All things Politics

[Carringbush2010]

Oh, sigh, i already have.
You stated prior to copy pasting a defintion that the definition of capitalism was competition in a free market...

I replied thats not the definition, which it isnt.

Posts have directed you to the definition and meaning, but you ignore them.

As stated previously, its a great outcome if it is achieved, and numerously it is facilitated by market intervention, when market failures exists ie capitalism producing anti competitive outcomes.

A firm, will try to maximise revenue within capitalistic environment via anti competitive techniques.

Its ok, you are getting core concepts confused. You can have and do have competition with public sector agencies, thats not capitalistic based

Umm, no you're confusing price gouging / profiteering / eradication with the actual definition of purpose of capitalism.

The whole idea, and I can't explain it any clearer, is that capitalism's purpose IS to drive competition in a free market.

What we're experiencing now is NOT capitalism, do you get it now?

 

[cliffdrabble]

You think we have capitalism now? Then you'd be wrong.

Maybe look up the definition, there's nothing in there that says that price gouging is the intent by design of capitalism.

I think you're confusing capitalism as an ideology, sure those who oppose it have certainly hijacked the term that way. Doesn't make it an ideology though, it's an economic model and not a sentient one either.

Price gouging is the product of free market capitalism. I think it was Karl Marx who wrote that 'within the capitalist system are the seeds of its own destruction'. And we may be about to reach that point in the near future.

A free market will advantage those with more money and power and without strong regulation the capitalist system provides one of the worst human traits, greed, to run unchecked, as is happening as we speak. That is pure capitalism, the market decides. What we have is some form of mutation of capitalism, but is still capitalism for want of a better description.

It's a bit like communism. The only true communist societies exist in the kibbutzs in Israel, but some countries in history eg the former Soviet Union were called communist countries. Purity rarely exists.

Aside from medical issues, the entire problems of the world can be summed up in one word, greed.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Mamma mia. Are you just being obstinate or do you not get it?

We want there to be competition in our free market capitalist economy. We actually reduce the freedom of the market making it less capitalist in order to try to ensure that there is a level of competition, because free market capitalism doesn't always have competition. And as we move to a higher tech world of massive multinational corporations there is becoming less competition in a free market.

Then we're in agreement.

And as we move to a higher tech world of massive multinational corporations there is becoming less competition in a free market.

^ How many times do I have to explain this is NOT the purpose of capitalism?

You're confusing terms, 'capitalism' is NOT this. You're talking about price gouging, NOT capitalism.

Whatever term you wanna use, capitalism's purpose is NOT to eradicate competition, that is the purpose of the greedy.

 

[leon123]

Umm, no you're confusing price gouging / profiteering / eradication with the actual definition of purpose of capitalism.

The whole idea, and I can't explain it any clearer, is that capitalism's purpose IS to drive competition in a free market.

What we're experiencing now is NOT capitalism, do you get it now?

Im not confused at all, you are struggling to understand basics.

Do yourself a favour, borrow a year 10 micro and macro economics text, have a read and get back to me

 

[Carringbush2010]

Im not confused at all, you are struggling to understand basics.

Do yourself a favour, borrow a year 10 micro and macro economics text, have a read and get back to me

Do yourself a favour and re read the definition of capitalism, if you can't get the epiphany from that then no one can help you.

 

[leon123]

Do yourself a favour and re read the definition of capitalism, if you can't get the epiphany from that then no one can help you.

I dont need to, just keep going down your path of ignorance, you cant be helped.
I should have mentioned, im an economist by trade

 

[sr36]

Then we're in agreement.

And as we move to a higher tech world of massive multinational corporations there is becoming less competition in a free market.

^ How many times do I have to explain this is NOT the purpose of capitalism?

You're confusing terms, 'capitalism' is NOT this. You're talking about price gouging, NOT capitalism.

Whatever term you wanna use, capitalism's purpose is NOT to eradicate competition, that is the purpose of the greedy.

People have purposes - economic models don't.

The bizarre thing here is that you've started with the claim that criticising capitalism is self loathing, but are actually extremely critical of aspects of capitalism - yet are changing its meaning in order to talk positively about capitalism. It's like you've fallen in love with the word and are imagining it to be Scarlett Johansen - when it's a very different woman altogether. It's ok, capitalism can be your Scarlett, just don't expect anyone else to think she is Scarlett.

 

[cliffdrabble]

Nothing better than seeing incompetent arseholes make terrible decisions then seek to solve their problems by raising taxes. The temporary land tax levy will be about as temporary as the Pyramids.

Sounds like a great excuse to use all the benefits these so called incompetent arseholes have provided when you use the roads provided, the education system, the health system ect, ect and avoid contributing as little as possible to their continuation. People who have this whinge are also often happy to use the tax system to enrich themselves through things like negative gearing

Individuals also make terrible decisions and waste money. What is the figure in the restaurant industry? 99% failure rate in the first 5 years. Employees lose money, suppliers lose money. Should we call the owners incompetent arseholes? No system is perfect.

I remember Michael Palin of Monty Python fame writing a letter to the Times in England pointing out the hypocrisy of this constant whinge about taxes. He stated how lucky in life he had been and made millions of pounds and was happy to pay his fair share of tax because it was going toward wonderful people like nurses, doctors, teachers ect

The opposite side of the coin is to avoid taxes so we can bring the entire system of Government to its knees and let the real arseholes take over.

 

[NMBB]

A google search.

an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit.
"an era of free-market capitalism"

Tell me again that capitalism is not about free market.

What is your definition? Is it to corner the market and eradicate competition? Like what we have now?

The same as w*****s that use woke as a term to define irrational political correctness, when that term has zero to to do with irrational political correctness.

In addition to "free markets" (means something different in every country), an essential component of capitalism is majority private ownership of capital.

PS. Markets are rarely entirely "free". Australia has the ACCC (how effective it is is beside the point) It exists, has powers and uses them.

Example:

Taking a toll: ACCC’s Transurban/Horizon call a sign of the times | Gilbert + Tobin Lawyers: Law Firm in Sydney, Melbourne & Perth

What has happened? On 21 September 2023, the ACCC announced its opposition to Transurban Group’s acquisition of a majority interest in Horizon Roads. Horizon Roads operates the EastLink toll road in Melbourne. The ACCC blocked the deal on the basis that it would “entrench” Transurban’s position...

www.gtlaw.com.au

 

[JB1975]

'Competition in a free market'

That is completely different to major corporates monopolizing the market and eradicating competition. Which is what we have now.

No mention of private property or profit, it seems a rather...limited and inaccurate definition.

'But I like that you've stumbled across a definition which perfectly fits the argument you're trying to make, and the quotation marks give it gravitas'.

I'll leave you to it.

 

[sideswipe]

Sounds like a great excuse to use all the benefits these so called incompetent arseholes have provided when you use the roads provided, the education system, the health system ect, ect and avoid contributing as little as possible to their continuation. People who have this whinge are also often happy to use the tax system to enrich themselves through things like negative gearing

Individuals also make terrible decisions and waste money. What is the figure in the restaurant industry? 99% failure rate in the first 5 years. Employees lose money, suppliers lose money. Should we call the owners incompetent arseholes? No system is perfect.

I remember Michael Palin of Monty Python fame writing a letter to the Times in England pointing out the hypocrisy of this constant whinge about taxes. He stated how lucky in life he had been and made millions of pounds and was happy to pay his fair share of tax because it was going toward wonderful people like nurses, doctors, teachers ect

The opposite side of the coin is to avoid taxes so we can bring the entire system of Government to its knees and let the real arseholes take over.

Seriously, who are the people paying minimal taxes? $500k of taxable income means 40% of your life is working for the State. That’s the reality of high earners.

You don’t sound like someone who has actually worked over the numbers on negative gearing.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Carringbush2010]

The bizarre thing here is that you've started with the claim that criticising capitalism is self loathing,

Nah uh, never ever stated this.

What I stated in that thread that there is anti capitalism, not self loathing.

There is certainly self loathing against liberal democracy

 

[Carringbush2010]

In addition to "free markets" (means something different in every country), an essential component of capitalism is majority private ownership of capital.

PS. Markets are rarely entirely "free". Australia has the ACCC (how effective it is is beside the point) It exists, has powers and uses them.

Example:

Taking a toll: ACCC’s Transurban/Horizon call a sign of the times | Gilbert + Tobin Lawyers: Law Firm in Sydney, Melbourne & Perth

What has happened? On 21 September 2023, the ACCC announced its opposition to Transurban Group’s acquisition of a majority interest in Horizon Roads. Horizon Roads operates the EastLink toll road in Melbourne. The ACCC blocked the deal on the basis that it would “entrench” Transurban’s position...

www.gtlaw.com.au

Well if it were 'entirely free' then we'd have monopolies wouldn't we.

Oh wait................

Edit, I'm not saying there isn't regulation, I'm saying it's weak and not in the spirit of capitalism.

 

[Markfs]

Where do you think the capital came from? People used land and labour to grow stuff, pick stuff and find stuff and swapped it for other stuff that was more valuable to them, building up their capital to grow more stuff make some weapons add some more land, capture some labour, grow more stuff make more stuff trade it for more stuff, etc ..

i dont even find this interesting but I just get frustrated at reading inaccuracy....so I should stop reading it

 

[sr36]

i dont even find this interesting but I just get frustrated at reading inaccuracy....so I should stop reading it

You might want to portray it as some unnatural demon that didn't exist before the industrial revolution, but the moment your kid learns the word "mine", they're capitalists, although extending mine to land probably comes a bit later.

 

[NMBB]

1. Well if it were 'entirely free' then we'd have monopolies wouldn't we.
2. Oh wait................
3. Edit, I'm not saying there isn't regulation, I'm saying it's weak and not in the spirit of capitalism.

1. Depending on the cost to enter the market, not necessarily - think fish and chip shops, computer repairs, gardeners, plumbers, internet suppliers, micro breweries, solicitors - cost of entry is low and not restricted - there's plenty of competition (some restrictions - plumbers need a licence, health regulations for fish and chip shops, solicitors' qualifications etc)

2. For what?

3. ?

 

[sr36]

Well if it were 'entirely free' then we'd have monopolies wouldn't we.

Oh wait................

Edit, I'm not saying there isn't regulation, I'm saying it's weak and not in the spirit of capitalism.

So basically like everyone else you want private enterprise that is regulated by the government and assumedly want the Government to also participate in the economy in areas that aren't profitable enough for private enterprise. But unlike most you consider government intervention and participation in the economy to be capitalism. And in terms of the basic principle of profit maximisation that is central to capitalism, you consider that to be the antithesis of capitalism? Does that sum it up?

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

I should have mentioned, im an economist by trade

'Leon 123 the economist'. Duly noted and added to the list.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

Then we're in agreement.

And as we move to a higher tech world of massive multinational corporations there is becoming less competition in a free market.

^ How many times do I have to explain this is NOT the purpose of capitalism?

You're confusing terms, 'capitalism' is NOT this. You're talking about price gouging, NOT capitalism.

Whatever term you wanna use, capitalism's purpose is NOT to eradicate competition, that is the purpose of the greedy.

The factor other than high tech here that limits competition is a small population. As pointed out in Four Corners last night - America has 5 large supermarket bodies whilst we only have 2 (Aldi only has 10% of the market). Our supermarket's margins are higher than those of the American companies. Competition in this sector of the economy is very limited.

 

[sr36]

The factor other than high tech here that limits competition is a small population. As pointed out in Four Corners last night - America has 5 large supermarket bodies whilst we only have 2 (Aldi only has 10% of the market). Our supermarket's margins are higher than those of the American companies. Competition in this sector of the economy is very limited.

Having 45 different inquiries into the supermarkets is such a crock of shit. By only having 2 big supermarket chains, they get to pocket an extra roughly 2% of revenue compared to supermarkets in bigger economies with more supermarket competition - about $5 a week for an average Aussie shop. But by them being huge, they take advantage of economies of scale and are about 25% cheaper than shopping at the general store. Economies of scale can trump extra competition in terms of saving consumers money.

 

[sr36]

Seriously, who are the people paying minimal taxes? $500k of taxable income means 40% of your life is working for the State. That’s the reality of high earners.

It is a pretty awful reality that some people have to make do on $30,000 a month. I'm not sure how they do it.

 

[sideswipe]

It is a pretty awful reality that some people have to make do on $30,000 a month. I'm not sure how they do it.

A decent home loan, a few ingrates in private school, etc etc.

The point was about progressive taxation. To generate the same amount of tax earn, the government needs about 9 people earning $100k or 28 earning $50k.

Hysterical calls that the world is ending because high earners look to minimise their tax bill are ridiculous. There are barely any avenues anymore. Compare it back to the good old days- Crocodile Dundee only got made because of the 10BA Tax Concessions.

 

[Maggie5]

Anyone watch Media Watch last night on the reporting of Israeli conflict? It isn't just Australia either, the USA media is just the same.

 

[Markfs]

You might want to portray it as some unnatural demon that didn't exist before the industrial revolution, but the moment your kid learns the word "mine", they're capitalists, although extending mine to land probably comes a bit later.

capitalism has allowed a whole generation of women to live on the proceeds of posting bikini photos....

 

[sr36]

capitalism has allowed a whole generation of women to live on the proceeds of posting bikini photos....

I agree that it isn't all bad.