Play Nice AFL Womens - General Discussion

[spooner21]

Hi All

Has anyone done a mock draft of the AFLW draft for Monday night? If so, can you please share? I haven't seen anything on the internet.

Here's my totally unqualified attempt at the first two rounds:

Selection	Pick Holder	Selection
1	Western Bulldogs	K.Weston-Turner
2	West Coast Eagles	J.Rentsch
3	GWS Giants	K.Shroj
4	Western Bulldogs	A.Pisano
5	Brisbane Lions	E.Long (Bid Matched)
6	Melbourne	B.Barwick
7	Western Bulldogs	M.Williamson
8	Carlton	C.Buttifant
9	Collingwood	E.Grigg
10	Collingwood	L.Keck
11	St Kilda	G.Clark
12	Western Bulldogs	C.Adams
13	Geelong Cats	B.O'Rourke (Bid Matched)
14	Melbourne	S.Grunden
15	Richmond	E.Slocombe
16	West Coast Eagles	K.Kavanagh
17	Sydney Swans	A.Raison
18	Hawthorn	I.Bacon
19	Port Adelaide	P.Window
20	Melbourne	J.Rigoni (Bid Matched)
21	Essendon	L.Jordan
22	Brisbane Lions	J.Ramsdale
23	Adelaide	B.Boileau
24	Port Adelaide	J.Baldwick
25	North Melbourne	E.Gough
26	Adelaide	M.Staunton
27	North Melbourne	A.Brook
28	Carlton	C.Mason
29	Collingwood	K.Whiley
30	Sydney Swans	J.McCabe
31	Brisbane Lions	T.Henry
32	Geelong Cats	A.Schutte
33	Adelaide	Z.Walsh
34	Brisbane Lions	S.Peters
35	Gold Coast Suns	S.McMullen
36	Brisbane Lions	R.Crozier
37	Essendon	G.Stubs
38	West Coast Eagles	G.Cleaver
39	GWS Giants	M.Robertson
40	Melbourne	B.Lyne

 

[jatz14]

Here's my totally unqualified attempt at the first two rounds:

Selection	Pick Holder	Selection
1	Western Bulldogs	K.Weston-Turner
2	West Coast Eagles	J.Rentsch
3	GWS Giants	K.Shroj
4	Western Bulldogs	A.Pisano
5	Brisbane Lions	E.Long (Bid Matched)
6	Melbourne	B.Barwick
7	Western Bulldogs	M.Williamson
8	Carlton	C.Buttifant
9	Collingwood	E.Grigg
10	Collingwood	L.Keck
11	St Kilda	G.Clark
12	Western Bulldogs	C.Adams
13	Geelong Cats	B.O'Rourke (Bid Matched)
14	Melbourne	S.Grunden
15	Richmond	E.Slocombe
16	West Coast Eagles	K.Kavanagh
17	Sydney Swans	A.Raison
18	Hawthorn	I.Bacon
19	Port Adelaide	P.Window
20	Melbourne	J.Rigoni (Bid Matched)
21	Essendon	L.Jordan
22	Brisbane Lions	J.Ramsdale
23	Adelaide	B.Boileau
24	Port Adelaide	J.Baldwick
25	North Melbourne	E.Gough
26	Adelaide	M.Staunton
27	North Melbourne	A.Brook
28	Carlton	C.Mason
29	Collingwood	K.Whiley
30	Sydney Swans	J.McCabe
31	Brisbane Lions	T.Henry
32	Geelong Cats	A.Schutte
33	Adelaide	Z.Walsh
34	Brisbane Lions	S.Peters
35	Gold Coast Suns	S.McMullen
36	Brisbane Lions	R.Crozier
37	Essendon	G.Stubs
38	West Coast Eagles	G.Cleaver
39	GWS Giants	M.Robertson
40	Melbourne	B.Lyne

Cleaver has nominated WA only, and Freo first pick is after WC fourth pick. So expect Cleaver to go at 42. Could be the biggest steal of the draft.

On moto g(6) plus using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[spooner21]

Cleaver has nominated WA only, and Freo first pick is after WC fourth pick. So expect Cleaver to go at 42. Could be the biggest steal of the draft.

On moto g(6) plus using BigFooty.com mobile app

Ahhh yep. I only looked at the first two rounds after trades. Assumed Freo must have had the next WA pick so plonked Cleaver at 38. Bargain!

 

[CURVE]

Here's my totally unqualified attempt at the first two rounds:

Selection	Pick Holder	Selection
1	Western Bulldogs	K.Weston-Turner
2	West Coast Eagles	J.Rentsch
3	GWS Giants	K.Shroj
4	Western Bulldogs	A.Pisano
5	Brisbane Lions	E.Long (Bid Matched)
6	Melbourne	B.Barwick
7	Western Bulldogs	M.Williamson
8	Carlton	C.Buttifant
9	Collingwood	E.Grigg
10	Collingwood	L.Keck
11	St Kilda	G.Clark
12	Western Bulldogs	C.Adams
13	Geelong Cats	B.O'Rourke (Bid Matched)
14	Melbourne	S.Grunden
15	Richmond	E.Slocombe
16	West Coast Eagles	K.Kavanagh
17	Sydney Swans	A.Raison
18	Hawthorn	I.Bacon
19	Port Adelaide	P.Window
20	Melbourne	J.Rigoni (Bid Matched)
21	Essendon	L.Jordan
22	Brisbane Lions	J.Ramsdale
23	Adelaide	B.Boileau
24	Port Adelaide	J.Baldwick
25	North Melbourne	E.Gough
26	Adelaide	M.Staunton
27	North Melbourne	A.Brook
28	Carlton	C.Mason
29	Collingwood	K.Whiley
30	Sydney Swans	J.McCabe
31	Brisbane Lions	T.Henry
32	Geelong Cats	A.Schutte
33	Adelaide	Z.Walsh
34	Brisbane Lions	S.Peters
35	Gold Coast Suns	S.McMullen
36	Brisbane Lions	R.Crozier
37	Essendon	G.Stubs
38	West Coast Eagles	G.Cleaver
39	GWS Giants	M.Robertson
40	Melbourne	B.Lyne

Not sure North would go for key defender when we have just brought in Libby Birch and our defensive stocks are already very good. I think our most important need would be a tall forward, especially if Shierlaw finishes up next season as expected. Also, the injury to Bruton may see us try and pick up a midfielder. Emily Gough could be a good choice for one of those spots.

 

[Vacuous Space]

Here's my totally unqualified attempt at the first two rounds:

Seems a pretty fair effort. Sarah Black's late mail article is presented in a very similar order to yours. She hasn't assigned numbers to them, but there's pretty clearly an order to them. I do wonder if she moved people around after writing the article, since she has Clark 9th and mentions her going to St Kilda at 10, which is where you have her.

 

[Teen Wolf]

chioci on the wing relies more on running up and down her wing and at 35 next year i dont see saints keeping her

So you reckon St Kilda didn't offer a two-year deal in order to lure her over from Collingwood? Well, I guess it's possible...

...but not bloody likely.

Going 'round again: 10 Saints kick off re-signing spree

Ten Saints have been locked in for the 2024 AFLW Season, kicking off St Kilda’s first stretch of re-signings in preparation for the campaign ahead.

www.saints.com.au

Meanwhile, trade recruits Steph Chiocci, Grace Kelly and Natalie Plane, plus Simone Nalder and Bec Ott are set to go around again, having a season still to run on their existing contracts.

Good to see some clubs be more forthcoming with information re contract lengths this year.

 

[Vacuous Space]

Good to see some clubs be more forthcoming with information re contract lengths this year.

You'd think that announcing re-signings and delistings in a timely manner would be a bare minimum thing.

 

[The Nostradamus]

dogs leaving their final delistings til very late
its draft day and they need to delist 3 more to be able to use all their top 11 picks

you'd feel pretty stiff getting delisted just hours before the draft

 

[Vacuous Space]

dogs leaving their final delistings til very late
its draft day and they need to delist 3 more to be able to use all their top 11 picks

you'd feel pretty stiff getting delisted just hours before the draft

They would have been delisted before today, the Dogs are just slow at announcing things. The final draft order was announced yesterday and final list lodgement before the draft would have been before that. By my count, there's still one more delisting/inactive/retirement they haven't announced after McLeod's retirement and Brown and Lagioia's delisting. Anybody's guess if the eventually tell us who that is.

 

[RedmanWasHere]

Request.

The full list of AFLW Draft nominees please.

Cheers.

 

[Thehurtlocker]

Not sure North would go for key defender when we have just brought in Libby Birch and our defensive stocks are already very good. I think our most important need would be a tall forward, especially if Shierlaw finishes up next season as expected. Also, the injury to Bruton may see us try and pick up a midfielder. Emily Gough could be a good choice for one of those spots.

They had a tall forward in McCarthy and didn’t give her a go so I’m not completely convinced they would do anything positive there. 4 games in her first season. North have proven they don’t put too much faith or time into the draft selections.

 

[Teen Wolf]

They had a tall forward in McCarthy and didn’t give her a go so I’m not completely convinced they would do anything positive there. 4 games in her first season. North have proven they don’t put too much faith or time into the draft selections.

Grand Final team included these players/picks from the 5 drafts spanning 2018 to 2022:

Bresnehan (63)
Wright (32)
Mia King (49)
Eddey (13)
O’Loughlin (22)
Smith (55)
Craven (13)
Rennie (28)
Ferguson (51)
Gatt (28)

So that works out to be two picks, averaging around the no.35 mark, who make their way into the team each year. Pretty damn good return for a rather modest collection of selections.

At pick 39, McCarthy not working out is actually quite an outlier for the club. If she's really worthy of another AFLW chance, it'll come eventually. Much like how all of Carl, Coll, Melb & WB passed on Riddell at the draft twice, before NM showed faith in her.

 

[MYOB]

They would have been delisted before today, the Dogs are just slow at announcing things. The final draft order was announced yesterday and final list lodgement before the draft would have been before that. By my count, there's still one more delisting/inactive/retirement they haven't announced after McLeod's retirement and Brown and Lagioia's delisting. Anybody's guess if the eventually tell us who that is.

Coyne to the inactive list

On SM-G781B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[FoopyNerd]

Anyone got access to this article?

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/subscribe/news/1/?sourceCode=HSWEB_WRE170_a_FBK&dest=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.heraldsun.com.au%2Fsport%2Fafl%2Faflw%2Fthe-aflw-draft-is-broken-list-managers-recruiters-have-their-say-on-how-to-fix-payment-tiers-drafting-player-movement%2Fnews-story%2Fe30a2c743b382bfbe8fb099c279967c6&memtype=anonymous&mode=premium&v21=GROUPB-Segment-1-NOSCORE

Also interesting to see so much interstate movement in the draft last night, particularly at the top end which is fantastic!

 

[Teen Wolf]

It's a long article with not much new info.

Revealing the transformations AFLW list managers, coaches & players are crying out for

AFLW SPECIAL REPORT

It is time to blow up the state-based element of the AFLW draft and bin the wildly unpopular four-tier salary system offered to players.

This publication has canvassed the views of AFLW list managers, football bosses, coaches, agents and players and they headline five significant transformations the industry is crying out for.

There is also a push to allow clubs to trade future picks and for the league to ease the rigidness of the trade period.

Longer term, the AFLW should consider live trading on draft night and providing clubs with academies to accelerate development to ultimately enhance a product that is bound for full-time professionalism.

Under current rules, the 569 players nominated for Monday night’s AFLW draft got to choose whether to apply nationally or in a particular state.

About 70 per cent were happy to be picked by any club.

It’s understood most of the South Australian and Queensland prospects who nominated their home states did so simply because it was easier – not because they had an issue relocating.

That has prompted calls for the end of state-based nominations and leaving it national, like the AFL draft.

“I haven’t spoken to one player in our interviews who would have had an issue with going national,” one list boss said. “We’re ready. I’d be disappointed if we didn’t do it next year, to be honest.” The state-based draft delivered a healthy advantage to two-club states (originally one club) in footy heartlands.

Adelaide has been the biggest winner. While most girls are now nominating nationally, the risk was out-lined clearly by another club.

“If the top five players are all from Western Australia and they all nominate WA, then there is no point in a Victorian club trying to trade up high in the draft because pick eight is just as good as pick two effectively for their talent pool,” they said.

“Vice-versa, if there’s five good WA players and West Coast has pick 35 in the draft – but it’s the fourth pick in WA – they’re still going to get the fourth-best player at pick 35.

“But if it was a national draft and you’re sitting ninth on the ladder and you want to be aggressive in the draft to try to trade up, you know you can go high and still get a good player.” There are, of course, other considerations.

“What is probably a fair conversation is that they need to balance that with the cost of living and the players’ ability to afford to move interstate,” the club official said.

The feeling is that 12 months is enough notice to tell 2024 prospects that next year’s draft would be totally national.


PAYMENT TIERS

The fresh Collective Bargaining Agreement has ratified tiers until 2027. Unlike the AFL in which players are paid their own negotiated wage, AFLW players must fit into the jigsaw of four contract tiers.

There can be only two or three tier-one players per club, six tier-twos, six tier-threes and 16 tier-fours.

In 2023, the payments were $87,192 (tier one), $71,806 (tier two), $61,548 (tier three) and $51,290 (tier four).

By 2027, they will range from $117,968 (tier one) to $72,373 (tier four). But on page 118 of the CBA, there is a clause that many believe was written in so former AFL boss Gillon McLachlan could sign off on the deal while still in charge.

It reads: “As soon as practicable following execution of this agreement but no later than 30 June 2024, the Parties agree to conduct a review of AFLW list and AFLW player management structure”.

Clubs believe they outgrew the tier system years ago – and that clause could be the one to wave ta-ta to the tiers.

The current set-up creates an imbalance in which players who did not feature all season bank similar cash as some who played every game. It does not make sense.

Then, there is the stigma attached.

For a generation who grew up counting social media likes, some footballers simply want a higher grading.

Some players ranked as a tier-four had their salaries beefed up to effectively a flat tier-three through extra cash via the ASA payments (Additional Service Agreements).

“But because you’ve got a tier-four next to your name, the money doesn’t matter,” one insider said. “It’s the fact you see me as a tier-four.

“The managers are trying hard to educate, but it’s very difficult. Some of the girls just get hung up on it.” The Herald Sun is aware of players who believed they deserved to be tier-three. But after being offered a tier-four contract they chose to move from Western Australia to Victoria for tier-three status.

They relocated across the country for the sake of an extra $10,000 and a higher tier next to their name – a grading that is not even publicly available. It seems nonsensical.

Reading the tea leaves, even though the clause to review by June 30 was written into the CBA, it seems as though 2025 would be the most likely move to an open salary cap instead.

In 2025, the cap will be $2,290,812 per club plus $127,693 in ASAs. Binning the tiers would provide clubs the flexibility to divide that cash among their 30 players as they see fit – just like in the AFL.


FUTURE PICKS

The AFL can expect written feedback from clubs venting their frustration with rivals on trade tactics last week.

Fremantle poached No.1 pick Gabby Newton (Dogs) and All-Australian Ash Brazill (Pies), and only had No.6 to work with. Brazill and Newton were set to be stranded until the Bulldogs and then Collingwood – with the help of the AFL – worked their fingers to the knuckle to help do the Dockers’ work for them courtesy of an 11-club trade.

“We’ve been very vocal with the AFL that we’re super, super supportive of more flexibility when it comes to trading, in particular,” one club said. “Because there’s not a whole lot you can do at the moment in terms of being overly strategic with the way that you structure your picks.

“If you’re giving up a good pick for a good player it’s actually really hard to get back into the draft at a good level. I would love to see the competition get to a point where there’s future trading in particular.” The flexibility it would free up is a no-brainer, even if it has to be heavily regulated by the AFL in its infancy.

That said, the passiveness of some clubs pursuing players last week was infuriating and created stress across the industry.


LIVE TRADING ON DRAFT NIGHT

This one seems a fair way away. The demographic of some booths at the men’s draft even alarmed some because there is a sense this is a young person’s game.

The whiz in this space is Sydney’s senior data analyst Chris Keane, the man who exposed a loophole in the live trading system when it was less than 10 picks old in 2018.

Keane is a mathematics gun and when AFL clubs are weighing up multiple offers on the clock on draft night he is the sort of operator you want crunching the numbers.

AFLW clubs do not have the resources to get this right.


ACADEMIES

Could AFLW be used as guinea pigs to get the controversial system in the men’s league right?

That idea was raised by two sources who admittedly added that ‘guinea pigs’ was far from the ideal word to use. But there is merit in incentivising clubs to develop talent. The standard of some girls playing Coates Leagues is, according to a few experts, far from ideal.

Resourcing would clearly be a big issue. One northern AFL club spends $1.3 million annually on its academy.

But there must be a way to capture more talent. The men’s draft routinely sees smokeys picked from VAFA or local clubs but that is not the case in AFLW.

List managers laugh at the flood of emails and phone calls they get at this time of year.

Coaches, parents, managers and even players themselves flick through tapes with notes attached.

“You’ve got to see this girl – she’s better than anyone you’ve got on your list,” they often say. The reality is they are a long way off it. Like live trading, this is one perhaps for the longer term.


STAGGERED APPROACH

New football boss Laura Kane will be reluctant to rush the evolution of AFLW. Put simply, the league does not yet trust clubs enough to pull multiple levers at once.

Friday’s AFLW draft rehearsal perhaps highlighted that when the league workshopped what would happen if a club attempted to draft someone who had not nominated for their state.

The sophistication gap is significant and the switched-on clubs could swindle those without the same level of experience.

But it should be a national draft next year with future picks also given significant consideration while tearing up the tier system by 2025 would be a pleasing outcome. It’s worth remembering this is still a semi-professional league.


HUNGOVER DRAFT

There were 41 players traded in the trade period ranging from the Dogs (six inclusions) to Adelaide (none). The Dogs will dominate Monday night’s draft with picks No.1, 4, 6 and 11. But as talent orders are finalised their fans should not get overly excited.

The hangover effect from the expansion clubs has seen eight of the best talents taken off the board already.

They are Hayley McLaughlin, Laura Stone, Jess Vukic (Hawthorn), Lauren Young, Molly Brooksby, Shineah Goody (Port Adelaide), Amy Gaylor (Essendon) and Holly Cooper (Sydney).

Sources said in a national draft there was little doubt Young would’ve gone No.1, Stone No.2, Goody in the top five and Brooskby in the top 15.

Gaylor and Vukic would have been among the top five Victorian girls. It is little wonder the Dogs would have picked Gabby Newton at No.1 for the second time in five years if a trade fell over.

Kristie-Lee Weston-Turner is the likely No.1 pick on Monday night, a 178cm key forward who could go from Western Jets to Western Bulldogs overnight.

Yesterday on the Fremantle and West Coast boards I concluded that Grace Kelly and Mikayla Hyde are the players being alluded to in the section about tier 4 WA players moving to Victoria for tier 3.

 

[Cdog71]

Is there still a bonus for #1 pick to move interstate?

 

[The Nostradamus]

with the lists more or less complete for 2024 is there any team that will challenge the big 4 (Lions, Roos, Dees and Crows) next year?

 

[Teen Wolf]

I recommend watching Geelong's semi and prelim finals from this year.

 

[The Nostradamus]

big 5* or do cats replace dees in that big 4

 

[shockmaster]

with the lists more or less complete for 2024 is there any team that will challenge the big 4 (Lions, Roos, Dees and Crows) next year?

I reckon Cats could overtake the Dees, hard to see anyone else genuinely entering that mix but I reckon Dons are a decent chance for best of the rest

 

[Saints2001]

Agree with the above re: Cats and Dons.

Sydney I reckon are in with a shot too for the best of the rest, bearing in mind Morphett was out for a few weeks at the end and didn't play finals.

 

[shockmaster]

Agree with the above re: Cats and Dons.

Sydney I reckon are in with a shot too for the best of the rest, bearing in mind Morphett was out for a few weeks at the end and didn't play finals.

The only thing that makes me uncertain about Sydney is how easy their fixture was, getting to play all of the bottom 8 teams, and that surely they'll have a much harder fixture next year. Maybe I'm wrong and they'll be able to handle it, they did look very promising towards the end

 

[The Nostradamus]

The only thing that makes me uncertain about Sydney is how easy their fixture was, getting to play all of the bottom 8 teams, and that surely they'll have a much harder fixture next year. Maybe I'm wrong and they'll be able to handle it, they did look very promising towards the end

They are a fair way off the big 4/5 imo

Crows made them look ordinary

I’d go
Lions/north/crows top tier
Cats/dees second tier
Big gap

Dons/tigers/swans/suns third tier

Then the rest

 

[Arwib]

with the lists more or less complete for 2024 is there any team that will challenge the big 4 (Lions, Roos, Dees and Crows) next year?

It's a clear big 5 now, the Cats are there too.

I think there's a few who could also take the leap pretty soon, my picks would be Richmond (they battled really well through an injury crisis, fit I think they're at least top 6) and Gold Coast the most likely to do it next year. Could see either of them with a good run being competitive in a final against those big 5 teams.

Sydney and Essendon look like they are probably well set up to do it over a longer time frame if they keep the guts of their list together, but surely not next season.

 

[Arwib]

The only thing that makes me uncertain about Sydney is how easy their fixture was, getting to play all of the bottom 8 teams, and that surely they'll have a much harder fixture next year. Maybe I'm wrong and they'll be able to handle it, they did look very promising towards the end

I think it's reasonable to think the growth evidenced across this season from say round 1 to round 9, should probably roughly balance out with the harder top 6 quality draw. Sydney played their best ever game 3 times in 4 weeks, so that's the new benchmark which they weren't capable of in the early part of the season... but they won't hit the level of those games vs the Dogs, Collingwood and Suns every week.

Assume a much harder draw and a couple of hidings at the hands of top sides, and I think winning roughly half their games again, and being around the edge of finals, would then still represent growth for the Swans.