper Stevens and Seamus Mitchell are recent top 30 picks also not in the frame.

Not the best example to pick on?

 

[ant555]

If Hayden Young

26

Hayden Young

Age

23

Ht

189cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

D/M

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.0

3star

K

6.6

3star

HB

3.4

3star

M

3.2

3star

T

1.4

3star

MG

160.0

3star

D

10.0

3star

K

6.6

3star

HB

3.4

2star

M

3.2

3star

T

1.4

2star

MG

160.0

3star

D

10.0

3star

K

6.6

3star

HB

3.4

3star

M

3.2

4star

T

1.4

4star

MG

160.0

3star

ever wants to come home . Yes please.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

You’ve used Hawthorn as an example but yesterday they had 2 top 10 draft picks running around in the 2s in McKenzie and DGB, Ward is probably fringe and then Cooper Stevens and Seamus Mitchell are recent top 30 picks also not in the frame.

Not the best example to pick on?

Not talking about Hawthorn now. I was just citing them as they had a period where they completely sidestepped the top of the draft (Clarko thought he knew better) and it left their list in a burning pile. They quickly switched their approach when he left.

Our last 5 years could end up looking the same in effect, if not in intent. We didnt deprioritise the draft, but it’s looking like we may have just had a monumentally terrible run of poor picks that could leave us with very little to show for it.

I’m really not sure you can have so many misses and succeed. It’s a generation of players. At the moment we are largely being carried by guys in their prime (25yo - 30yo) and we’re not good enough. There’s not a group of stars coming after them. We loaded up and they’ve almost all been failures at this stage. Hopefully some come good, but it’s getting to the stage where it’s not looking good for Cox, Reid, Perkins, Hobbs and Tsatas.

 

[bombreys]

plenty of teams have decent players who get to 200 games.

Archie is 1/4 of the way there and was arguably the teams best player rd1 vs the hawks. Just in a form slump right now.

Harry has established himself as an afl standard wing this season and can’t even really play the position yet.

Hobbs is being held out of the best 23 by being too similar to Parish (who’s a former AA mid)

With Tsatas, Bryan and Hayes the questions were more about physical strength rather than anything else.

I don’t think having a long career = was a star. Just that you were a good best 22 player and there was no need to drop ya which allowed the team to invest pics in other areas

Think you’ve gone a bit over the top here - Merrett and Heppell are the only two players (excl Goldy) to have played 200 on our list. Playing 200 is a big effort.

Suggesting those 6 (5 of which can’t get a game in a side outside of the top 8) is an enormous and unrealistic call

 

[Zach Package]

Not talking about Hawthorn now. I was just citing them as they had a period where they completely sidestepped the top of the draft (Clarko thought he knew better) and it left their list in a burning pile. They quickly switched their approach when he left.

Our last 5 years could end up looking the same in effect, if not in intent. We didnt deprioritise the draft, but it’s looking like we may have just had a monumentally terrible run of poor picks that could leave us with very little to show for it.

I’m really not sure you can have so many misses and succeed. It’s a generation of players. At the moment we are largely being carried by guys in their prime (25yo - 30yo) and we’re not good enough. There’s not a group of stars coming after them. We loaded up and they’ve almost all been failures at this stage. Hopefully some come good, but it’s getting to the stage where it’s not looking good for Cox, Reid, Perkins, Hobbs and Tsatas.

That’s fair. Which is why it’s so important you get the development right, or else at least acknowledge that you can’t do it properly and then trade all your picks, no point in being half pregnant.

For what it’s worth I think all the players you listed above make it provided Reid’s body holds up. I’d be even more confident in them if Scott wasn’t coaching them.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

That’s fair. Which is why it’s so important you get the development right, or else at least acknowledge that you can’t do it properly and then trade all your picks, no point in being half pregnant.

For what it’s worth I think all the players you listed above make it provided Reid’s body holds up. I’d be even more confident in them if Scott wasn’t coaching them.

Yeah, hopefully they come good. Guess I’m just down on them at the moment. Some of these guys are in their fourth season now and aren’t even established senior players, let alone valuable contributors.

Reid is injury which will happen.

 

[Rick Ross]

Could we con Melbourne into coughing up a first rounder for 2mp? Maybe we send something back their way

Like an earlier first rounder to get it done?

 

[Dons4days]

I hope we're having a crack at Bergman, would slot perfectly into our back line.

 

[Howard Moon]

If Shiel wants to go to stk and we can't sway him I wouldn't mind taking a nibble at Caminiti, big strong aggressive tall fwd , good hands, nice kick, good age profile, will never get ahead of king so is in and out of the team.

 

[eth-dog]

Pass on Bergman. It's not that he's not good, but we don't need any more poor kicks in our back line

 

[eth-dog]

If Shiel wants to go to stk and we can't sway him I wouldn't mind taking a nibble at Caminiti, big strong aggressive tall fwd , good hands, nice kick, good age profile, will never get ahead of king so is in and out of the team.

There's no way they give us Caminiti for Shiel

 

[Beerfish]

There's no way they give us Caminiti for Shiel

He said just a nibble. Not the whole Caminiti.

 

[cAsEy_18]

And if the saints are potentially interested in laverde I wouldn’t mind seeing if we can get a little Laverde for Max King

12

Max King

Age

24

Ht

202cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.3

2star

K

4.7

2star

HB

2.6

2star

M

2.7

3star

T

0.7

3star

G

1.4

5star

D

7.3

2star

K

4.7

2star

HB

2.6

2star

M

2.7

3star

T

0.7

1star

G

1.4

5star

D

8.0

2star

K

5.2

2star

HB

2.8

3star

M

2.8

3star

T

0.6

3star

G

1.4

5star

action going.

 

[Howard Moon]

Carn.... Nobody talking straight swaps. There are things things called trade picks that can be exchanged for goods and services

 

[fairbump_playon]

Carn.... Nobody talking straight swaps. There are things things called trade picks that can be exchanged for goods and services

Highly fungible unlike tall forwards

 

[Snake Charmer]

Laverde + Shiel + future third for King + Caminiti + Phillipou

 

[P Money]

This is what I was saying a few weeks ago,

Three top 10 picks. Covid impacted
Number 1 selection? No clear cut let alone generational talent (McGrath)
Two top 10 picks way back when? We needed mids and talent (not key forwards galore at the time, Weidemann, McKay, Curnow)

Just shit luck


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Nah. Three top 10 picks in a Covid year and no clear cut #1 pick when we have it is an opportunity to get involved in some trading with other clubs. Have a look at the list of every Essendon first round pick since 2004 and you'll see that quite simply it's an embarrassing list of players. Shit luck has nothing to do with it.

 

[Snake Charmer]

Nah. Three top 10 picks in a Covid year and no clear cut #1 pick when we have it is an opportunity to get involved in some trading with other clubs. Have a look at the list of every Essendon first round pick since 2004 and you'll see that quite simply it's an embarrassing list of players. Shit luck has nothing to do with it.

Who was the last first round super star we hit on? People point at development but it works both way in my opinion.

 

[jdstorm]

Think you’ve gone a bit over the top here - Merrett and Heppell are the only two players (excl Goldy) to have played 200 on our list. Playing 200 is a big effort.

Suggesting those 6 (5 of which can’t get a game in a side outside of the top 8) is an enormous and unrealistic call

Our list isn’t perhaps the best example given the whole drugs saga and then later player exedous

When you're going to the pointy end of the draft you should be hoping to get more than just a decent player who might get to 200 games. I think it's reasonable to say that our performance overall in the first round of the draft since 2020 hasn't met expectations when we've had 5 picks either inside or just out of the top 10 across three years and none of them look like the sort of player that makes the difference between a winning or a losing season. We would have really been hoping at least one of the five would be that guy that changes the trajectory of a club almost by themselves.

Still time for someone in that cohort to take a big step forward but right now it's looking like we've missed the opportunity.

Statistically speaking from those pics including Caddy an average result would be 2 AA level players

I think there’s a lot still to play out. Seems like Tsatas and Caddy are the most likely with Reid next depending on his body