The Law Alcopop taxes plan to halt child drinking

[campbell]

Except the alcoholism, brain and liver damage burdening their health system.

and our health system as well, unfortunately.

 

[fairdinkum]

Interesting argument that writer puts forward, Meds, although a little hyperbolic and emotive for mine.

I take it that you were persuaded (to the writer's contention) by the cost to the public purse?

 

[campbell]

You only have to work in an ED on a Friday or Saturday night, to see the cost to the public purse. Around 10pm they start rolling in.

 

[fairdinkum]

You only have to work in an ED on a Friday or Saturday night, to see the cost to the public purse. Around 10pm they start rolling in.

I am not doubting the cost to the public purse (although I do have a theory about the economic benefits of the alcoholic society).

What I am doubting is whether alcohol should taxed more to lower consumption, even if it could be proved beyond doubt that alcohol was a net drain on the public purse.

 

[campbell]

I am not doubting the cost to the public purse (although I do have a theory about the economic benefits of the alcoholic society).

What I am doubting is whether alcohol should taxed more to lower consumption, even if it could be proved beyond doubt that alcohol was a net drain on the public purse.

mmm. whats your theory?

I think that something has to be done, as this current generation have serious longterm health issues, from their poor diets and binge drinking.

 

[fairdinkum]

mmm. whats your theory?

People spend more when drinking, and the pastime of going out specifically to drink in itself is a big money-spinner. Look at the countless people employed in hospitality whose jobs would disappear if we were to stamp out our alcoholic culture. And look at the great number of people, particularly in my generation, who would lose incentive to work as much as they do if you took away the one thing in their life that makes it all worthwhile: their 'big weekends'.

When assessing the net economic impact of our drinking culture, I think one must take into account the enormous driver that this culture is in our economy.

I think that something has to be done, as this current generation have serious longterm health issues, from their poor diets and binge drinking.

Yes, yes, the government must come to the rescue yet again.

 

[medusala]

Interesting argument that writer puts forward, Meds, although a little hyperbolic and emotive for mine.

I take it that you were persuaded (to the writer's contention) by the cost to the public purse?

Ish. The UK has a bit of history re this. Apparently the old Gin Lane days were an absolute nightmare.

 

[LIONS then DAYLIGHT]

mmm. whats your theory?

I think that something has to be done, as this current generation have serious longterm health issues, from their poor diets and binge drinking.

In the words of the great Noel Gallagher "Get off your high horse lady"

It is not just teenagers that have a problem with binge drinking, or young people between 18 - 26. First of all, you have got to die of something some people may wish to eat pizza every day, or drink a carton a day, it's their choice. Lets not forget that.

Late last year i was asked if i wanted to go fishing with some of my dad's mates. They were going on an ex-pro boat that they owned (6 or 7 of them) out to the local reef. When i was asked it was with a disclaimer, that if i were to come on the boat, then i would have to "do my duty".

Intrigued, i asked what the duty would entail. I was ment with the reply of "drink as much as you can"!!!

Im 22, these guys were in the mid to late 50's and they drink like gods, one guy they call the "supertanker" because he can drink so damn much and he doenst get drunk.

This problem is not just confined to the youth.

 

[Chief]

People spend more when drinking, and the pastime of going out specifically to drink in itself is a big money-spinner. Look at the countless people employed in hospitality whose jobs would disappear if we were to stamp out our alcoholic culture. And look at the great number of people, particularly in my generation, who would lose incentive to work as much as they do if you took away the one thing in their life that makes it all worthwhile: their 'big weekends'.

Are you saying that teetotallers do no work?

Are you saying that people in 'your' generation need to be able to partially obliterate memory of their weekend in order to front up for work??

 

[Upgrayedd]

Since Alcohol has been created we have always had the problems with it, Addiction, Health, Crime Why do people think we can solve these problems? they will continue untill the consumption of alcohol is banned all together, and that sounds like a hell of a popular Idea

Accept these things will happen to a degree, try to teach people to be responcible rather then easy fix solutions, and move on

 

[LIONS then DAYLIGHT]

People spend more when drinking, and the pastime of going out specifically to drink in itself is a big money-spinner. Look at the countless people employed in hospitality whose jobs would disappear if we were to stamp out our alcoholic culture. And look at the great number of people, particularly in my generation, who would lose incentive to work as much as they do if you took away the one thing in their life that makes it all worthwhile: their 'big weekends'.

When assessing the net economic impact of our drinking culture, I think one must take into account the enormous driver that this culture is in our economy.



Yes, yes, the government must come to the rescue yet again.

That is a classic. Absolute classic, sums up the Gen Y perfectly and proves it to be the most self-absorbed generation in the history of the world.

I work, why? To get me through to the "big weekend"

 

[fairdinkum]

Are you saying that teetotallers do no work?

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying, Chief, the most stable genius,.



Come on, you are better than such a blatant strawman argument.

Are you saying that people in 'your' generation need to be able to partially obliterate memory of their weekend in order to front up for work??

Actually, I think I said it best the first time round and so, for your benefit, I will quote it once more:

And look at the great number of people, particularly in my generation, who would lose incentive to work as much as they do if you took away the one thing in their life that makes it all worthwhile: their 'big weekends'.

I'm not sure how many young people you deal with on a regular basis, Chief, the most stable genius,, but as you could probably imagine, I deal with a lot. And I know of many whose lives genuinely revolve around their binge weekends. They may change jobs at regular intervals; they may change homes at regular intervals. But what doesn't change is a focus on Friday/Saturday night.

If you don't think that this, then, is a prime motivator for them taking the extra shift at the casual place of employment, or finding a new job as soon as possible after the old one dries up, or finding a second job to compliment the first, then I am happy to agree to disagree. But I think you would be naive if you held that view.

 

[fairdinkum]

That is a classic. Absolute classic, sums up the Gen Y perfectly and proves it to be the most self-absorbed generation in the history of the world.

I work, why? To get me through to the "big weekend"

Are you agreeing with me or disagreeing with me?

I know of one guy who tried to get himself through a 'dirty 30' the other day whilst watching the cricket. Only got to 23 cans in the end, but I digress.

Wonder where he got the money for that?

 

[Chief]

If you don't think that this, then, is a prime motivator for them taking the extra shift at the casual place of employment, or finding a new job as soon as possible after the old one dries up, or finding a second job to compliment the first, then I am happy to agree to disagree. But I think you would be naive if you held that view.

If you don't think that if they gave up the grog they couldn't quickly find another motivator then you I think you would be naive if you held that view.

You're basically saying that young drinkers work harder and more diligently than non-drinkers, whether you think that's a straw man or not.

 

[fairdinkum]

If you don't think that if they gave up the grog they couldn't quickly find another motivator then you I think you would be naive if you held that view.

And just what do you think many of them might substitute in the place of alcohol, Chief, the most stable genius,?

You're basically saying that young drinkers work harder and more diligently than non-drinkers, whether you think that's a straw man or not.

No, I am not saying that at all.

I don't see how you could have interpreted what I said in that way.

Do you accept the free market argument that we are inclined to work more/harder to get the things we want as individuals? I'm sure you do.

I am saying that for a lot of people (and note that I used the term 'particularly' -- not 'exclusively' -- when referring to my own generation) the thing most anticipated is the weekend piss-up.

My argument is not hard to follow.

 

[fairdinkum]

Hadn't seen this.

Coalition will back $1.6bn alcopop tax hike

THE Coalition will back the Government's $1.6 billion tax hike on alcopops, despite voting against the measure just three months ago.

Opposition Health Spokesman Peter Dutton announced the backflip as the Government prepared to introduce the bill, a potential double dissolution trigger, to the lower house.

The bill will ensure the 70 per cent excise hike applied to sweetened pre-mixed drinks such as rum and coke in a can or vodka and citrus in a bottle stays in place in perpetuity.

The Opposition joined forces with Family First Senator Steve Fielding in March to vote down an identical bill in the upper house, where Labor lacks a majority, arguing the measure had failed in its aim of curbing binge drinking among teenage girls.

Mr Dutton said that argument still stood, but the economic circumstances facing the nation had changed.

"The Government has plunged us into record debt and the reality is that this is got to be paid for somehow … that’s the reason for our decision today,’’ he told reporters.

The Government had made clear, however, the alcopops bill could be used to send the nation to an early election, if knocked back by the Senate a second time.

Interesting timing.

 

[Chief]

No, I am not saying that at all.

I don't see how you could have interpreted what I said in that way.

Do you accept the free market argument that we are inclined to work more/harder to get the things we want as individuals? I'm sure you do.

I am saying that for a lot of people (and note that I used the term 'particularly' -- not 'exclusively' -- when referring to my own generation) the thing most anticipated is the weekend piss-up.

My argument is not hard to follow.

Your argument is that alcohol is the carrot that drives people to work harder.

It follows that you think that people will not work as hard without alcohol.

It follows that you think non-drinkers do not work as hard as drinkers.

The argument is easy to follow. You just don't know your own argument.

 

[fairdinkum]

Your argument is that alcohol is the carrot that drives people to work harder.

1) Not sure I said 'harder'.

2) I clearly bounded my claim to a subsection of the populace.

It follows that you think that people will not work as hard without alcohol.

1) Again, not sure I said 'hard'.

2) Again, I was clearly talking about a small subsection of the populace -- your claim here makes it sound as though I was referring to all people.

It follows that you think non-drinkers do not work as hard as drinkers.

Uh, no, it does not.

As I said earlier, you are normally much better than this.

 

[SHAKESPEARE]

Libs avoiding the DD. Good work from them to backtrack, as they don't want to head to the polls with the current lineup.

All we need is Labor to force the web filter down now that the Libs have shown their cards.

 

[Smiling Buddha]

This thread and this other thread make for very interesting reading.

Some people were spot on with their predictions on the outcome of this tax. Others were not.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/lifesty...llion-in-revenue/story-fni0dgmf-1226650824648

A federally-funded study to be released today reveals the tax has not dinted the number of teenagers and young people with alcohol-related injuries.

Former prime minister Kevin Rudd slapped a 70 per cent tax increase on pre-mixed drinks - dubbed "alcopops" - in 2008 to try to curb binge drinking.

But a new University of Queensland analysis of 87,665 alcohol-related visits to hospital emergency departments over three years has found the tax made no difference.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/lifesty...llion-in-revenue/story-fni0dgmf-1226650824648

 

[Power Raid]

This thread and this other thread make for very interesting reading.

Some people were spot on with their predictions on the outcome of this tax. Others were not.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/lifesty...llion-in-revenue/story-fni0dgmf-1226650824648

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/lifesty...llion-in-revenue/story-fni0dgmf-1226650824648

I think it is a divide and concur strategy

A government would fail if tried to put an additional tax on all alcohol or tried to ban it. However, if they started by attacking kids they will have the support of 90% of the voters saying "the kids of these days".

The tax then creeps from one product to the next until like tobacco it is wiped from our culture.

Alcohol has a place in society but just not in the quantum and consumption habits of many. I would support a tax that saw a case of beer, a 750ml bottle of spirits and 1 ltr of wine costing a minimum of $100.

 

[chelseagle]

Strangely enough, the tax on alcopops spurred a rise in cider.

 

[Silent Alarm]

As someone who was underage just a couple of years ago, there is absolutely no way you're ever going to curb it.

Teenage Australia has a fair bit of disposable income. They don't pay for anything but their own things, and usually have a weekend job. Of course they're going to go the cheapest alcoholic option, but even if you're charging $40 for four Raspberry Cruisers, people will still buy them. Then you have the blokes who tend to get a carton or two of beer off their dad, brother, someone at the footy club... The rung below that are the 14/15 year olds who are sneaking out and drinking a concoction of their parent's shit (shit being the operative word).

For as long as you have bogans or kids trying to impress their mates, or kids just being uneducated, you'll have stomach pumps and stolen mailboxes.

Most of the kids I went to school with (agonisingly middle class, white) probably drank once every month. They'd get some alcohol through someone older, drink about five beers, go on about how pissed they were, mack a girl they liked, and go home. They didn't drink more because they knew their parents wouldn't like it, and they didn't drink less because their parents were fine with it – sparingly. As long as your olds have a decent grasp on reality, accept the inevitability, and instill a "look, drinking can be great fun with your mates – but..." mentality, well, you'll be fine. And by fine, I mean never costing the public or private sector in any hospital visits, police trips home, or broken windows, and being no more a pisshead than most of middle class Australia.

Still worth taxing alcopops though. Should do it by the calorie...

 

[Upgrayedd]

Strangely enough, the tax on alcopops spurred a rise in cider.

A trend which was going to happen anyways in mirroring the US market. However a 300% rise in Cider is nothing to sneeze at

 

[Sydney Bloods]

So have the wowsers conceded this is nothing but a tax grab to limit the damage from an ever increasing budget deficit?