All things Politics

[DinoSoar]

It is recognised that this is a fraught topic for any number of you posting here. Some of you will have family in Israel or Palestine. Some of you will have connections to either side of the conflict. What you need to understand is that this site has rules governing posting standards and the appropriate way to talk to other posters, and you will abide by them.

How this interacts with this thread is that the following will result in your post being deleted, with a recurrence of the same behaviour resulting in (depending on severity) a threadban for a week and a day off:

• direct labelling of someone as anti-semitic or a terrorist sympathiser for posting that is merely critical of Israel's response over time. Israel has the right to defend themselves from violence, but that does not mean that Israel has carte blanche to attack disproportionately towards people under their care.
• deliberate goading or flippant responses, designed to get people reacting to your posting emotionally.
• abuse.
• attempts to turn this into a Left vs Right shitfight.
• Use the word 'Nazi' in here, you had better be able to justify it in the post you're making and the comparison had better be apt. Godwin's law is in full effect for the purposes of this thread; if you refer to Nazis, you've lost whatever argument you're involved in.
• Any defense of Hamas' actions on the basis of justification. There's no justification for genocide, regardless of whether or not they have the power to do so.

Please recognise that this is a difficult time for all involved, and some level of sensitivity is absolutely required to permit discussion to flow. From time to time, mods will reach out to specific posters and do some welfare checks; we may even give posters who get a bit too involved some days off to give people some time to cool down. This is not a reflection on you as a poster, merely that this is an intense subject.

I get that this is a fairly intense topic about which opinion can diverge rather significantly. If you feel you cannot be respectful in your disagreement with another poster, it is frequently better to refuse to engage than it is to take up the call.

From this point, any poster who finds themselves directly insulting another poster will find themselves receiving a threadban and an infraction, with each subsequent reoccurance resulting in steadily more points added to your account.

It has also become apparent that this needs to be said: just because someone moderates this forum that does not hold them to a different standard of posting than anyone else. All of us were posters first, and we are allowed to hold opinions on this and share them on this forum.

Treat each other with the respect each of you deserve.

Maggie5 Gone Critical Anzacday Jen2310

 

[IlovethePies]

The point that none are trotskiites.... it's shameful, ilovey.

I understand, you're a stream of consicousness kind of guy..you just post a stream of consciousness...whatever torrent of disconnected, disoriented and confused conceptions flow out of your mind, which then transmits via electrical impulses motion to your fingers which then type it out automatically on the keyboard.
You stand for nothing except cynicism.

 

[sr36]

I understand, you're a stream of consicousness kind of guy..you just post a stream of consciousness...whatever torrent of disconnected, disoriented and confused conceptions flow out of your mind, which then transmits via electrical impulses motion to your fingers which then type it out automatically on the keyboard.
You stand for nothing except cynicism.

You fire a lot of potshots for a bloke who thinks he's all about unity and a borderless love in.

 

[IlovethePies]

You fire a lot of potshots for a bloke who thinks he's all about unity and a borderless love in.

Whoever mocks the memory of trotsky and what he stood for deserves a few potshots.

 

[WalterBlaknWhte]

Disgusting comment. Thought you were better than that. Turns out that you are no different, just as ignorant and cynical.

JB1975 (climbing onto boat) is actually a Bitcoin Bro toying with you

I fee cheated on your behalf

​

 

[sr36]

Whoever mocks the memory of trotsky and what he stood for deserves a few potshots.

Cultish deference is one of the more ironic aspects of visions of equality.

 

[IlovethePies]

Cultish deference is one of the more ironic aspects of visions of equality.

I think you have a cultish worship of capitalism. The adjective "cultish" is a common word used by those who love the status quo to ridicule those who wish to change it.

 

[sr36]

I think you have a cultish worship of capitalism.

Mixed economy all the way Bolshy bro.
Anyone preaching fully free market or fully planned is stuck in the 50s.
The only debate is about the mix.

 

[IlovethePies]

Mixed economy all the way Bolshy bro.
Anyone preaching fully free market or fully planned is stuck in the 50s.
The only debate is about the mix.

Ignorance would be such a comfortable state to live in. I envy you.

 

[WalterBlaknWhte]

I think you have a cultish worship of capitalism. The adjective "cultish" is a common word used by those who love the status quo to ridicule those who wish to change it.

Exactly!

And this is why Pol Pot had to take out the teachers like Savvy

Onwards

 

[IlovethePies]

Exactly!

And this is why Pol Pot had to take out the teachers like Savvy

Onwards

Not sure why you are referring to Pol Pot. Because Pol Pot had absolutely nothing to do with socialism, if that is what you are implying.

 

[WalterBlaknWhte]

Not sure why you are referring to Pol Pot. Because Pol Pot had absolutely nothing to do with socialism, if that is what you are implying.

That's rubbish

I visited 2 of Pol Pot's gaols

Concrete brutalism, poor food choices, no smiling

Reminds me of every other socialist nation I have been to

 

[jathanas]

Whoever mocks the memory of trotsky and what he stood for deserves a few potshots.

Don't be a killjoy.

Icepick memes and descriptions of Trotskyites as weird losers are de rigueur.

 

[IlovethePies]

That's rubbish

I visited 2 of Pol Pot's gaols

Concrete brutalism, poor food choices, no smiling

Reminds me of every other socialist nation I have been to

Which just goes to show that are ignorant of history. Because Trotsky opposed Stalinism, and what you saw in Cambodia and in other so called "socialist"" countries was Stalinism- the antithesis of genuine socialism.
Trotsky was murdered by a Stalinist agent, because Stalin was terrified of what Trotsky represented.
The greatest lie of the 20th century was that Stalinism = socialism. This lie was used both by the Soviet government and its satellites in Eastern Europe to dupe those in the working class who were looking for socialism. It was used by capitalist politicians to slander the name of socialism.
Your understanding of what socialism is, is what the capitalist politicians and capitalist media have pumped out for decades.

 

[IlovethePies]

Don't be a killjoy.

Icepick memes and descriptions of Trotskyites as weird losers are de rigueur.

ok...you clearly inhabit a region of the net that I have never been to, and clearly don't intend to go to

 

[leon123]

Which just goes to show that are ignorant of history. Because Trotsky opposed Stalinism, and what you saw in Cambodia and in other so called "socialist"" countries was Stalinism- the antithesis of genuine socialism.
Trotsky was murdered by a Stalinist agent, because Stalin was terrified of what Trotsky represented.
The greatest lie of the 20th century was that Stalinism = socialism. This lie was used both by the Soviet government and its satellites in Eastern Europe to dupe those in the working class who were looking for socialism. It was used by capitalist politicians to slander the name of socialism.
Your understanding of what socialism is, is what the capitalist politicians and capitalist media have pumped out for decades.

I do favour a little mix in an economy, bit of socialism, capitalism and throw in a bit of corruption (the pineapple pizza kind)

 

[Markfs]

I understand, you're a stream of consicousness kind of guy..you just post a stream of consciousness...whatever torrent of disconnected, disoriented and confused conceptions flow out of your mind, which then transmits via electrical impulses motion to your fingers which then type it out automatically on the keyboard.
You stand for nothing except cynicism.

Well that's a damnside closer to the truth than what Zevie and his mate wipey have been hitting me with....

well done trotty....and you are a person suspended in time during the russian revolution?

 

[Markfs]

I do favour a little mix in an economy, bit of socialism, capitalism and throw in a bit of corruption (the pineapple pizza kind)

View attachment 2039265

Finally, someone has explained my fascination to me...

 

[IlovethePies]

I do favour a little mix in an economy, bit of socialism, capitalism and throw in a bit of corruption (the pineapple pizza kind)

View attachment 2039265

What do you understand by socialism?

 

[Markfs]

That's rubbish

I visited 2 of Pol Pot's gaols

Concrete brutalism, poor food choices, no smiling

Reminds me of every other socialist nation I have been to

you should try israel Walter. I've been told that everything is subsidised.....

 

[JB1975]

Genuinely, what type of deeper understanding have you attempted to engage me in?

The only type of questions I get asked on this forum are attempted gotcha's or attempts to invalidate my reasoning.

As I said above, I think that our exchanges have degenerated, that point scoring now plays too big a part.

But much of my discussion was interested in the reasoning you speak of, the foundation of it, and how these do or don't respond to unfolding events.

I've taken you at your word that you care about Palestinian lives, so my curiosity has been drawn to what I see as a 'disconnect' between this and your ability to accept the mass destruction of those lives.

I'm also interested in the question of who decides what is or isn't antisemitic. On the one hand I do indeed have a concern about attempts to stifle discussion and dissent, which are things I see playing out in different contexts around the world. On the other, I'm not really comfortable in letting my own understanding of antisemitism be the only guide in how I respond.

I can see how you would perceive elements of the discussion as 'gotcha' attempts. I get it. But I'm not here to corner anyone. My efforts have been to work through paradox or contradiction, and to further my own thinking on how people might reconcile things which can't be reconciled.

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I take a portion of the blame for the emergence of narkiness. The tendency to be offensive exists in me and sometimes I'm pretty good at it.

 

[jathanas]

....

Concrete brutalism, poor food choices, no smiling

....

Darling Harbour (& Docklands) just came to mind.

ok...you clearly inhabit a region of the net that I have never been to, and clearly don't intend to

Lighten up, I'm just messing with you.

 

[Markfs]

As I said above, I think that our exchanges have degenerated, that point scoring now plays too big a part.

But much of my discussion was interested in the reasoning you speak of, the foundation of it, and how these do or don't respond to unfolding events.

I've taken you at your word that you care about Palestinian lives, so my curiosity has been drawn to what I see as a 'disconnect' between this and your ability to accept the mass destruction of those lives.

I'm also interested in the question of who decides what is or isn't antisemitic. On the one hand I do indeed have a concern about attempts to stifle discussion and dissent, which are things I see playing out in different contexts around the world. On the other, I'm not really comfortable in letting my own understanding of antisemitism be the only guide in how I respond.

I can see how you would perceive elements of the discussion as 'gotcha' attempts. I get it. But I'm not here to corner anyone. My efforts have been to work through paradox or contradiction, and to further my own thinking on how people might reconcile things which can't be reconciled.

-------------------------------------------

I take a portion of the blame for the emergence of narkiness. The tendency to be offensive exists in me and sometimes I'm pretty good at it.

be careful about agreeing to a ceasefire just because he says that you're special....especially if you own your own home

 

[leon123]

What do you understand by socialism?

I wont get into that debate, as it sounds too serious for me.... but, I do like the relative efficiencies of capitalism (yes, yes, Im well aware of market imperfections etc).

Sometimes when im in a drunken/drugged haze I do dream of the concept where our consumer preferences change from 'consuming' bigger and 'better' things to where we want to consume/purchase/allocate resources to things like conservation. environment, social equity etc.

But, sadly, the vast majority, today, yesterday and tomorrow will always want a bigger and brighter item

 

[IlovethePies]

My efforts have been to work through paradox or contradiction, and to further my own thinking on how people might reconcile things which can't be reconciled.

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I take a portion of the blame for the emergence of narkiness. The tendency to be offensive exists in me and sometimes I'm pretty good at it.

Agree with the second point.
First point: you will never be able to work through paradox and contradiction while ignorant of materialist dialectics.
Your offensiveness flows from this ignorance.

 

[IlovethePies]

Lighten up, I'm just messing with you.

Oh, you mean "I was just joking" ?