Play Nice AFL Womens - General Discussion

[SBD Gonzalez]

Something that struck me was the high proportion of GAY/Lesbian players in the league who are quite open about their sexuality
I wonder if this will eventually impact on young girls wanting to play?

I wonder if this will eventually have an impact on gay male AFL players deciding to be likewise quite open.

 

[Supercoach Bargain]

I

Tayla Harris .....some of the best marks i've seen at any level

The kid is 19-20? Give her some time to learn.

A KPP in her first year, getting double teamed. She has a big upside.

 

[citizen-erased]

I like the idea of naming the mvp after Erin Phillips given her efforts this season and on gf day

 

[iameviljez]

I like the idea of naming the mvp after Erin Phillips given her efforts this season and on gf day

True, but there's no rush. Wait till she's retired and there's a few other competitors for the naming rights in the book.

 

[Easton Thighs]

Yeah, no need to rush these things. Name it after someone who's had a profound, long-lasting effect in the game and has served it well. West Coast only recently named their best and fairest award after John Worsfold. This is after 20+ years. Not saying to wait 20 years but the right person, right time will come up imo.

 

[Caputo]

Something I felt refreshing from On the Couch with 'Dads and Daughters'. I was the way pay was discussed. This was in stark contrast to other Australian sports.

Erin Phillips openly discussed pay. $8500 for AFLW and $US110,000 for WNBA. I know there was wage bandings for players picked. Marquees, Priority, Rookie.
So Erin Phillips and Kate Sheahan were on equal pay as Rookies.

 

[ijaxcat]

give the girls a chance-

they are in the first year of their competition and nowhere near a fully professional operation yet and most of them have not had a fair dinkum pre season. as well as a mix of players from other sports and geographical locations. the teams had not played together as a unit before this season.

they have not got the same physical characteristics of AFL players so the game will never be the same type of spectacle and IMO it is unfair to compare. they show just as much desire, hunger and bravery for the contest though as their male counterparts, the skill level is obviously nowhere near that of Bontempelli, Hogan, Fyfe, Dangerfield etc. but you wouldn't expect it to be.

given 3-5 years to gain traction i am sure that AFLW competition will improve significantly and get a similar type of support as say the netball.

Why just name a few AFL players? Obviously they are nowhere near any male players from much lower grades than AFL.
And that is the point, we cannot do comparisons. I enjoy watching AFLW, I understand there is men's sport and women's sport and never the twain
shall meet.
I could go to a suburban div 4 reserves and see a better game, but that is not the point.
The danger comes when those involved start to say silly things and make comparisons. For example, Sam Lane saying how the men's team can learn
from the women's team. Kate Sheahan saying she had done something her father had always wanted to do. That one had me wondering why Mike had
wanted to play women's footy. You see Kate,it is not the same thing. Let's enjoy it, but don't try to build it into something it's not.
Another funny example from the Storm v Cronulla game in the NRL. A Cronulla player marked the ball overhead with 2 bites, it bounced off his hands
went about 2 feet in the air and he caught it on the way down. This had the commentator in raptures, declaring that perhaps AFL teams would be after
him. Hilarious.

 

[M Malice]

Why just name a few AFL players? Obviously they are nowhere near any male players from much lower grades than AFL.
And that is the point, we cannot do comparisons. I enjoy watching AFLW, I understand there is men's sport and women's sport and never the twain
shall meet.
I could go to a suburban div 4 reserves and see a better game, but that is not the point.
The danger comes when those involved start to say silly things and make comparisons. For example, Sam Lane saying how the men's team can learn
from the women's team. Kate Sheahan saying she had done something her father had always wanted to do. That one had me wondering why Mike had
wanted to play women's footy. You see Kate,it is not the same thing. Let's enjoy it, but don't try to build it into something it's not.
Another funny example from the Storm v Cronulla game in the NRL. A Cronulla player marked the ball overhead with 2 bites, it bounced off his hands
went about 2 feet in the air and he caught it on the way down. This had the commentator in raptures, declaring that perhaps AFL teams would be after
him. Hilarious.

i agree with all that ijaxcat, i love the local footy as well and have been to games in the scenic rim area that would be what many would call of a very low standard but i enjoy it all the same. the aspect of our game i love the most is the intensity and the continual contest for the ball. the womens game can provide that but we agree in that the skill level ie. basic by hand and foot disposal, from the large majority of the players is of a pretty low standard ATM.

 

[hawkgal02]

Does anyone know what happens around maternity leave in AFLW?
I know it's obviously not an issue at the moment because it's only the first season, but going forward I'm interested to know what the deal is?

 

[radiojake]

It'll be an interesting case, for sure :

I'd hazard a guess that the vast majority of players would wait until their sporting career was over before having children, as they'd have to take 12 - 18 months off at minimum

 

[jatz14]

It'll be an interesting case, for sure :

I'd hazard a guess that the vast majority of players would wait until their sporting career was over before having children, as they'd have to take 12 - 18 months off at minimum

Dana Hooker won Freo's best and fairest, and had a baby 5 months before preseason started.

I would assume she was back in training herself before then.

The deal allows for a traveling child minder (in Dana's case her husband).

Sent from my XT1068 using Tapatalk

 

[radiojake]

cool I didn't know that

How many mothers (who gave birth) were playing in the AFLW this season?

 

[WaynesWorld19]

 

[WaynesWorld19]

 

[WaynesWorld19]

 

[WaynesWorld19]

 

[jatz14]

Wasn't sure where to mention this.

What are the implications down the road for the female players, from the recent Cricket pay deal?

This deal highlight what I have been arguing for a while.

While there is an overall economic limit to female pay, this has almost no linkage to what the women's competition earns.

The pool for female players wages in cricket has increased by $50 mill. Top players are now going to be looking at $200k wages.

There is almost no chance of the women's comp pulling in enough money to pay this.

This almost certainly does not come at the expense of male player payment, but from CA funds.

What I am certain did not happen, and what has not happened and will not happen in the AFL, is that revenue from the women's comp is tallied up, and used as the basis of calculating women's pay.

My prediction is that within a few years, the top female players will be on full time wages, despite people protesting 'but but gate receipts' etc.


Sent from my XT1068 using Tapatalk

 

[BringBackTorps]

Wasn't sure where to mention this.

What are the implications down the road for the female players, from the recent Cricket pay deal?

This deal highlight what I have been arguing for a while.

While there is an overall economic limit to female pay, this has almost no linkage to what the women's competition earns.

The pool for female players wages in cricket has increased by $50 mill. Top players are now going to be looking at $200k wages.

There is almost no chance of the women's comp pulling in enough money to pay this.

This almost certainly does not come at the expense of male player payment, but from CA funds.

What I am certain did not happen, and what has not happened and will not happen in the AFL, is that revenue from the women's comp is tallied up, and used as the basis of calculating women's pay.

My prediction is that within a few years, the top female players will be on full time wages, despite people protesting 'but but gate receipts' etc.


Sent from my XT1068 using Tapatalk

Can you advise what the total wages, pa, for the female cricketers' pool from now on will be? Average no. of matches to be played? Divided amongst how many players?
Same questions, but for last year?

Was the main driver the female cricket WBBL TV ratings & rights? Other reasons provided?

I seem to recall that, on average, AFLW matches rated better than female average cricket ratings -is that your recollection?

Some competitive tension may start to emerge between the AFLW & WBBL!

 

[NoobPie]

Can you advise what the total wages, pa, for the female cricketers' pool from now on will be? Average no. of matches to be played? Divided amongst how many players?
Same questions, but for last year?

Was the main driver the female cricket WBBL TV ratings & rights? Other reasons provided?

I seem to recall that, on average, AFLW matches rated better than female average cricket ratings -is that your recollection?

Some competitive tension may start to emerge between the AFLW & WBBL!

The revenue mix for women's cricket would be similar to aflw...ie pretty much all sponsorship and little if any gate or broadcast at this stage

Presumably the tpp will average $10m a year over the five years...

It seems the state cricketers will in crease up to 27k and big bash to 11k

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...-record-pay-deal-as-huge-step-for-womens-game

 

[jatz14]

Can you advise what the total wages, pa, for the female cricketers' pool from now on will be? Average no. of matches to be played? Divided amongst how many players?
Same questions, but for last year?

Was the main driver the female cricket WBBL TV ratings & rights? Other reasons provided?

I seem to recall that, on average, AFLW matches rated better than female average cricket ratings -is that your recollection?

Some competitive tension may start to emerge between the AFLW & WBBL!

Its really hard to compare as the structure of cricket is totally different to football. Also, the new deal stipulates the player pool, but I do not think it is yet big on detail. The actual contracts haven't been written yet. Cricket also has the international component, I am not sure what, if anything Cricket Australia got out of the recent womens ICC in England, however the players still need to be paid.
Edit: That the player pool has had an eight fold increase is an indication.

This is the element that shows up the argument of people saying female footballers shouldn't be paid, as the league doesn't make a profit yet. If CA sends the Australian womens team on a tour, and that tour is not going to make Australian cricket any money. CA would be laughed at if they said this team, which they would expect to represent Australia professionally, was not going to be paid. Likewise, the idea that a club like Collingwood, or Carlton, expecting female players to represent their brand in a professional and competitive manner, could then say, but as they are not making a profit, we will not pay them, is ludicrous. Note that I am not suggesting these clubs would not pay them, I suspect they would pay more if not constrained by the cap.

Something is being worked out in the system of big professional team sport in Australia, and that is the value of womens comps to these sports, and the appropriate pay to represent that value, and its important to note that the value is only very loosely tied to revenue. I think no one really has a clear understanding of what that value is, or how to base pay on it.

One way to guess at a value is to imagine a hypothetical 7 or 8 years down the track. The AFLW has continued to grow, and keeps getting respectable ratings and crowds, an increased number of teams, and a regular and prominent place in the media cycle, ditto womens cricket, with regular TV coverage of womens internationals and tournaments. Lets also pretend the FFA has got of its arse and started really promoting the W-league and the Matildas. However, poor old League has dragged its feet and still does not have a high standard national professional womens comp, while womens AFL is spreading through NSW and Qld. What does this cost the NRL, in terms of image, profile, public perception, marketability, grass roots etc. How long until commercial sponsors start demanding a womens comp (if they haven't already).

I think there is zero possibility the NRL do not have something up well before then, because I am betting they have already pondered this hypothetical, and do not like the outcome. What would they be willing to spend to prevent this outcome? That is an approximate measure of that comps value.

You are also right to suggest competitive tension could play a big part in setting that level. Ironically, I wouldn't be surprised at overshoot, that competition between the sports for primacy in female sport, and a lack of clear valuation leads to them being paid overs.

 

[The_Wookie]

Wasn't sure where to mention this.

What are the implications down the road for the female players, from the recent Cricket pay deal?

This deal highlight what I have been arguing for a while.

While there is an overall economic limit to female pay, this has almost no linkage to what the women's competition earns.

The pool for female players wages in cricket has increased by $50 mill. Top players are now going to be looking at $200k wages.

There is almost no chance of the women's comp pulling in enough money to pay this.

This almost certainly does not come at the expense of male player payment, but from CA funds.

What I am certain did not happen, and what has not happened and will not happen in the AFL, is that revenue from the women's comp is tallied up, and used as the basis of calculating women's pay.

My prediction is that within a few years, the top female players will be on full time wages, despite people protesting 'but but gate receipts' etc.


Sent from my XT1068 using Tapatalk

i expect it will happen in the 2019 deal negotiations. The present situation was always temporary, hence a two year arrangement instead of the 5-6 year deals the men sign.

 

[NoobPie]

Its really hard to compare as the structure of cricket is totally different to football. Also, the new deal stipulates the player pool, but I do not think it is yet big on detail. The actual contracts haven't been written yet. Cricket also has the international component, I am not sure what, if anything Cricket Australia got out of the recent womens ICC in England, however the players still need to be paid.
Edit: That the player pool has had an eight fold increase is an indication.

This is the element that shows up the argument of people saying female footballers shouldn't be paid, as the league doesn't make a profit yet. If CA sends the Australian womens team on a tour, and that tour is not going to make Australian cricket any money. CA would be laughed at if they said this team, which they would expect to represent Australia professionally, was not going to be paid. Likewise, the idea that a club like Collingwood, or Carlton, expecting female players to represent their brand in a professional and competitive manner, could then say, but as they are not making a profit, we will not pay them, is ludicrous. Note that I am not suggesting these clubs would not pay them, I suspect they would pay more if not constrained by the cap.

Something is being worked out in the system of big professional team sport in Australia, and that is the value of womens comps to these sports, and the appropriate pay to represent that value, and its important to note that the value is only very loosely tied to revenue. I think no one really has a clear understanding of what that value is, or how to base pay on it.

One way to guess at a value is to imagine a hypothetical 7 or 8 years down the track. The AFLW has continued to grow, and keeps getting respectable ratings and crowds, an increased number of teams, and a regular and prominent place in the media cycle, ditto womens cricket, with regular TV coverage of womens internationals and tournaments. Lets also pretend the FFA has got of its arse and started really promoting the W-league and the Matildas. However, poor old League has dragged its feet and still does not have a high standard national professional womens comp, while womens AFL is spreading through NSW and Qld. What does this cost the NRL, in terms of image, profile, public perception, marketability, grass roots etc. How long until commercial sponsors start demanding a womens comp (if they haven't already).

I think there is zero possibility the NRL do not have something up well before then, because I am betting they have already pondered this hypothetical, and do not like the outcome. What would they be willing to spend to prevent this outcome? That is an approximate measure of that comps value.

You are also right to suggest competitive tension could play a big part in setting that level. Ironically, I wouldn't be surprised at overshoot, that competition between the sports for primacy in female sport, and a lack of clear valuation leads to them being paid overs.

Looking at this through a strategic lens, I think that the afl should go harder earlier. While cricket is a marginal competitor (in terms of players) there is no chance that rugby league and Australian soccer at least could ever hope to keep up. Assuming a 12 team comp in 2019, $10m would provide close to a $30k per player on average. Then it's a question of distributions and minimum salaries. Do you increase the length of the season when you add new teams or do keep it as a short preseason and then the women continue to play state comps during the regular season? Lengthening the season has the effect of further increasing costs without adding much at all to revenues

 

[Gigantor]

While we won't be able to match the female cricketers for a very long time, there will be an immediate impact in terms of at least progressively trying to narrow the gap.

A key point is that 12 clubs mean a total of at least 300 professional players while the number of female cricketers would be below half that.

Also in terms of matching revenue and expenses, the AFL Women's has a very good chance of doing that almost immediately and being completely self-funded.

 

[Kwality]

Dollars in the cricket deal for the girls:

It's good news for women's sport

The deal is going to see the biggest pay rise in the history of women's sport in Australia, according to ACA chief Alistair Nicholson.

Female player payments will increase from $7.5 million to $55.2 million.

For international women's cricketers that will see the base rate go from $40,000 to $72,076 in the first year.

That's a whopping 80.2 per cent increase.

That will go up again 119 per cent in its final year to $87,609.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-08-03/cricket-pay-deal-explained/8771988?section=sport

 

[Gigantor]

$72,000 per annum is a decent average wage for a female team sport. It will take a while for the AFL Women's to reach that sort of level, but that should be the aim.