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Markfs said:
well the israelis are the most moral army in the world....read the torah (i.e the old testament), you'll get the idea of morality. I dont see him as a psychopath, just representative...
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Bezalel Smotrich is an example of what would happen if you were to be elected into office.

You mirror and complement each other perfectly.

Everyone hates you both as well.
 
ZEV said:
Bezalel Smotrich is an example of what would happen if you were to be elected into office.

You mirror and complement each other perfectly.

Everyone hates you both as well.
Click to expand...

well you're assisting smotrich with the starvation of 2 million....and evidently everybody loves you
 
Markfs said:
well doctor, you can make your diagnosis but how do you define people who vote for psychopaths?
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It's a different political system. It's not preferential. You get seats in the Knesset for 3.25% of primary vote
His party got 10% of primary votes in 2022. One Nation peaked at 27% for us. A poll late last year had his party dropping down below the 3.25% cut off.

We'd have some complete looney parties holding seats in Australia if it was the same political system. And it would always be a coalition, sometimes with the looney parties holding the balance of power.

They need to change their political system. It sounds great in theory as it gives representation to minority voices, but in reality it gives too much power to loonies.
 
sr36 said:
It's a different political system. It's not preferential. You get seats in the Knesset for 3.25% of primary vote
His party got 10% of primary votes in 2022. One Nation peaked at 27% for us. A poll late last year had his party dropping down below the 3.25% cut off.

We'd have some complete looney parties holding seats in Australia if it was the same political system. And it would always be a coalition, sometimes with the looney parties holding the balance of power.

They need to change their political system. It sounds great in theory as it gives representation to minority voices, but in reality it gives too much power to loonies.
Click to expand...

I look at the israeli newspaper polls and many of the strategies are popular - starvation, bombing etc. Whatever "balanced" strategy from the last century is now down to a minority reading haaretz. In fact, you'd probably find more of those folk in the US. The trend is EAST towards the right....towards samaria and judea and the promised land!!
 
sr36 said:
It's a different political system. It's not preferential. You get seats in the Knesset for 3.25% of primary vote
His party got 10% of primary votes in 2022. One Nation peaked at 27% for us. A poll late last year had his party dropping down below the 3.25% cut off.

We'd have some complete looney parties holding seats in Australia if it was the same political system. And it would always be a coalition, sometimes with the looney parties holding the balance of power.

They need to change their political system. It sounds great in theory as it gives representation to minority voices, but in reality it gives too much power to loonies.
Click to expand...
It is not likely that the political system will be changed any time soon. Without a popular revolt from below, the Netahanyu fascist government will consolidate its power through dictatorial measures:

www.wsws.org

Netanyahu’s far-right government pursues its dictatorial agenda to consolidate its Greater Israel policy

The government has introduced a raft of new anti-democratic laws, increasing surveillance over the Palestinians and of Israeli citizens and restricting freedom of speech.
www.wsws.org
 
Markfs said:
I look at the israeli newspaper polls and many of the strategies are popular - starvation, bombing etc. Whatever "balanced" strategy from the last century is now down to a minority reading haaretz. In fact, you'd probably find more of those folk in the US. The trend is EAST towards the right....towards samaria and judea and the promised land!!
Click to expand...
One cannot truly gauge popular opinion in Israel because:
a) opposition to the extreme right wing agenda of colonising the West Bank and ethnically cleansing Gaza is met by brutal police repression on the streets, as well as the trheat of being charged as a "Hamas supporter", as well as losing one's livelihood

b) Itamar Ben-Gvir , National security minister has sought to mobilise vigilante gangs to hound the Palestinians and drive them out of their homes and off of their land in the West Bank and East Jerusalem. He has distributed about 30,000 automatic rifles to anyone classified as members of “community security guards,” not just in border towns and villages but cities throughout the country, and approved applications to thousands of people with no authority or training. It is now a common sight to see people in city centres walking around with a weapon slung over their shoulder. Ben-Gvir has sought to relax the regulations on opening fire.

Yes, so roaming bands of fascists and racists armed with guns are roaming Israeli cities. Sound familiar? If you said Trump's vision for America, or if you said Hitler's Brown shirts, you wouldn't be off the mark.


c) the media is muzzled and censored. The Israeli population is denied the truth about what the IDF is perpetrating in Gaza.
The claim that Israel is a "democracy"" is a complete lie.
Palestinian Israelis meet with constant repression and discrimination.

Israel’s treatment of the Palestinians inside the Sde Teiman detention centre in the Negev desert and other Israeli prisons bears comparison with the notorious US naval base in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba and Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq.

A shocking CNN report last May revealed that Gazans imprisoned there—held without charge or legal representation on “national security grounds”—are blindfolded, forced into stress positions, beaten, insulted, and prevented from speaking for extended periods. Prisoners have had to have their limbs amputated due to their injuries.
 
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IlovethePies said:
It is not likely that the political system will be changed any time soon. Without a popular revolt from below, the Netahanyu fascist government will consolidate its power through dictatorial measures:

www.wsws.org

Netanyahu’s far-right government pursues its dictatorial agenda to consolidate its Greater Israel policy

The government has introduced a raft of new anti-democratic laws, increasing surveillance over the Palestinians and of Israeli citizens and restricting freedom of speech.
www.wsws.org
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I'm certainly not suggesting it will change.

I'm just pointing out that Smotrich is only representative of a small minority, rather than the whole of Judaism like Mark is portraying.
 
IlovethePies said:
One cannot truly gauge popular opinion in Israel because:
a) opposition to the extreme right wing agenda of colonising the West Bank and ethnically cleansing Gaza is met by brutal police repression on the streets, as well as the trheat of being charged as a "Hamas supporter", as well as losing one's livelihood
b) the media is muzzled and censored. The Israeli population is denied the truth about what the IDF is perpetrating in Gaza.
The claim that Israel is a "democracy"" is a complete lie.
Palestinian Israelis meet with constant repression and discrimination.

Israel’s treatment of the Palestinians inside the Sde Teiman detention centre in the Negev desert and other Israeli prisons bears comparison with the notorious US naval base in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba and Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq.

A shocking CNN report last May revealed that Gazans imprisoned there—held without charge or legal representation on “national security grounds”—are blindfolded, forced into stress positions, beaten, insulted, and prevented from speaking for extended periods. Prisoners have had to have their limbs amputated due to their injuries.
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more than one way to tell your neighbour to move out....

hebron is designated by the UN as being palestinian....orit strook is the minister for settlements...

 
yeh yeh....73% back IDF or says it hasnt gone far enough.....push the line that it's just one or two directing traffic....the plebs in the west will believe anything...

www.pewresearch.org

Israeli Views of the Israel-Hamas War

Israelis are divided over the military response in Gaza, with Arabs much more likely than Jews to say it’s gone too far. Arabs’ and Jews’ views of many aspects of the war differ.
www.pewresearch.org www.pewresearch.org
 
"Only far-right ministers like Bezalel Smotrich and Itamar Ben Gvir have come out in support of Israel permanently controlling the Gaza Strip and reestablishing settlements there, but the Pew survey indicates support for their stance may be more widespread among Israeli Jews than originally thought."

yeh yeh but just push the line that israelis ignore the so-called right ...the gentiles will lap it up..

 
Markfs said:
yeh yeh....73% back IDF or says it hasnt gone far enough.....push the line that it's just one or two directing traffic....the plebs in the west will believe anything...

www.pewresearch.org

Israeli Views of the Israel-Hamas War

Israelis are divided over the military response in Gaza, with Arabs much more likely than Jews to say it’s gone too far. Arabs’ and Jews’ views of many aspects of the war differ.
www.pewresearch.org www.pewresearch.org
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And over 70% of Russians support the war in the Ukraine, they must read the Torah too. Same with the 70% of Palestinians who supported Oct 7 - big Torah readers. Or perhaps a combination of domestic propaganda and war brings out massive tribalism in all groups.
 
sr36 said:
And over 70% of Russians support the war in the Ukraine, they must read the Torah too. Same with the 70% of Palestinians who supported Oct 7 - big Torah readers. Or perhaps a combination of domestic propaganda and war brings out massive tribalism in all groups.
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so we're ditching the theory that only a small minority is doing it?
 
In 1914, Russia entered WW1. The Russian population was massively energised by the prospect of a patriotic war defending mother Russia against the German hordes. They joined the army enthusiastically.
War, as Sr suggests, creates in the first instance a massive nationalist response.

3 years later, after the devastation of 3 years of war, creating famine, mass death, economic disaster, the Russian population agreed with the Bolsheviks that war was not in their interests and overthrew the Tsarist regime.

When the Provisional Government of Kerensky (established in the wake of the Tsar's downfall) demanded that the war be continued, the Russian population overthrew the Provisional government as well under the leadership of Lenin's party.

Yet 3 years earlier, it looked to the casual observer that the Russian population agreed with full scale war.

Israel atm is whipped up in a frenzy of war. The population is pulverised by Zionist propaganda, and access to independent sources is extremely limited/censored.

Al Jazeera in Israel was banned not long ago because Al Jazeera was showing too much of the truth of what the IDF was perpetrating in Gaza.

Not only was Al Jazeera banned, but its journalists in Gaza were also gunned down by the IDF, along with many other journalists. Israel's war in Gaza is, along with every other outrage, is a war on journalism.

The IDF has singled out journalists in gaza as one of their priority targets.

Atm, Israel is not a democracy. It is a hysteria driven nation engulfed in a war frenzy.

There are fascists roaming the streets, armed with guns, seeking out Israeli Palestinians to terrorise.

There are fascists in government who refer to nearby populations as "sub humans".

Israelis who make public statements opposing the genocide are smashed with dictatorial "ant-terrorist" laws, resulting potentially in prison, and also with the loss of their livelihood.

How can any "Pew survey" under these conditions possibly claim to reflect a true picture of what the Israeli population is thinking?
 
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