Rumour All GWS Rumour And Speculation Thread - Vol 2

[Knightmare]

Re: Cloke is the main target for GWS

Good post and Collingwood needs to make Cloke their no 1 priority this season to re-sign. Yes, more so than Pendlebury.

I'd rather loose Cloke than Pendlebury *not that you want to lose either* (but I have queries when Cloke hits around 28 whether he will be able to continue on the way he does at present - as a guy with such a big body the pressure on his knees will really hurt long term, but Pendlebury should be able to lean up as he nears 30 and last well into his 30s if he wants to).
I'm an advocate of the quality big man (since they are so much harder to get) but losing Pendlebury with his leadership, work ethic and on field play I'd class as even harder to replace. With James Stewart coming along next year he could with time replace Cloke, but you lose either Pendlebury or Cloke and our premiership window is closed because frankly Hawthorn and Carlton both have more talented lists and would both go well past us.

If we can go through the introduction of GWS + Gold Coast without losing a major player that shows just how strong the culture is and how great and unselfish our playing group really is. Additionally it keeps our premiership window going potentially for another 2-3 years depending on whether our star players can stay healthy.

 

[Fluro Boots]

Re: Cloke is the main target for GWS

I'd rather loose Cloke than Pendlebury *not that you want to lose either* (but I have queries when Cloke hits around 28 whether he will be able to continue on the way he does at present - as a guy with such a big body the pressure on his knees will really hurt long term, but Pendlebury should be able to lean up as he nears 30 and last well into his 30s if he wants to).
I'm an advocate of the quality big man (since they are so much harder to get) but losing Pendlebury with his leadership, work ethic and on field play I'd class as even harder to replace. With James Stewart coming along next year he could with time replace Cloke, but you lose either Pendlebury or Cloke and our premiership window is closed because frankly Hawthorn and Carlton both have more talented lists and would both go well past us.

If we can go through the introduction of GWS + Gold Coast without losing a major player that shows just how strong the culture is and how great and unselfish our playing group really is. Additionally it keeps our premiership window going potentially for another 2-3 years depending on whether our star players can stay healthy.

I'd probably be the same if i was a Collingwood supporter. I have a lot of respect for Travis but given the choice I'd keep Pendles first. Travis takes a lot of marks but doesn't kick enough goals to put himself ahead of Pendles for mine. I think with Dawes around to play FF im sure you could find or trade for a CHF that would probably not be as good as cloke but would fill his role easier than you'd find another Pendlebury.

 

[Ed D]

Re: Cloke is the main target for GWS

Geelong have showed that you can win premierships without elite forwards. It'd take a change in game plan but I don't think it'd mean the premiership window is shut without Cloke (not that I think he's leaving). A lot of games are still won in the clearances, so I agree, Pendlebury is more important to the team's future (that he's younger adds to it).

 

[Nicco_jj]

Re: Cloke is the main target for GWS

If they take cloke we'll just take Patton.

 

[soreplums]

Re: Cloke is the main target for GWS

More of a chance of him going to a Melbourne based club

 

[TradeDraft]

Re: Cloke is the main target for GWS

I'd probably be the same if i was a Collingwood supporter. I have a lot of respect for Travis but given the choice I'd keep Pendles first. Travis takes a lot of marks but doesn't kick enough goals to put himself ahead of Pendles for mine. I think with Dawes around to play FF im sure you could find or trade for a CHF that would probably not be as good as cloke but would fill his role easier than you'd find another Pendlebury.

Like what CHF for example mate?

 

[Fluro Boots]

Re: Cloke is the main target for GWS

Like what CHF for example mate?

I have no doubt Cloke would be hard to replace, however as Cloke doesn't kick massive amounts of goals i reckon you'd just need someone who can take a mark and get it forward. Think Cameron Mooney type, not a gun by any stretch but when playing with Geelongs strong side was very valuable and important. It's my belief you could find someone to do that easier than you could find another player of pendleburys caliber.

 

[mattys123]

Re: Cloke is the main target for GWS

I have no doubt Cloke would be hard to replace, however as Cloke doesn't kick massive amounts of goals i reckon you'd just need someone who can take a mark and get it forward. Think Cameron Mooney type, not a gun by any stretch but when playing with Geelongs strong side was very valuable and important. It's my belief you could find someone to do that easier than you could find another player of pendleburys caliber.

So by that reckoning, you'd rather lose Buddy Franklin then Luke Hodge.

Silly IMO, Cloke broke the record for the most contested marks in an AFL season last year, I'm not sure if Pendles holds any records.

Cloke is one of maybe 5 absolute class contested marking, versatile (can play inside and outside 50), goal kicking, leadership quality forwards in the AFL, yet midfielders like Pendles are more plentiful.

Yes, Pendlebury is near the top of the list for midfielders, but the depth behind him in terms of quality mids is much higher then that of quality tall forwards, especially ones who can clunk contested mark after contested mark, and each year the top 4-5 mids taking in the draft are guaranteed to be of a top quality, yet the same can't be said for the top 4-5 tall forwards.

Individual goal tallies are over rated in the modern game, an individual total of "goal assists" and "goal involvements" are just as, if not more important then goals and points tallies in the modern game.

I don't want to lose either, but if we had to lose one, it would be Scott, we could replace him with a slightly lesser quality mid through trade or either of our compensatory draft picks, but we would have next to no hope of replacing Cloke's role without getting very lucky in the draft (Jack Riewoldt type lucky).

 

[TradeDraft]

Re: Cloke is the main target for GWS

So by that reckoning, you'd rather lose Buddy Franklin then Luke Hodge.

Silly IMO, Cloke broke the record for the most contested marks in an AFL season last year, I'm not sure if Pendles holds any records.

Cloke is one of maybe 5 absolute class contested marking, versatile (can play inside and outside 50), goal kicking, leadership quality forwards in the AFL, yet midfielders like Pendles are more plentiful.

Yes, Pendlebury is near the top of the list for midfielders, but the depth behind him in terms of quality mids is much higher then that of quality tall forwards, especially ones who can clunk contested mark after contested mark, and each year the top 4-5 mids taking in the draft are guaranteed to be of a top quality, yet the same can't be said for the top 4-5 tall forwards.

Individual goal tallies are over rated in the modern game, an individual total of "goal assists" and "goal involvements" are just as, if not more important then goals and points tallies in the modern game.

I don't want to lose either, but if we had to lose one, it would be Scott, we could replace him with a slightly lesser quality mid through trade or either of our compensatory draft picks, but we would have next to no hope of replacing Cloke's role without getting very lucky in the draft (Jack Riewoldt type lucky).

Tend to Agree Cloke would be More Important to the Team then Scott.

I could See Sidebottom getting close to Pendles Level in a few years time

 

[blaze036]

Re: Cloke is the main target for GWS

Tend to Agree Cloke would be More Important to the Team then Scott.

*with our current structure.

Structures can be changed, in order to not focus so heavy on the CHF.

 

[Quicky]

Re: Cloke is the main target for GWS

*with our current structure.

Structures can be changed, in order to not focus so heavy on the CHF.

Sure. You can change your structures to get away with a lack of a good CHF. See the Bulldogs pre Barry. But do you think that lack of a good CHF (and in Cloke probably the 2nd best in the comp right now) gets you closer or further away from a premiership? Reality is if we lose Cloke we are absolutely boned in regards to our forward structure. If you think any different its wishful.

 

[blaze036]

Re: Cloke is the main target for GWS

Sure. You can change your structures to get away with a lack of a good CHF. See the Bulldogs pre Barry. But do you think that lack of a good CHF (and in Cloke probably the 2nd best in the comp right now) gets you closer or further away from a premiership? Reality is if we lose Cloke we are absolutely boned in regards to our forward structure. If you think any different its wishful.

I fully understand what a huge blow losing cloke would be, but the assumption that his more valuable than pendlebury because of our "current structure" is a little misguided.

If we had a implemented a structure that didnt focus so much on cloke in 2012, i have no doubt pendles would be head and shoulders more valuable throughout the whole season to the team. Cloke is a very very good target, but goal kicking lets him down. And lets not forgot just how very very very good pendles is, and by the way he plays i reckon he'll keep the standard up much like black.

If we do lose one, our 2013 premiership chances take a huge blow anyway. It does appear however that pendles would be far easier to replace using free agency, with us being linked to goddard and delidio.

Fingers crossed we dont lose a big name

 

[Gone Critical]

Re: Cloke is the main target for GWS

I am worried re the speculation on Cloke. Its highly likely GWS already hve signed their big fish and some in the industry would have an idea who. Speculation on Scully and Ablett began early

Don't like the Old Mans comments that they haven't thought about talks with Collingwood yet. The only reason I can think that a manager wouldn't have begun thinking about negotiating an upcoming contract is that they have already signed elsewhere

 

[Gone Critical]

Re: Cloke is the main target for GWS

Herald Sun article below


DAVID Cloke has denied his personal friendship with Greater Western Sydney football manager Graeme Allan will influence a decision on his son's future.

The Herald Sun revealed the Giants would make a $1.5million a year bid for Collingwood forward Travis Cloke.

The money is considered almost three times what the Magpies could realistically afford.

David Cloke, who represents his son, said his friendship with the GWS chief would not affect negotiations with the Magpies.

"If you took that option, I've got friends at lots of clubs," David Cloke said.

Collingwood's leading goalkicker is out of contract at the end of the year, but has not begun talks about a fresh deal.

"We haven't even thought about it as yet," David Cloke said on the AFL's website.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

Re: Cloke is the main target for GWS

It's all bullshit.

Eddie this morning on the Hot Breakfast said something he probably shouldn't have, and said he spoke to Gubby yesterday, and said Travis Cloke isn't happening.

I think too many aren't noticing the pattern that's been happening the last 2 years with the player raids.

Isn't anyone noticing the clubs the players (big name players) are being poached from? They're being poached from clubs that can't poach back on the back end.

Gubby has strong links at Collingwood. He won't screw with us as I'm sure there's an unspoken agreement that we won't screw with them later when the opportunity arises.

Carlton, Collingwood, Essendon, Richmond and Hawthrono have been untouched so far.

Coincidence? Doubt it.

 

[Gone Critical]

Re: Cloke is the main target for GWS

It's all bullshit.

Eddie this morning on the Hot Breakfast said something he probably shouldn't have, and said he spoke to Gubby yesterday, and said Travis Cloke isn't happening.

I think too many aren't noticing the pattern that's been happening the last 2 years with the player raids.

Isn't anyone noticing the clubs the players (big name players) are being poached from? They're being poached from clubs that can't poach back on the back end.

Gubby has strong links at Collingwood. He won't screw with us as I'm sure there's an unspoken agreement that we won't screw with them later when the opportunity arises.

Carlton, Collingwood, Essendon, Richmond and Hawthrono have been untouched so far.

Coincidence? Doubt it.

GAJ the best performed player in the comp at the time from the strongest side in the comp. He signed when Geelong were current premiers.

Not sure on that line of thinking. They will take whoever they can shake free. Club matters little to them. Players themselves will be harder to entice from a contending club but Ablett shows it has happened

If Travis has signed already one person who won't have been told is Eddie

 

[TradeDraft]

Re: Cloke is the main target for GWS

Herald Sun article below


DAVID Cloke has denied his personal friendship with Greater Western Sydney football manager Graeme Allan will influence a decision on his son's future.

The Herald Sun revealed the Giants would make a $1.5million a year bid for Collingwood forward Travis Cloke.

The money is considered almost three times what the Magpies could realistically afford.

David Cloke, who represents his son, said his friendship with the GWS chief would not affect negotiations with the Magpies.

"If you took that option, I've got friends at lots of clubs," David Cloke said.

Collingwood's leading goalkicker is out of contract at the end of the year, but has not begun talks about a fresh deal.

"We haven't even thought about it as yet," David Cloke said on the AFL's website.

The Season has not even Started but David has know to say stuff to get what he Wants

 

[Ed D]

Re: Cloke is the main target for GWS

GAJ the best performed player in the comp at the time from the strongest side in the comp. He signed when Geelong were current premiers.

Not sure on that line of thinking. They will take whoever they can shake free. Club matters little to them. Players themselves will be harder to entice from a contending club but Ablett shows it has happened

If Travis has signed already one person who won't have been told is Eddie

It's my understanding that GC signed all their players who were unhappy with their current clubs. GWS on the other hand have massively overpaid young unproven players who hadn't built up enough club loyalty or made themselves the stars of their team. I think it'll be very hard for them to get a proven gun who is established in a team, happy with where they're at and already on alrght pay.

 

[4#Didak#4]

Re: Cloke is the main target for GWS

GWS will have put the feelers out to a number of players who are out of contract. They will want to land at least one big fish & with the amount of midfielders they have got they would be mad not to hunt a key posi player like Hurley or Cloke.

It is going to be more difficult for us as we have 2 gun players out of contract meaning we have to try & come up with two very good deals at the same time on the back of big deals for Thomas & Swan. GWS will try & exploit that. All we can do is hope that the promise of success and the after footy spoils a CFC player can enjoy will be enough for the players to stay.

We must remember Cloke stayed for an average deal not long ago. Since then he has become one of the most dominant forwards in the AFL. He would expect (more notably his management in David) a much improved deal which reflects his status. As such it wouldn't surprise me if he went and we couldn't get near what he needs.

Having to choose between Cloke & Pendles is just cruel.

 

[Gone Critical]

Re: Cloke is the main target for GWS

]It's my understanding that GC signed all their players who were unhappy with their current club[/B]s. GWS on the other hand have massively overpaid young unproven players who hadn't built up enough club loyalty or made themselves the stars of their team. I think it'll be very hard for them to get a proven gun who is established in a team, happy with where they're at and already on alrght pay.

GAJ argues against that line of thinking.

Wasn't aware Bock or Harbrow had any beef with their club

 

[Fluro Boots]

Re: Cloke is the main target for GWS

So by that reckoning, you'd rather lose Buddy Franklin then Luke Hodge.

Silly IMO, Cloke broke the record for the most contested marks in an AFL season last year, I'm not sure if Pendles holds any records.

Cloke is one of maybe 5 absolute class contested marking, versatile (can play inside and outside 50), goal kicking, leadership quality forwards in the AFL, yet midfielders like Pendles are more plentiful.

Yes, Pendlebury is near the top of the list for midfielders, but the depth behind him in terms of quality mids is much higher then that of quality tall forwards, especially ones who can clunk contested mark after contested mark, and each year the top 4-5 mids taking in the draft are guaranteed to be of a top quality, yet the same can't be said for the top 4-5 tall forwards.

Individual goal tallies are over rated in the modern game, an individual total of "goal assists" and "goal involvements" are just as, if not more important then goals and points tallies in the modern game.

I don't want to lose either, but if we had to lose one, it would be Scott, we could replace him with a slightly lesser quality mid through trade or either of our compensatory draft picks, but we would have next to no hope of replacing Cloke's role without getting very lucky in the draft (Jack Riewoldt type lucky).

Yeah probably a fair point, i hope you don't lose either. I'd much rather see them get Hurley. Any promising KPF's coming through at collingwood?

 

[blaze036]

Re: Cloke is the main target for GWS

james Stewart F/S? dont know that much about him though

 

[Ed D]

Re: Cloke is the main target for GWS

GAJ argues against that line of thinking.

Wasn't aware Bock or Harbrow had any beef with their club

Gary might not admit it but he and Bomber weren't seeing eye to eye, the club was paying him unders on (I think) a 5 year deal and refused to increase his wage after he got into Browlow form. He had everyone comparing him to his dad and he was the hype of a one team town. He had also won everything that had been possible and wanted a new challenge. Captaincy would have also been a factor which I'm sure Geelong wouldn't have given him. That all adds up to someone leaving when they throw big money.

Bock was in the papers all the time in Adelaide. Again when you have that much focus on one player and a lot of it is negative it adds to leaving. I'm sure club suspensions, the money and him being injured had a lot to do with it too. I don't know what the story with Harbrow was, I think I read something but lets just say he left for a huge cash increase and signed before he had his breakout year! He's being paid overs for being a good average player.

And lets not forget that the Gold Coast is a nice place to live!

 

[Bay Pie]

Re: Cloke is the main target for GWS

Fluro Boots, Trav kicked 69 goals last year and 40 in 2010, 2008 & 2007 when he had the yips.

Trav kicked 3 goals in both the GF and PF in 2011.

2007 PF he kicked 3
2010 PF kicked 3
2010 GF1 kicked 2
2010 GF replay 0

Travis kicks goals in the 2 biggest games of the year when everything is on the line.

He kicks enough goals for me. He also plays as a CHF not a FF.

 

[Bay Pie]

Re: Cloke is the main target for GWS

.

Bock was in the papers all the time in Adelaide. Again when you have that much focus on one player and a lot of it is negative it adds to leaving. I'm sure club suspensions, the money and him being injured had a lot to do with it too. I don't know what the story with Harbrow was, I think I read something but lets just say he left for a huge cash increase and signed before he had his breakout year! He's being paid overs for being a good average player.

And lets not forget that the Gold Coast is a nice place to live!

I think he's a Queenslander.