Recruiting AFL Trade & Free Agency XII - 💰💰💰

[Lore]

Quick links: Player Contract Status | Draft Watch 2023 | AFLW Draft, Trade & Sign

The embedded resources below are kept up to date by the trade board mods (as much as possible – we are human after all). Enjoy!

Spoiler: 2024 Draft Order

 

[Keystone agony]

I am clearly more ‘bird in the hand’ than some around here. In theory that all sounds swell provided it pans out like that.

In practise I’m more in favour of doing your work early and then getting on to other things. Harry Sharp sounds locked into Melbourne, we could have been in that conversation, Richmond have a ton of selections so I reckon we should be talking to them, Suns also very active and I’d be talking to them as well.

We could then pivot full attention to getting max return out of Stringer, whether that means talking to GWS about paying his salary in full or attaching one of our picks to get something back in return. Apparently we’ve spoken to Konstanty as well so if the door is even slightly open at the Swans there is a conversation there too.

You simply do not know whether we were or weren't in that conversation or not, thats an assumption

It also has zero to do with pick 9 and trading it now, as does Stringer and Kostanty (Glad hes been linked with us though)

Trading F1 and 9 doesn't get you a bird in the hand

 

[Keystone agony]

Absolute Fantasy to think of Tsatas as anything like Horne Francis. Horne Francis could bully SANFL players as a 17 year old.

That sort of physicality does not develop, it is innate. Pretty close to Horne Francis is still elite.

A realistic target for Tsatas would be Caldwell.

Even Caldwell was an aggressive, physical guy even though smaller

I see Tsatas as a Brad Crouch at the moment

 

[Keystone agony]

Another option:

Ask Draper if he is committing to a contract extension now. If he isn't and is thinking about a possible move to SA next year, then do it now.

Adelaide out: 4 and F1,
Essendon out: 9 , Draper and F2

Given the depth of this year's draft, Adelaide still have a top 10 pick, an F1 downgrade into a likely early second and a best 22 ruckman.
Adelaide will want to wait a year, but Port are a more attractive destination so it's risky for them. We still have the option of matching as well though that's not very likely.
---------------
Though not ideal, I personally would at the absolute bare minimum accept:

Adelaide: 4 + 46 + F2
Essendon: 9 + Draper

Gives us points for Kako + gives us another selection in a strong draft. Someone is bound to have an academy or F/S that we can trade our 2 F2s to for a 2025 1st.

Adelaide arent giving up anything for Draper when they get him for free in 12 months time

soon youll realise why we arent involved in much in the trade period

 

[Keystone agony]

Needs much less Gresham

Believe me... i wouldnt pick him but Scott will, definitely at the start of the season

I look forward to potentially at some stage next year seeing a forward line of Kostanty, Davey and Kako

 

[Bjchan13]

View attachment 2138380

Twomey reporting we have interest in konstanty - potentially as a DFA.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Nice addition for list balance

 

[JayJ20]

If you’re Adelaide, you don’t do that. The guy is a FA next year. As in, free. You don’t downgrade from 4 to 9 and future 1st to a future 2nd just to get him a year earlier.

Sure the argument could be made that it would be a “sure thing” this year if they got him, and minds change/anything can change in 12 months, nothing is guaranteed. But if I was them and that did happen, I’d just pivot to the next target. Not worth giving all that up.

Yes and that's fair enough like every team would for FAs, but my rationale behind it is that Adelaide's ruck stocks are among the worst in the league. No guarantee they can get a decent ruckman if they miss out on Draper as rucks take a long time to develop. Can't guarantee a good ruckman via trade.

They as a football club need to show something next year because another year down the bottom could leave players disillusioned. The coach almost certainly won't last.

If there was any draft worth trading back for a top 10 selection, it's this year's draft because you'll get a quality player at 9. There aren't any "clear cut top 5" etc.
Adelaide desperately need to add to their midfield and Smillie will likely be available. Murphy Reid and Sid Draper could also be available at that pick. Plenty of options for them at 9.

 

[Yoda_]

It is not obvious that this post is serious. But I assume it is.

For a start, why do you assume I am angry? I don't expect that people have read my posts and care enough to be able to summarise what I think but I doubt there is one surprise there (to anyone who does read). I also just assume that you're projecting the way you think about things on to me. There is not one 'person' I don't like, I don't know any of them. There are a number of players I do not rate and would get rid of as a priority. Heppell, for example, is someone I understand to be a really decent guy, but he sucks arse as a player. I would have traded him in his AA year, you can look that one up, and then it would be the destination club's fans would then be looking back on his career trying to understand how a good player's prime years ended at 23 in the absence of a single serious injury).

Then there is trading players 'just because the list doesn't function'? The list doesn't function because of the players, no? It's not like we can upload a software update.

'Unders' is also an interesting concept. There is no doubt that we would not get anything like the value we spent on a lot of those player. But you talk about it like cyclical economic factors hit and that the share price will bounce back. What your comment really is is an acknowledgment of how average the players are. You've accepted that we'd have to accept well under the value we paid to get rid of them. What does that really say about the players, that they are good and that we should be playing them?

When you break it down, as is the case with most things, it is no where near as extreme as it looks.

Look at Hobbs, as the first example. He's a slow hardball specialist who is on the small side and who is not a good endurance athlete. His kicking is average and he is 3 years in the system and hasn't even clearly showed that his best inside trick, initiating body contact when in possession of the ball, even works at AFL level. There is a clear warning sign there because it should be obvious that his best trick can translate to AFL level by now.

There are 2 spots in a team, at most, for slow inside mids and most teams have guys who are much more destructive (Cripps would be the extreme version). Look at the way Brodie can't get a game for his second team, a former pick 8, with a full season averaging pretty close to 30 a week. What did Brodie get traded for? Or look at the way one of Parker and Adams was squeezed from Sydney's team this season.

As for Tsatas, there is no evidence that players with his level of kicking deficiency ever really improve. His kicking deficiency is closer to Dylan Clark than it is Jobe, for example. We know that because Jobe could hit them 60m, not struggle to kick the ball 40m. Tsatas was considered worthy of pick 5 (or whatever pick we used on him) because of his ability to spread from the contest, a Rozee-like player who was perhaps a little stronger inside than Rozee. Who needs a running player that can't kick? I hear and read a lot about Tsatas' size. My point of comparison for Tsatas' is Laverde and Langford who could bully VFL players in their second years, Laverde in particular. Tastas can barley free himself to do anything with the ball inside. Tsatas the first touch inside AFL player is a fantasy at this stgae. You'd spent 3 more seasons trying to work out if he is AFL standard. His value will well and truly have tanked by then.

As for Martin, I wouldn't need him and could trade him for value. I think we also need to read between the lines a bit with Martin. Moved to the one place where his front running would not expose the team and all we really got from it was to rob ourselves of Redman's ball use which is infinitely better than Martin's. Give me Laverde in the defensive role occupied by Redman and Redman in Martin's role at half back any time. I'd also have D'Ambrosio, a player who actually hits targets, plus what is very likely a first round pick because Martin is a very well regarded player.

What else is even controversial? We have 1 best 22 player and 2 fringe players. Parish? No one even wants him, so the flaw in my position is assuming I can get anything for him. Doesn't say much about the player, though, does it? What's the argument for playing a player the rest of the competition thinks so little of?

people don't want to acknowledge that the idea of moving on Hobbs or Tsatas is that we are hamstrung by the previous list management regime by locking in Parish to 6 years.

May as well try and get some collateral for a 3rd year Tsatas or 4th year Hobbs than a 7th year Parish who has been injured for 60% of the time in the last 12 months.


People are so scared of bottoming out they dont want to acknowledge that we are ****** with the make up of the midfield group. Unless someone like Merret or Parish puts there hand up to shift out of the starting midfield we really are going no where to allow Hobbs or Tsatas the midfield time the one dimension they do provide is given the opportunity to succeed at AFL level.

 

[Howard Moon]

The media seem to think we are standing still and risk being overtaken - like in their minds teams flow a linear path and we just missed the 8 so we should naturally progress to just making the 8.

If we did this we would be following the same old trodden path.

To Brunos argument that nothings changed I'd say the change in not buckling to stringer and laverde on longer deals, retiring Kelly and hepp, and cutting hind (and potentially weird) should show enough of a change of mindset. It won't bear fruit immediately on field but it shows a different intent off it.

I'd expect we tumble down the ladder next year and the club won't really mind as we will preach a youthful movement.

 

[Yoda_]

If there was any draft worth trading back for a top 10 selection, it's this year's draft because you'll get a quality player at 9. There aren't any "clear cut top 5" etc.
Adelaide desperately need to add to their midfield and Smillie will likely be available. Murphy Reid and Sid Draper could also be available at that pick. Plenty of options for them at 9.

IMHO, I would go one of three ways;

(1) move 9 into a combination of later picks. Acknowledge we won't get a second top 10 talent (Kako + 9)
(2) Move 9 into the future and take Kako + two 2025 first rounders
(3) try and maximise the quantity of picks in a supposed deep draft. Accept our second gets absolved by a Kako bid and any subsequent picks but try to finish with 2 - 3 picks inside 40 (+ Kako)
(4) Accept whatever happens happens. If Kako is bid before 9 leave him, take a player with our pick 9, then 31 and move on

Maybe looking to patter out our picks into bulk top 40 picks may work, doubtful but maybe an option

 

[Yoda_]

The media seem to think we are standing still and risk being overtaken - like in their minds teams flow a linear path and we just missed the 8 so we should naturally progress to just making the 8.

If we did this we would be following the same old trodden path.

To Brunos argument that nothings changed I'd say the change in not buckling to stringer and laverde on longer deals, retiring Kelly and hepp, and cutting hind (and potentially weird) should show enough of a change of mindset. It won't bear fruit immediately on field but it shows a different intent off it.

I'd expect we tumble down the ladder next year and the club won't really mind as we will preach a youthful movement.

When reading it like that, maybe things may be changing.

 

[JayJ20]

people don't want to acknowledge that the idea of moving on Hobbs or Tsatas is that we are hamstrung by the previous list management regime by locking in Parish to 6 years.

May as well try and get some collateral for a 3rd year Tsatas or 4th year Hobbs than a 7th year Parish who has been injured for 60% of the time in the last 12 months.


People are so scared of bottoming out they dont want to acknowledge that we are ****** with the make up of the midfield group. Unless someone like Merret or Parish puts there hand up to shift out of the starting midfield we really are going no where to allow Hobbs or Tsatas the midfield time the one dimension they do provide is given the opportunity to succeed at AFL level.

This is why a list strategy is so important. With a strategy, you can give something decent up for the betterment of the overall list and the future.

I wouldn't trade Tsatas yet because there is potential of him complementing our midfield, but Hobbs is very clearly surplus to our list needs now that we committed to Parish. He'd only work as depth and will likely be playing out of position most of next year. Richmond were sniffing around and we could do something like:

Hobbs + 9 to Richmond for 6 and a second/third. Richmond and St Kilda are our biggest threats for a Kako bid and that would almost certainly ensure our first is before the bid. Would have worked better before Richmond traded their suite of picks to Brisbane because I don't think Richmond will accept to trade a second.

 

[ant555]

people don't want to acknowledge that the idea of moving on Hobbs or Tsatas is that we are hamstrung by the previous list management regime by locking in Parish to 6 years.

May as well try and get some collateral for a 3rd year Tsatas or 4th year Hobbs than a 7th year Parish who has been injured for 60% of the time in the last 12 months.


People are so scared of bottoming out they dont want to acknowledge that we are ****** with the make up of the midfield group. Unless someone like Merret or Parish puts there hand up to shift out of the starting midfield we really are going no where to allow Hobbs or Tsatas the midfield time the one dimension they do provide is given the opportunity to succeed at AFL level.

No people just do not agree with your opinion. We do not have to acknowledge anything.

 

[ant555]

This is why a list strategy is so important. With a strategy, you can give something decent up for the betterment of the overall list and the future.

I wouldn't trade Tsatas yet because there is potential of him complementing our midfield, but Hobbs is very clearly surplus to our list needs now that we committed to Parish. He'd only work as depth and will likely be playing out of position most of next year. Richmond were sniffing around and we could do something like:

Hobbs + 9 to Richmond for 6 and a second/third. Richmond and St Kilda are our biggest threats for a Kako bid and that would almost certainly ensure our first is before the bid. Would have worked better before Richmond traded their suite of picks to Brisbane because I don't think Richmond will accept to trade a second.

Given Hobbs is a totally different player I fail to see how Parish make him redundant. If you selling Hobbs as no longer needed then it is Caldwell and Durham who are blocking him. Of course Merrett and Parish could also play other roles and if Parish cops another year like the last two we can easily move him out for cheap and pay some of his wage.

 

[FootyGuru]

Why do people continue to talk about the past. Let’s look forward.

We have pick 9 in a deep draft and likely to get kako who’s a top 20 prospect in a desperate position of need with our second pick.

Our best players bar Merrett are all 25 and under. It might be a lean year coming up but I think it’s for the best.
By the end of next season we should know where we stand with a lot of our youth.

Anyone think Konstanty could play a role from round 1 next year?

 

[Beerfish]

People are so scared of bottoming out

You've been talking about bottoming out for a while now probably safe in the knowledge it won't actually happen because if it did YOU would be one of the one's on here every week absolutely losing your shit that we can't even win a game let alone a final.

 

[Old Campaigner]

people don't want to acknowledge that the idea of moving on Hobbs or Tsatas is that we are hamstrung by the previous list management regime by locking in Parish to 6 years.

May as well try and get some collateral for a 3rd year Tsatas or 4th year Hobbs than a 7th year Parish who has been injured for 60% of the time in the last 12 months.


People are so scared of bottoming out they dont want to acknowledge that we are ****** with the make up of the midfield group. Unless someone like Merret or Parish puts there hand up to shift out of the starting midfield we really are going no where to allow Hobbs or Tsatas the midfield time the one dimension they do provide is given the opportunity to succeed at AFL level.

Parish is one player on a generous deal, he's not holding the entire list back. If our developing midfielders go past him he'll probably play a bunch of VFL and request a trade with years to run on his contract. If they don't go past him we've got an AFL standard midfielder we have no ready replacement for. Giving him 6 years was dumb and almost certainly unnecessary but it's not the reason we suck, it's just a symptom.

There's bottoming out and there's letting go of a bunch of players that can't be replaced via the first few rounds of the draft. We have a lot of players who are probably lucky to be on an AFL list, players who no one would trade for. Those guys get replaced from the back end of the draft, and 95% of the time the replacements via those late picks get delisted without playing a game. That takes us backwards.

Next year provides better opportunities with Draper potentially leaving via free agency and a couple of out of contract players who might be worth a halfway useful pick. Plus we'll know more about the developing players and be in a better position to decide whether they have a future with us or we shop them around too.

People (you in particular) consistently fail to acknowledge that rebuilding the list takes a long long time. We're two years into what could take 5 or so years more. We're in a worse position than nearly every other club in that we've also needed to drag the football department into the modern era and build more or less from scratch a culture that is conducive to finals quality football, all while dealing with factions and personality politics actively trying to prevent the necessary changes from taking hold.

 

[Old Campaigner]

Why do people continue to talk about the past. Let’s look forward.

We have pick 9 in a deep draft and likely to get kako who’s a top 20 prospect in a desperate position of need with our second pick.

Our best players bar Merrett are all 25 and under. It might be a lean year coming up but I think it’s for the best.
By the end of next season we should know where we stand with a lot of our youth.

Anyone think Konstanty could play a role from round 1 next year?

I knows? People just love to have a whinge I guess. Not happy unless they're not happy.

As you say, if we can turn a 1st, a 2nd and a few rats and mice later into effectively two first round picks in a good draft that is a massive win. For all the whinging about a quiet trade period, we kinda don't have to make big moves except to ensure we retain a first round pick in the event of an early bid for Kako. Maybe take a project ruck with our third pick and call it a night.

I'm not super optimistic about Konstanty. The Swans are great at getting the best out of players so it does beg the question why they're moving him on. Maybe it's just shortage of list spots rather than the quality of the player. In saying that I think it could still be worth giving him a year or two since he was quite highly rated in his draft year.

 

[JayJ20]

Given Hobbs is a totally different player I fail to see how Parish make him redundant. If you selling Hobbs as no longer needed then it is Caldwell and Hobbs who are blocking him. Of course Merrett and Parish could also play other roles and if Parish cops another year like the last two we can easily move him out for cheap and pay some of his wage.

It's not that Parish and Hobbs are exactly the same player, but it's that Parish along with the others will keep Hobbs out of the midfield especially if we start playing Tsatas at AFL level. I think Tsatas has the higher ceiling so I prefer to trade Hobbs so we can get ahead of a bid and recruit a player like Lalor. End result is that we have two top 10 picks (if Kako is bid on in the top 10) and our future first next year for a player that will most likely be clear cut best 22 moving forward.

We need to be more aggressive in turning over and balancing our list and I think this is a fairly simple way of doing so.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Value above replacement players is a thing

For instance at times last year our defence had McKay Lav Kelly Hepp Redman McGrath

That’s 5 pretty bad kicks/users

Based on rumours our VFL defence this year would be Weid Hayes Rotham Prior Saad and draft pick

That’s 4 better kicks then guys that got significant AFL minutes last year

(Assuming AFL defense is McKay Reid Ridley Redman McGrath Roberts Cox)

Last year mids struggled with size/durability and at the very least we’re adding a 188cm former top 5 pick who’s been killing it in the VFL and now has an afl ready body

In addition we likely add 1-2 more fringe afl/vfl guys that size to add depth to that group so if Tsatas or Durham or Setters or whoever is out injured/suspended the midfield still has physical presence should be a much better contested group because of it.

Wings started to solidify last year as Martin, Dursma, Jones and will be able to support if one of those guys gets hurt/misses games when we bring in more running power. Vs Having no backup for Dursma last year and Martin out of position all year.

Forward line Jake out for a faster player will be addition by subtraction, and Caddy year 2 will be more of a threat. Contract year Draper being a pest as ruck forward with solid backups in Wright/Goldy if there’s injuries there

All bodes well I think anyway

Look admire the optimism but I can’t really get around it, a significantly better season and the only factor of note you seem to be referencing is we’ll have Tsatas.

We had Tsatas this year, he played 19 games (VFL and AFL) and showed absolutely nothing at senior level. Hope he improves and id be happy to throw him in but I really have no idea where he gets significant midfield minutes after Merrett, Durham, Caldwell, Parish. That’s before we even get started on Hobbs. Shiel was playing ahead of him this season too.

It will probably take significant injury to others for it to happen, in which case he’ll just be backfilling lost productivity.

We drafted Tsatas and Hobbs… and then Durham and Caldwell became prime movers, so we now have a glut.

Our list is in a hell of a spot.

Anyway hopefully I’m wrong and you’re right.

 

[Yoda_]

You've been talking about bottoming out for a while now probably safe in the knowledge it won't actually happen because if it did YOU would be one of the one's on here every week absolutely losing your shit that we can't even win a game let alone a final.

what a shit thing to say. If we bottomed out, were seeing improvements, not just from the kids but from some semi established players I would be fine. This perpetual motion of mediocrity has gripped supporters and instilled a sense of fear that bottoming out is for loser clubs.

Ive been on record to say we have some pretty good pieces in position, if we had the balls to make some bold moves now, our 3 - 5 year window could be bought forward a year or even two if Rosa had the guts to make some tough calls.


dont ever think you know what I would do. You don't

 

[Yoda_]

Parish is one player on a generous deal, he's not holding the entire list back. If our developing midfielders go past him he'll probably play a bunch of VFL and request a trade with years to run on his contract. If they don't go past him we've got an AFL standard midfielder we have no ready replacement for. Giving him 6 years was dumb and almost certainly unnecessary but it's not the reason we suck, it's just a symptom.

There's bottoming out and there's letting go of a bunch of players that can't be replaced via the first few rounds of the draft. We have a lot of players who are probably lucky to be on an AFL list, players who no one would trade for. Those guys get replaced from the back end of the draft, and 95% of the time the replacements via those late picks get delisted without playing a game. That takes us backwards.

Next year provides better opportunities with Draper potentially leaving via free agency and a couple of out of contract players who might be worth a halfway useful pick. Plus we'll know more about the developing players and be in a better position to decide whether they have a future with us or we shop them around too.

People (you in particular) consistently fail to acknowledge that rebuilding the list takes a long long time. We're two years into what could take 5 or so years more. We're in a worse position than nearly every other club in that we've also needed to drag the football department into the modern era and build more or less from scratch a culture that is conducive to finals quality football, all while dealing with factions and personality politics actively trying to prevent the necessary changes from taking hold.

We dont bottom out though, this is the problem. I would welcome it if it meant we were trying out kids rather than bringing in more c grade talent like Gresham. Sink or swim time not the rubbish we have dished up over a long period of time.

 

[ghostdog]

The media seem to think we are standing still and risk being overtaken - like in their minds teams flow a linear path and we just missed the 8 so we should naturally progress to just making the 8.

If we did this we would be following the same old trodden path.

To Brunos argument that nothings changed I'd say the change in not buckling to stringer and laverde on longer deals, retiring Kelly and hepp, and cutting hind (and potentially weird) should show enough of a change of mindset. It won't bear fruit immediately on field but it shows a different intent off it.

I'd expect we tumble down the ladder next year and the club won't really mind as we will preach a youthful movement.

More than happy to take a tumble!

 

[Keystone agony]

It's not that Parish and Hobbs are exactly the same player, but it's that Parish along with the others will keep Hobbs out of the midfield especially if we start playing Tsatas at AFL level. I think Tsatas has the higher ceiling so I prefer to trade Hobbs so we can get ahead of a bid and recruit a player like Lalor. End result is that we have two top 10 picks (if Kako is bid on in the top 10) and our future first next year for a player that will most likely be clear cut best 22 moving forward.

We need to be more aggressive in turning over and balancing our list and I think this is a fairly simple way of doing so.

You keep going

No one is taking Hobbs and pick 9 for pick 1, which is the only way you can guarantee Lalor

Still yet to come up with anything, save your time. There is nothing

Focus your energy into praying a bid doesnt come in the top 8

Hobbs has also said he doesnt want to leave

Until a player from the club comes out and says theyre exploring options i dont want to see these stupid unrealistic hypotheticals. Stringer, Shiel, Lav is it

 

[Beerfish]

what a shit thing to say

Yeah no worries. My bad for biting. I'll just go back to rolling my eyes and scrolling on.

 

[Keystone agony]

We dont need ZMerrett or Parish to put their hand up and say they want to play a different role. They will be told to do so, if thats what we want.