Game Day AFLW Round 10 - Carlton v St Kilda - Sunday 5th November, 1.05pm @ IKON Park

[lily of laguna]

Any update on Ronnie? Hoping for the best fearing the worst!


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[katmanblue]

I wouldn’t trade Darcy as an original team member she adds a lot to the fabric of the team but hopefully she sticks around on a basic wage and continues to invest in the younger players.


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Do they really?

Must be a hell of a locker room presence as they don't contribute much on field in recenect seasons, 5 minute cameos notwithstanding. Certainly not enough to command a marquee spot.

Think of the players that have left over the r last few years. I wonder if any of them would have stayed if they'd been offered a marquee spot on the list.

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[blueboy25]

Do they really?

Must be a hell of a locker room presence as they don't contribute much on field in recenect seasons, 5 minute cameos notwithstanding. Certainly not enough to command a marquee spot.

Think of the players that have left over the r last few years. I wonder if any of them would have stayed if they'd been offered a marquee spot on the list.

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Who were the main ones that deserved a marquee spot that left?

Prespakis is one but was always going to her childhood side. McEvoy maybe but seems like she wanted to get out of Melbourne.

Hoskings, Egan, Gee, Walker, Stevens.....are they really marquee players?

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

I agree with trading Vescio. Not the others.

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I mean, the player has to agree too. I don't think we will trade her.

Our forward line is still a mess and it's hard for a medium forward to function in it. We either fix that or we put her behind the ball again. I think she played well off half back.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Do they really?

Must be a hell of a locker room presence as they don't contribute much on field in recenect seasons, 5 minute cameos notwithstanding. Certainly not enough to command a marquee spot.

Think of the players that have left over the r last few years. I wonder if any of them would have stayed if they'd been offered a marquee spot on the list.

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Darcy was an initial marquee player, but do we know for a fact she is still in the top salary bracket?

 

[katmanblue]

Darcy was an initial marquee player, but do we know for a fact she is still in the top salary bracket?

I definitely don't. I had previously asked but in one of these threads but didn't get a definitive answer. With no evidence to the contrary,

Im assuming things haven't changed much as we really haven't gotten any players in to ursurp Vescio's position.

Taylah Harris, Perspakis potentially from those that left.

Maybe Hill or Peterson or Moody?

Can't think of anyone else.


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[The Old Dark Navy's]

I definitely don't. I had previously asked but in one of these threads but didn't get a definitive answer. With no evidence to the contrary,

Im assuming things haven't changed much as we really haven't gotten any players in to ursurp Vescio's position.

Taylah Harris, Perspakis potentially from those that left.

Maybe Hill or Peterson or Moody?

Can't think of anyone else.


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Prespakis would have been on top dollar for sure. I think Moody, Peterson and Hill would be on more than Darcy. Perhaps McKay as well.

At any rate, there are only a couple of players in the top bracket. I feel that Darcy wouldn't be any longer.

 

[lily of laguna]

Do they really?

Must be a hell of a locker room presence as they don't contribute much on field in recenect seasons, 5 minute cameos notwithstanding. Certainly not enough to command a marquee spot.

Think of the players that have left over the r last few years. I wonder if any of them would have stayed if they'd been offered a marquee spot on the list.

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I have no idea what her contract is like obviously, but every new young player interview I can remember over the last few years has stated how excited they are to play with Darcy and how inspired they are to be at the club!

To my mind that is worth a fair bit of value in team culture and esprit de corps.

If Darce is happy to continue on a wage commensurate to her out put on the field plus a veterans / “Carlton person” bonus I think that’s very fair.




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[Coona Blues]

I have no idea what her contract is like obviously, but every new young player interview I can remember over the last few years has stated how excited they are to play with Darcy and how inspired they are to be at the club!

To my mind that is worth a fair bit of value in team culture and esprit de corps.

If Darce is happy to continue on a wage commensurate to her out put on the field plus a veterans / “Carlton person” bonus I think that’s very fair.




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Sorry LOL can’t agree “if Darcy is happy to continue on a wage commensurate to her (your word, I would be lynched for that pronoun) out put on the field PLUS a veterans / “Carlton person” bonus I think that’s very fair”

There is a salary cap. Other clubs have used pay restraints (+ off field tempters) to poach a long line of our players while we only get draftees, state leaguers and veterans (albeit some decent ones) discarded by their teams. Vescio’s best is dynamic, but we see it way too rarely, if at all these days.

 

[Jimmae]

Pretty sure Darcy is the tier down from marquee since their initial deal expired.

 

[lily of laguna]

Sorry LOL can’t agree “if Darcy is happy to continue on a wage commensurate to her (your word, I would be lynched for that pronoun) out put on the field PLUS a veterans / “Carlton person” bonus I think that’s very fair”

There is a salary cap. Other clubs have used pay restraints (+ off field tempters) to poach a long line of our players while we only get draftees, state leaguers and veterans (albeit some decent ones) discarded by their teams. Vescio’s best is dynamic, but we see it way too rarely, if at all these days.

No worries as I mentioned I’m not what Darce is on and when I was talking about a veteran bonus or whatever you want to call it, it would be fairly small.
Just don’t see the need to move players on that have stuck fat in the lean times and are well respected unless they want to leave.

As for the other girls leaving, some were poached by new clubs that had cash to splash.

Hoskings probably wanted out due to coaching set up and Harris kind of cut her nose off to spite her face.

I don’t like the large, constant draining out of our team, but other teams have copped it too.

If I’m honest the biggest turn off of the women’s league is the enormous player movement, teams like Melbourne, crows and to some extent north have seen very stable teams and results show!


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[BlueGum]

No worries as I mentioned I’m not what Darce is on and when I was talking about a veteran bonus or whatever you want to call it, it would be fairly small.
Just don’t see the need to move players on that have stuck fat in the lean times and are well respected unless they want to leave.

As for the other girls leaving, some were poached by new clubs that had cash to splash.

Hoskings probably wanted out due to coaching set up and Harris kind of cut her nose off to spite her face.

I don’t like the large, constant draining out of our team, but other teams have copped it too.

If I’m honest the biggest turn off of the women’s league is the enormous player movement, teams like Melbourne, crows and to some extent north have seen very stable teams and results show!


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Up to the club to create that for Carlton. Despite the finish, this season has been a step in the right direction

 

[katmanblue]

Sorry LOL can’t agree “if Darcy is happy to continue on a wage commensurate to her (your word, I would be lynched for that pronoun) out put on the field PLUS a veterans / “Carlton person” bonus I think that’s very fair”

There is a salary cap. Other clubs have used pay restraints (+ off field tempters) to poach a long line of our players while we only get draftees, state leaguers and veterans (albeit some decent ones) discarded by their teams. Vescio’s best is dynamic, but we see it way too rarely, if at all these days.

Hey, on a good day, we get about five minutes of it. That's not nothing.

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[katmanblue]

No worries as I mentioned I’m not what Darce is on and when I was talking about a veteran bonus or whatever you want to call it, it would be fairly small.
Just don’t see the need to move players on that have stuck fat in the lean times and are well respected unless they want to leave.

As for the other girls leaving, some were poached by new clubs that had cash to splash.

Hoskings probably wanted out due to coaching set up and Harris kind of cut her nose off to spite her face.

I don’t like the large, constant draining out of our team, but other teams have copped it too.

If I’m honest the biggest turn off of the women’s league is the enormous player movement, teams like Melbourne, crows and to some extent north have seen very stable teams and results show!


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Other teams have copped it, but not on the scale of ours.

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[katmanblue]

Up to the club to create that for Carlton. Despite the finish, this season has been a step in the right direction

Agree with that.

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[Teen Wolf]

Vescio was still the highest-paid player this season despite not being on a Tier 1 contract anymore, given that unlimited money can be paid to the 2 players with the biggest additional services agreement, which falls outside the $100,000 ASA cap (a rule which goes away at the end of next season, with the exception of Molloy's contract at Sydney).

In 2021, when the Harris hooha was happening, Cain Liddle said Vescio and Peterson were those two players (link to radio interview now broken unfortunately).

In 2023, a sponsor of Carlton's AFLW team released a video game with Vescio on the front cover. Stuff like that is what ASAs are for, and the players that appear the most in promotional material obviously have the biggest deals.

 

[Coona Blues]

Vescio was still the highest-paid player this season despite not being on a Tier 1 contract anymore, given that unlimited money can be paid to the 2 players with the biggest additional services agreement, which falls outside the $100,000 ASA cap (a rule which goes away at the end of next season, with the exception of Molloy's contract at Sydney).

In 2021, when the Harris hooha was happening, Cain Liddle said Vescio and Peterson were those two players (link to radio interview now broken unfortunately).

In 2023, a sponsor of Carlton's AFLW team released a video game with Vescio on the front cover. Stuff like that is what ASAs are for, and the players that appear the most in promotional material obviously have the biggest deals.

Thanks for that TW (you are a great “source”)

 

[lily of laguna]

Still no news on Ronnie’s injury!!
Hopefully that means it was just a tweak and no damage done.
Didn’t catch the game after quarter time, was there any mention during the broadcast?


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[Jimmae]

Vescio was still the highest-paid player this season despite not being on a Tier 1 contract anymore, given that unlimited money can be paid to the 2 players with the biggest additional services agreement, which falls outside the $100,000 ASA cap (a rule which goes away at the end of next season, with the exception of Molloy's contract at Sydney).

In 2021, when the Harris hooha was happening, Cain Liddle said Vescio and Peterson were those two players (link to radio interview now broken unfortunately).

In 2023, a sponsor of Carlton's AFLW team released a video game with Vescio on the front cover. Stuff like that is what ASAs are for, and the players that appear the most in promotional material obviously have the biggest deals.

Vescio is on staff at the club as a graphic designer, and arrangements like that to promote full-time work in industry for players is why ASAs have been unlimited for 2 players and relatively generous compared to TPP.

That's not really the same as how AFLM ASAs tend to work, though both leagues include salaries for club staff roles and opportunities from club partners/known affiliates.

 

[Teen Wolf]

Vescio is on staff at the club as a graphic designer, and arrangements like that to promote full-time work in industry for players is why ASAs have been unlimited for 2 players and relatively generous compared to TPP.

That's not really the same as how AFLM ASAs tend to work, though both leagues include salaries for club staff roles and opportunities from club partners/known affiliates.

When Vescio had (and it was quite a while ago) a job at the club as a graphic designer, it fell under the umbrella of employment agreements (which is not a playing contract nor an ASA).

The AFLW CBA has always been clear about the purpose of ASAs. They're for appearing in promotional material and events (i.e. exactly like the men's league):

https://cdn.aflplayers.com.au/app/uploads/2023/10/2023-2027-AFL-and-AFLW-CBA-MASTER-LONG-FORM-FINAL-DISTRIBUTION-VERSION.pdf

A Player may contract with a Club and/or Club Sponsor to derive payments as a direct result of bona fide promotions/marketing by that Player and the definition of Football Payments. Such arrangements are “Additional Services Agreements” and are separate and distinct from the Standard Playing Contract which regulates the employment of a Player to play Australian Football for a Club.

 

[Jimmae]

When Vescio had (and it was quite a while ago) a job at the club as a graphic designer, it fell under the umbrella of employment agreements (which is not a playing contract nor an ASA).

The AFLW CBA has always been clear about the purpose of ASAs. They're for appearing in promotional material and events (i.e. exactly like the men's league):

https://cdn.aflplayers.com.au/app/uploads/2023/10/2023-2027-AFL-and-AFLW-CBA-MASTER-LONG-FORM-FINAL-DISTRIBUTION-VERSION.pdf

(b) Additional Service Agreements may be for services/uses including the following:

(iv) providing other bona fide additional services including but not limited to media content for the AFL Club or Club partners

The only caveat is that payments cannot exceed a players salary.

 

[Teen Wolf]

(b) Additional Service Agreements may be for services/uses including the following:

(iv) providing other bona fide additional services including but not limited to media content for the AFL Club or Club partners

The only caveat is that payments cannot exceed a players salary.

(b) (iv) is in the new AFLW CBA (not the old ones), which was created after Vescio's contracts were signed. I was quoting from an old AFLW CBA which is, ironically, the relevant document in this case.

ASA payments can absolutely exceed AFLW player salaries.

 

[Jimmae]

(b) (iv) is in the new AFLW CBA (not the old ones), which was created after Vescio's contracts were signed. I was quoting from an old AFLW CBA which is, ironically, the relevant document in this case.

ASA payments can absolutely exceed AFLW player salaries.

I think I'm reciting a mix of the old AFLM and the new joint AFL, so I'll take your word for it. Happy to stand corrected!

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

I would be lynched for that pronoun

Come on Coona, that's not really true. People misspeak all the time in this regard, commentators included.

It's only when people do it deliberately to highlight their lack of acceptance that others take them to task.

 

[Coona Blues]

Come on Coona, that's not really true. People misspeak all the time in this regard, commentators included.

It's only when people do it deliberately to highlight their lack of acceptance that others take them to task.

Why did you have to go there ODN?

I am older than most on here, and I have experienced a lot of life. You are aware that I am, to say the least, annoyed at the modern “woke” (for want of a better term attitude. Emanating from the academics and self professed “informed” society, we have had some ludicrous alterations to what is acceptable. I live in a regional Queensland town(technically city) and real life in my community is far from that the minders of this forum have adopted as “normal”. We are not subnormal, we are real. Society is way too contrived by people afraid to embrace the new normal. Then people who “embrace” that thinking set about vilifying those of us who do not comply.

You have wound me up mate, if I write what I am thinking it will be lucky to last 5 minutes, but us so very relevant to society. As a 60 plus father of a 7 year old girl already asking questions she shouldn’t have to when trying to find her way in this world which is ever growing in complexity and “tolerance” to so many different groups and philosophies and their overt self promotion. These groups and views collide with increasing frequency. “Life” is heading down a very dark path from which there is little lope of coming back.

Sexuality has always been challenging, the social and physiological awakenings. The “quickening” (Nostradamus’s term”) with social media, working from home, door dash and growing remote “interaction” as opposed to even fleeting social interaction creates more social ineptitude than there has ever been. “Love” emanates more and more from social opportunity for “experimenting”, as opposed to “normal” growth while various group who are absolutely entitled to tolerance and acceptance are being glorified and promoted through public figures and public events.

I hate being triggered and ranting, but it is so bloody hard already giving my daughter the tools to survive, let alone thrive.

Edit: Oh look there is a story on remote teaching. Let’s teach our little ones by bloody zoom.