Play Nice AFL Womens - General Discussion

[Teen Wolf]

12,122 through the gates last night brings the season total to something like 308,981. Onwards and upwards:

 

[Teen Wolf]

For mine the fact there was 30 Irish players signed this season across 13 teams and four playing in the GF with a couple in the wings.
It’s a bit of an indictment on the growth of the game and the development of home-grown talent.
No doubt the level of the game is rising and there’s new players with more advanced skills compared to years past and I expect there will be more new players ready to “Preform now” coming through in the next draft.
But for that many athletes who have never kicked an Aussie Rules ball or to have played within our rules, with the tackling aspect to be able to take positions ahead of 18-19yr olds that have played the game throughout their junior years.
It’s kind of disappointing.

It’s also the type of players at home that are being drafted with more of a focus on athletic ability and size before skill level.

I'm not sure what there is to be disappointed about. We produce a disproportionate amount of inside mids. Particularly in Victoria, i.e. the main source of talent. Irish players aren't taking the positions of the likes of Amanda Ling.

Until now (that is, the incoming first fully national draft) it has been easier to recruit from overseas than from interstate. So of course the clubs with sensible list managers would look to Ireland to complement a team's core with outside runners and/or height.

 

[Cmarsh]

12,122 through the gates last night brings the season total to something like 308,981. Onwards and upwards:

View attachment 2179100

What was the first season of 18 teams? Probably the best for year to year comparison.

 

[pattymalone00]

12,122 through the gates last night brings the season total to something like 308,981. Onwards and upwards:

View attachment 2179100

What was the first season of 18 teams? Probably the best for year to year comparison.

2022 S7, that also was the first year they moved to end of the mens season meaning grand finals werent in the main stadiums... and of course theres the 2020 and 2021 covid effected seasons especially 2020 the season was cancelled after week 1 of the finals

History of AFLW Expansion
2017-2019 | 8 teams (Crows, Lions, Carlton, Pies, Freo, GWS, Dees, Dogs)
2019 | 10 teams (Cats , Kangas )
2020 | 14 teams (Suns, Tigers, Saints, Eagles )
2022 S7 | 18 teams (Dons, Hawks, Power, Swans)

History of AFLW Season structure
2017-2021 | Played before and during early rounds of mens season with free entry
2017-2018 | 7 Rounds of 4 games + Grand Final
2019 | 7 Rounds of 5 games + 2 Prelim Finals + Grand Final
2020 | 2 conferences of 7 teams, 7 Rounds of 7 games + 4 Semi Finals (No prelims or Grand Final due to covid
2021-2022 S6 | Played before and during early rounds of mens season with paid entry
2021 | 9 rounds of 7 games + 2 Qualifying Finals, 2 Prelim Finals and Grand Final
2022 S6 | 10 rounds of 7 games + 2 Qualifying Finals, 2 Prelim Finals and Grand Final
2022 S7-| Season Moved to end of mens season with paid entry
2022 S7-2023 | 10 rounds of 7 games + Mens finals format brought in to AFLW (9 Finals ,4 Week 1,2 Week 2+3+Grand Final)
2024 | 11 Rounds (played in 10 weeks) of 9 games + Finals

 

[Cdog71]

I'm not sure what there is to be disappointed about. We produce a disproportionate amount of inside mids. Particularly in Victoria, i.e. the main source of talent.

That is part of the problem, recruiters for the pathway and who they advocate for and promote.
Which in turn influences local coaches and Parents pushing Coaches to play their kids as an inside mid and getting the kids to focus on playing as an inside mid in the attempt to be identified.

Also the coaching at local level using players to win games rather than developing footballers so you see Clubs choosing athletic types as the next best option after inside mids.

Isobel Bacon drafted to Richmond.
Played every year since Auskick
Wasn’t identified or selected for Interleague as a 13 or as a 14 yr old
Wasn’t selected bottom age U/16 or top age or bottom age U/18.
Worked on her cross country running.
Was selected in top age U/18 Coates plays that year and goes pick #13.
If you watch her kick, she isnt a footballer.
I find it hard to believe there isn’t more players out there with more potential.

It seems to get to the National level getting to as many contests as you can and smash kicking it forward is the most successful route.

IMO
Completing a pass while running and Marking above your shoulders is what will improve the game.
We don’t develop it enough here so they get it from where it is developed.
In Gaelic Football.

 

[Teen Wolf]

That is part of the problem, recruiters for the pathway and who they advocate for and promote.
Which in turn influences local coaches and Parents pushing Coaches to play their kids as an inside mid and getting the kids to focus on playing as an inside mid in the attempt to be identified.

Not unique to any region or any gender, so it would be odd to advance that as a reason for why one state produces lots of AFLW onballers and another lots of AFLW full-forwards.

Isobel Bacon drafted to Richmond.
Played every year since Auskick
Wasn’t identified or selected for Interleague as a 13 or as a 14 yr old
Wasn’t selected bottom age U/16 or top age or bottom age U/18.
Worked on her cross country running.
Was selected in top age U/18 Coates plays that year and goes pick #13.
If you watch her kick, she isnt a footballer.
I find it hard to believe there isn’t more players out there with more potential.

It seems to get to the National level getting to as many contests as you can and smash kicking it forward is the most successful route.

IMO
Completing a pass while running and Marking above your shoulders is what will improve the game.
We don’t develop it enough here so they get it from where it is developed.
In Gaelic Football.

There are plenty of 19yo men who struggle at AFL level too. Whereas Jim Stynes won a Brownlow, and Mason Cox dominated a prelim!

I've heard the "isn't a natural footballer" line haphazardly applied to young players so often, it's lost all meaning.

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[Tas]

For mine the fact there was 30 Irish players signed this season across 13 teams and four playing in the GF with a couple in the wings.
It’s a bit of an indictment on the growth of the game and the development of home-grown talent.
No doubt the level of the game is rising and there’s new players with more advanced skills compared to years past and I expect there will be more new players ready to “Preform now” coming through in the next draft.
But for that many athletes who have never kicked an Aussie Rules ball or to have played within our rules, with the tackling aspect to be able to take positions ahead of 18-19yr olds that have played the game throughout their junior years.
It’s kind of disappointing.

It’s also the type of players at home that are being drafted with more of a focus on athletic ability and size before skill level.

Since we entered the comp in 2019 the best draft pick we had was pick 10 and most have been 12+ and a significant chunk of our inaugural players were poached by other expansion clubs and our VFL club has been heavily raided which we have to expect with a fast growing competition but we were meant to have half our team come from Tasmania but there just isn't the talent there. We have a handful of Tasmanian players but we have relied heavily on Irish women because that market is unregulated, we need someone with pace and endurance, we can get an Irish lady.

We just don't have access to the best of the local talent. We've traded many of our better picks to take players that can fill specific needs and we have developed a lot of lower rated players but with the Irish ladies you can access the best of them without really any barriers blocking you. A number of other clubs have also benefited from Irish ladies we developed who went on to take more prominent roles with other expansion clubs.

It is just a resource that exists, if we were getting the cream of local talent we wouldn't need Irish players. That being said, a lot of the Irish ladies do not make it, many struggle living so far away from home, it isn't automatically going to be a success, I think the fact we have taken a fair few has given us a bit of experience in terms of the pros and cons and they have probably a larger support group which makes it more attractive for newer Irish ladies considering a move.

 

[Cdog71]

Not unique to any region or any gender, so it would be odd to advance that as a reason for why one state produces lots of AFLW onballers and another lots of AFLW full-forwards.

I do think young boys are more role oriented in their approach or how they are encouraged to improve.
There are small fwds, intercept def, marking fwds etc in the draft alot more so than the Draft for girls.
I do think the support in the Pathway is improving but I think there’s still a massive difference between Boys and Girls.
The SA U/16 team obliterated the Vic team this year…it wouldn’t surprise me if every player that represented Vic was played as a midfielder in their community team.
(Yes, Vic had a longer lockdown period than all other states which may have some impact on development.)
There was a massive difference in the Teams.

I've heard the "isn't a natural footballer" line haphazardly applied to young players so often, it's lost all meaning.

Riddell is an incredible competitor and perhaps Bacon is as well.
Ok, let’s call it skill competency…Gaylord for example.
It is a kicking game.
The smash kick territory game is having too much of an influence.
IMO.
Clubs recruit Irish players because they are better at it.

When you get into the population sizes, registered juniors between the two countries and the different sports, it comes down to development.

 

[jatz14]

That is part of the problem, recruiters for the pathway and who they advocate for and promote.
Which in turn influences local coaches and Parents pushing Coaches to play their kids as an inside mid and getting the kids to focus on playing as an inside mid in the attempt to be identified.

Also the coaching at local level using players to win games rather than developing footballers so you see Clubs choosing athletic types as the next best option after inside mids.

Isobel Bacon drafted to Richmond.
Played every year since Auskick
Wasn’t identified or selected for Interleague as a 13 or as a 14 yr old
Wasn’t selected bottom age U/16 or top age or bottom age U/18.
Worked on her cross country running.
Was selected in top age U/18 Coates plays that year and goes pick #13.
If you watch her kick, she isnt a footballer.
I find it hard to believe there isn’t more players out there with more potential.

It seems to get to the National level getting to as many contests as you can and smash kicking it forward is the most successful route.

IMO
Completing a pass while running and Marking above your shoulders is what will improve the game.
We don’t develop it enough here so they get it from where it is developed.
In Gaelic Football.

Woman's Gaelic had a decade head start.

That the proportion of Irish women who could succeed in AFLW is higher than in the men's, should have been predictable.

Also, men's Gaelic is pretty full on shamateurism. Top male players aren't paid, but they do seem to find really really cheap houses, and cars, and very high paying jobs, they rarely have to turn up for.

Female players, not much, so the draw of AFLW for female Gaelic players is pretty strong.

AFLW gets a much higher proportion of the top female players, than is true of male players.


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[jatz14]

I do think young boys are more role oriented in their approach or how they are encouraged to improve.
There are small fwds, intercept def, marking fwds etc in the draft alot more so than the Draft for girls.
I do think the support in the Pathway is improving but I think there’s still a massive difference between Boys and Girls.
The SA U/16 team obliterated the Vic team this year…it wouldn’t surprise me if every player that represented Vic was played as a midfielder in their community team.
(Yes, Vic had a longer lockdown period than all other states which may have some impact on development.)
There was a massive difference in the Teams.

Riddell is an incredible competitor and perhaps Bacon is as well.
Ok, let’s call it skill competency…Gaylord for example.
It is a kicking game.
The smash kick territory game is having too much of an influence.
IMO.
Clubs recruit Irish players because they are better at it.

When you get into the population sizes, registered juniors between the two countries and the different sports, it comes down to development.

I think this is the zenith, and the importance of Irish players will start to drop.

This is due to this draft being the first, where players that have been through the full development pathway, and have been identified as talents since a young age, predominate so far down the draft.

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[Cdog71]

I think this is the zenith, and the importance of Irish players will start to drop.

This is due to this draft being the first, where players that have been through the full development pathway, and have been identified as talents since a young age, predominate so far down the draft.

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Yep
This Draft is different… I guess we’ll see

 

[The Educator]

Woman's Gaelic had a decade head start.

That the proportion of Irish women who could succeed in AFLW is higher than in the men's, should have been predictable.

Also, men's Gaelic is pretty full on shamateurism. Top male players aren't paid, but they do seem to find really really cheap houses, and cars, and very high paying jobs, they rarely have to turn up for.

Female players, not much, so the draw of AFLW for female Gaelic players is pretty strong.

AFLW gets a much higher proportion of the top female players, than is true of male players.


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Women's sport in general has a bigger talent spread in my experience.

So the best irish women's footballers are going to do better than the men because they will be that much more talented than the bottom half of the AFLW

 

[Mitchell Madness]

Women's sport in general has a bigger talent spread in my experience.

So the best irish women's footballers are going to do better than the men because they will be that much more talented than the bottom half of the AFLW

This!
I think a lot of the anx about it comes from a deep down xenophobia.

 

[The Educator]

This!
I think a lot of the anx about it comes from a deep down xenophobia.

The argument would also potentially have coherence if all these players weren't coming from the same location.

 

[troybe]

Cam Joyce has been let go as coach of the Suns

 

[threenewpadlocks]

I don't think the influx of Irish players is really any different to the influx of players who picked up the game only around the time that they were listed in the first place.

How is the idea that some Irish player is being given an opportunity over some player who played for their state at U18 level any different than Libby Birch, the first player to win three flags at three clubs, who grew up as an elite Netballer and had literally never kicked a footy until 9 months before the inaugural AFLW season?

Both are reflective of the fact that we're trying to support a large number of listed players with a very small talent pool. In 2016 Victoria only had about 70 active women's teams at all levels and all standards in the state - and even that had grown from much lower levels (less than 30-40) within a couple of years. Of course it's grown since then and things like the U18 TAC/NAB/Coates league has been introduce but the principle remains true.

 

[Liam Boy]

I don't think the influx of Irish players is really any different to the influx of players who picked up the game only around the time that they were listed in the first place.

How is the idea that some Irish player is being given an opportunity over some player who played for their state at U18 level any different than Libby Birch, the first player to win three flags at three clubs, who grew up as an elite Netballer and had literally never kicked a footy until 9 months before the inaugural AFLW season?

Both are reflective of the fact that we're trying to support a large number of listed players with a very small talent pool. In 2016 Victoria only had about 70 active women's teams at all levels and all standards in the state - and even that had grown from much lower levels (less than 30-40) within a couple of years. Of course it's grown since then and things like the U18 TAC/NAB/Coates league has been introduce but the principle remains true.

And the disparity probably has more to do with how much more rewarding it is/was to codeswitch from Gaelic than to codeswitch from another sport in Australia

 

[Teen Wolf]

Cam Joyce has been let go as coach of the Suns

Yeah suddenly gone and never to be heard from again, just like how Suns supporters disappeared from this forum.

Presumably the people who re-signed him to the end of 2026 will be sacked next.

 

[Cdog71]

This!
I think a lot of the anx about it comes from a deep down xenophobia.

That’s one of your best.

 

[Cdog71]

So the best irish women's footballers are going to do better than the men because they will be that much more talented than the bottom half of the AFLW

Wut.

It very well maybe, as I posted earlier, Girls who have been taught to play and have played Gaelic football from an early age to the other side of adolescence are more adept at kicking the ball whilst running.
At pace, avoiding the opposition and completing a pass by foot.
The original point I made was about the development of that in aflw draftees or putting more importance on winning the ball at stoppage underneath.
That is where this started.

 

[DuckYeah]

For mine the fact there was 30 Irish players signed this season across 13 teams and four playing in the GF with a couple in the wings.
It’s a bit of an indictment on the growth of the game and the development of home-grown talent.
No doubt the level of the game is rising and there’s new players with more advanced skills compared to years past and I expect there will be more new players ready to “Preform now” coming through in the next draft.
But for that many athletes who have never kicked an Aussie Rules ball or to have played within our rules, with the tackling aspect to be able to take positions ahead of 18-19yr olds that have played the game throughout their junior years.
It’s kind of disappointing.

It’s also the type of players at home that are being drafted with more of a focus on athletic ability and size before skill level.

Good point. I think the competition is far too premature for a national professional competition.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

That’s one of your best.

I try

 

[Mitchell Madness]

That’s one of your best.

I try

 

[Teen Wolf]

Whoops I meant to touch on this last week:

Across the competition, nine clubs delivered AFLW membership records – Adelaide, Brisbane, Carlton, Geelong, Hawthorn, North Melbourne, Port Adelaide, Richmond and West Coast Eagles.

We know Hawthorn crossed the 6k mark, Port Adelaide 4k, North reported 4392. Coming off their wooden spoon season, the Bulldogs had 3121 members which is a drop of about 100.

And based on this:

Adelaide, Brisbane, Carlton, Geelong, Gold Coast SUNS and North Melbourne also delivered over 10 per cent growth in their AFLW membership tally year-on-year.

Geelong (7190 members in 2023) managed to go very close to, if not exceed, the 8k mark.

 

[MYOB]

To me it looks like players are being traded for very little in return