All things Politics

[sr36]

Modern day Holocaust deniers.

You missed the memo.

It's anti-Semitic to compare the Israeli government's dehumanizing rhetoric and propaganda to that of Nazi Germany.

Colonial propaganda towards "natives" is much more apt a comparison anyway. And much more where the Israeli Govt are at.

So try not to compare what Israel is doing to the Holocaust.

 

[JB1975]

You missed the memo.

It's anti-Semitic to compare the Israeli government's dehumanizing rhetoric and propaganda to that of Nazi Germany.

Colonial propaganda towards "natives" is much more apt a comparison anyway. And much more where the Israeli Govt are at.

So try not to compare what Israel is doing to the Holocaust.

To slink so low as to dredge up Holocaust deniers is quite incredible to me.

The millions of Jews who were shot and gassed are increasingly used as a form of currency, to try and buy the legitimacy of Israel's crimes.

It's as debased as Holocaust denial.

 

[sr36]

To slink so low as to dredge up Holocaust deniers is quite incredible to me.

The millions of Jews who were shot and gassed are increasingly used as a form of currency, to try and buy the legitimacy of Israel's crimes.

It's as debased as Holocaust denial.

To assert that comparisons with the holocaust are anti-semetic and then to make a comparison to holocaust denial - a comparison which ultimately is a comparison with the holocasut and thus which does compare the indescriminant killing of 800 civilians with the very descriminant attempt to wipe out an entire cultural group by killing of 6 million. mammamia. Next level.

 

[Markfs]

I must admit that I have to defend Zevie on the comparisons with jewish holocaust experiences in WW2. While i dont believe anyone has mass slaughtered a group as the Nazis did to the jews in ovens and mass graves, the jewish experiences in the various ghettos are worth a reflection.

The Germans segregated jews from the general population and were often fenced in. Often they were controlled by jewish councils, who provided policing arrangements under fear of death by the Germans. These ghettos were small and people were packed in and living conditions were intolerable. Jews often smuggled food and weapons into the ghettos. Often there were uprisings similar to the famous one in Warsaw. The uprisings were unlikely to succeed but many jews ignored that.

"The Jews knew that uprisings would not stop the Germans and that only a handful of fighters would succeed in escaping to join the partisans. Still, some Jews made the decision to resist."

Jewish Uprisings in Ghettos and Camps, 1941–1944

Under the most adverse conditions, Jewish prisoners initiated resistance and uprisings in some of the ghettos and camps, including Bialystok, Warsaw, Treblinka, and Sobibor.

encyclopedia.ushmm.org

Even reflection on the jewish slogan "never again" is worthwhile. As Wiki states,

"The exact meaning of the phrase is debated, including whether it should be used as a particularistic command to avert a second Holocaust of Jews or whether it is a universalist injunction to prevent all forms of genocide."

Never again - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[ZEV]

To assert that comparisons with the holocaust are anti-semetic and then to make a comparison to holocaust denial - a comparison which ultimately is a comparison with the holocasut and thus which does compare the indescriminant killing of 800 civilians with the very descriminant attempt to wipe out an entire cultural group by killing of 6 million. mammamia. Next level.

The assertion is that comparisons of Israeli policy to that of Nazism is anti-semetic. Not that you care about that or JB1975 who insists that infringes upon political debate in his classroom.

The comparison is that of Markfs, IlovethePies and JB1975 to Holocaust deniers.

Stephen Smith, a Los Angeles-based genocide scholar, says that October 7 denial, like Holocaust denial, is a spectrum of disinformation. “There is flat-out denial, which is hard to justify because Hamas filmed themselves with their bodycams,” he says. “It’s also minimisation and marginalisation of the significance of the event. It is making the public doubt the veracity of what occurred on that day.”

Just about every independent organisation suggests that the Gazan Ministry of Health numbers are legit.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(24)01169-3/fulltext

Your Ministry of Health figures do not differentiate between militants and civilians. A key statistic you are keen to focus on in your posts when it pertains to Israel.

 

[JB1975]

The assertion is that comparisons of Israeli policy to that of Nazism is anti-semetic. Not that you care about that or JB1975 who insists that infringes upon political debate in his classroom.

The comparison is that of Markfs, IlovethePies and JB1975 to Holocaust deniers.

Stephen Smith, a Los Angeles-based genocide scholar, says that October 7 denial, like Holocaust denial, is a spectrum of disinformation. “There is flat-out denial, which is hard to justify because Hamas filmed themselves with their bodycams,” he says. “It’s also minimisation and marginalisation of the significance of the event. It is making the public doubt the veracity of what occurred on that day.”



Your Ministry of Health figures do not differentiate between militants and civilians. A key statistic you are keen to focus on in your posts when it pertains to Israel.

No one in this thread has denied the massacre of October 7. Nor have they 'minimised' or 'marginalised' it.

To say otherwise is the same sort of sensationalist fabrication which the Israeli government has indulged in. Try and avoid it.

To suggest that any comparison between Nazi Germany and Israel is antisemitic is another absurdism. My own view is that the comparison is often used as a provocation, with antisemitic intent, but context should always be accounted for.

 

[Markfs]

Not questioning the credentials of stephen smith. In fact, not even questioning his definitions..... but he started out a methodist and made a whole 30 year career out of the holocaust. He even got to meet tom hanks and speilberg.



and then converted to Judaism last year.....before oct 7th.....

 

[ZEV]

No one in this thread has denied the massacre of October 7. Nor have they 'minimised' or 'marginalised' it.

Multiple posters in this thread have denied that young Israeli children were burned alive. It happened.

To say otherwise is the same sort of sensationalist fabrication which the Israeli government has indulged in. Try and avoid it.

To say otherwise is the same sort of distortion, revisionist and minimisation tactics used by Holocaust deniers. Do what you want.

Ive seen 47 minutes of unreleased horrific footage that the Israeli Government has not released. There is absolutely no requirement to fabricate anything.

To suggest that any comparison between Nazi Germany and Israel is antisemitic is another absurdism. My own view is that the comparison is often used as a provocation, with antisemitic intent, but context should always be accounted for.

Apply that logic to any other minority group in the world and see how far that gets you.

The truth is that anti-semitism is the widely socially acceptable form of bigotry and discrimination in today's society. Many posters in this thread are revelling in it. Others are fuelling it.

 

[sr36]

The assertion is that comparisons of Israeli policy to that of Nazism is anti-semetic. Not that you care about that or JB1975 who insists that infringes upon political debate in his classroom.

I understand the assertion, but if you look at justifications for the assertion, rather than just viewing it as a maxim, it's pretty clear that Israelis evoking the holocaust or Nazism would also meet most of the justifications and fall under the banner of anti-Semetic. If you don't want others to make comparisons to Nazis - don't make them - particularly when they are as absurd as comparing denying the holocaust with disbelieving rhetoric that doesn't appear to stack up with evidence.

Stephen Smith, a Los Angeles-based genocide scholar, says that October 7 denial, like Holocaust denial, is a spectrum of disinformation. “There is flat-out denial, which is hard to justify because Hamas filmed themselves with their bodycams,” he says. “It’s also minimisation and marginalisation of the significance of the event. It is making the public doubt the veracity of what occurred on that day.”

I assume he'd also consider dehumanizing rhetoric to consist on a spectrum and I'd assume he'd believe it was a central component and precursor of genocide.

Your Ministry of Health figures do not differentiate between militants and civilians. A key statistic you are keen to focus on in your posts when it pertains to Israel.

Yes I should have stuck to the topic: dead babies. The rhetoric, including Netinhayu's congress speech and the dubious picture you posted is a portrayal of "human animal" baby torturers and killers. Yet 1 baby was killed - is there anything credible saying how? 1 in 1200 killed were babies - I bet Palestinian parents would much prefer that ratio to the one they've lived under for the last 10 months - even if you take out the bombing and snipers, the policy of restricting food is going to fall heaviest on babies and infants. Israel sure as hell shouldn't be trying to portray the other side as baby killers.

 

[WalterBlaknWhte]

And Zev...drop the prof bulls***.

No JB

You could have been a cult leader or an investment banker

But you decided the children are our future

Respect the academy please

 

[Markfs]

Ive seen 47 minutes of unreleased horrific footage that the Israeli Government has not released. There is absolutely no requirement to fabricate anything.

Sparked my curiosity.

Reference to the 47minute film "Bearing Witness"...

Bearing Witness (2023 film) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Bearing Witness to the October 7th Massacre[2] (also unofficially called סרט הזוועות, lit. 'the atrocity film' or 'the film of horrors' in Hebrew) is a compilation by the IDF Spokesperson's Unit of raw footage from the 2023 Hamas attack on Israel. The film includes footage captured from body cameras worn by Hamas militants on 7 October, and contains scenes of extreme violence recorded during and after the incursion.[3]

Israeli officials have held screenings of the film for national and international journalists, foreign diplomats, and Hollywood executives to garner support[4][5] and to deflect criticism of Israel's actions in Gaza.[6][7] The film has generated controversy, with some criticizing plans to publicly release the footage over concerns it would be psychologically harmful.[7]

warning : entering hasbara zone....

 

[ZEV]

Hey Zev. I've never heard the stories about the ten toddlers who were beheaded.

The war upon children being waged by Israel, by bombs, starvation and sniper fire, is quite enough for me.

Did you see the reports of US doctors talking about sniper wounds (plural) in young children in Gaza? As well as the children having their bodies ripped apart by bombs filled with metal fragments?

I suppose that these things are more humane because the victims are at a bit of a distance.

This genocide thing gets quite ugly, doesn't it?

It was from your source. I'd hate to see what your X feed looks like or the effect it may have on you.

I saw the report of the Pro Palestinian, Canadian based, Pakistani born US doctor in Gaza who reported that nurses told her that children had been targeted by the IDF.

I have read the reports of high calibre rounds hitting children. Hamas uses high calibre rounds much more frequently than IDF operators.

That's what a bomb does. That's not exclusive to the IDF as much as you would like it to be.

Stopping radicalized terrorists trying to wipe you off the planet based on your religion is ugly. Tell me about your personal experiences.

 

[JB1975]

It was from your source. I'd hate to see what your X feed looks like or the effect it may have on you.

I saw the report of the Pro Palestinian, Canadian based, Pakistani born US doctor in Gaza who reported that nurses told her that children had been targeted by the IDF.

I have read the reports of high calibre rounds hitting children. Hamas uses high calibre rounds much more frequently than IDF operators.

That's what a bomb does. That's not exclusive to the IDF as much as you would like it to be.

Stopping radicalized terrorists trying to wipe you off the planet based on your religion is ugly. Tell me about your personal experiences.

Give it a rest.

Israel are illegal occupiers and colonial rulers over the lives of Palestinians. That's why they f***ing hate you, not because you're Jewish.

Palestinians didn't get a say in the religion or ethnicity of the people who stole their land.

Doesn't it make it hard to assume the moral high ground when you steal the land and butcher their children?

So you say you read the reports of a pro-Palestinian, Pakistani-born, Canadian-based US doctor...

Q.1. Why the descriptors? You read his report and the only thing you comment on are his origins and apparent sympathies. Is any of it really significant?

Q.2. You do realise that many and varied reports of the targeting of children have come from many and varied sources? Not just those from a Muslim background...in case you think that that's significant.

Hamas do this, Hamas do that... Mate, Hamas doesn't have the firepower and breadth of support to carry out a genocidal campaign. Israel does, and Israel is.

 

[sr36]

Stopping radicalized terrorists trying to wipe you off the planet based on your religion is ugly. Tell me about your personal experiences.

You're not on the only side of the conflict that feels that way. But apparently others are monsters when they brush off atrocity with Machiavellian shit along the lines of the ends justify the means.

 

[leon123]

Stopping radicalized terrorists trying to wipe you off the planet based on your religion is ugly.

Who is wiping off who again?, based on religion

"OCHA reported that Israel killed 370 Palestinians in the West Bank between October 7, 2023 and January 29, 2024, including 94 children.[197] 97% of these were killed by Israeli security forces and the remainder by Israeli settlers."

 

[ZEV]

Q.1. Why the descriptors? You read his report and the only thing you comment on are his origins and apparent sympathies. Is any of it really significant?

It was a her.

Dr. Fozia Alvi.

Clarity. She has been labelled Pakistani, Canadian and American by various media sources.

Why did you assume the Dr. was male?

EDIT: wow I even said “her” in the post. I genuinely hope you rage posting and it’s not true feelings coming out.

 

[ZEV]

And Zev...drop the prof bulls***.

I was being respectful of your experience and position and intellectual standing.

Not like your twitter source who feeds out stuff like this; what’s wrong with this pic JB1975 ?

 

[JB1975]

Multiple posters in this thread have denied that young Israeli children were burned alive. It happened.

The report that Hamas burned a baby in an oven is a lie.

My understanding is that two babies died on Oct 7. One was killed in the context of a gun battle and the other died after a failed emergency caesarian.

The '40 beheaded babies' and the roasting of babies are lies.

o say otherwise is the same sort of distortion, revisionist and minimisation tactics used by Holocaust deniers. Do what you want.

Ive seen 47 minutes of unreleased horrific footage that the Israeli Government has not released. There is absolutely no requirement to fabricate anything.

You seem to have a problem with people who don't like the sensationalisation of tragedy.

There were a large number of lies spoken and passed on after Oct 7. To liken an effort to call these lies to account with Holocaust denial is perverse and offensive.

You say that there's no need to fabricate anything, which begs the question: Why have there been so many lies?

The answer to this is my concern: DEHUMANISATION. Dehumanise the Palestinians.

The stories perpetuated by the New York Times and others about the systematic rape of women on Oct 7 were also shown to be wrong.

Apply that logic to any other minority group in the world and see how far that gets you.

The truth is that anti-semitism is the widely socially acceptable form of bigotry and discrimination in today's society. Many posters in this thread are revelling in it. Others are fuelling it.

No, antisemitism is not socially acceptable, and you're making some sort of a joke to say so.

Antisemitism has been weaponised by Israel. It is used is to delegitimise criticism and the judgments of international justice.

The use of antisemitism as a political taint is pathetic.

 

[JB1975]

It was a her.

Dr. Fozia Alvi.

Clarity. She has been labelled Pakistani, Canadian and American by various media sources.

Why did you assume the Dr. was male?

EDIT: wow I even said “her” in the post. I genuinely hope you rage posting and it’s not true feelings coming out.

Is this your effort to crawl to some moral high ground? That I mistook the doctor you were referring to for another (male) doctor who was/is a US surgeon?

Wow indeed.

 

[JB1975]

I was being respectful of your experience and position and intellectual standing.

And yet you think I'm stupid enough to accept this horseshit.

Thanks for the respect, but no thanks.

 

[JB1975]

It does trouble me that we have to keep dealing with the propaganda of '40 beheaded babies' when Israel has been ripping the body parts from thousands of Palestinian children for 9 months.

Need to keep reminding myself that it's all about Hamas and hostages...

 

[JB1975]

Who is wiping off who again?, based on religion

"OCHA reported that Israel killed 370 Palestinians in the West Bank between October 7, 2023 and January 29, 2024, including 94 children.[197] 97% of these were killed by Israeli security forces and the remainder by Israeli settlers."

The escalation of things in the West Bank has been taken care of, Leon.

Australia has sanctioned a couple of individuals for it.

 

[leon123]

The escalation of things in the West Bank has been taken care of, Leon.

Australia has sanctioned a couple of individuals for it.

Mmmmmmmmmmm.

Just waiting for zav marketing spin to blame the terrorist children

 

[Markfs]

The sanction should be to keep any illegal settler out of australia forever....

 

[sr36]

Who is wiping off who again?, based on religion

"OCHA reported that Israel killed 370 Palestinians in the West Bank between October 7, 2023 and January 29, 2024, including 94 children.[197] 97% of these were killed by Israeli security forces and the remainder by Israeli settlers."

So 2.5% of people killed by the human animal baby killers on Oct 7 were children. Yet 25% of those killed in a non war zone by the most moral most strictly targeted security force in the world were children ...