Alright go berzerk ... What are the negatives in this ???

[H2F]

Because I see none other than logistical, yet the concept seems to be laughed at ...

The team that wins the wooden spoon relegated into their states league ...

These are the positives...

1) Gives a huge amount more credibility to the state leagues (VFL, SANFL, WAFL etc) ...

2) Totally fixes tanking ... Teams will be so afraid of the wooden spoon it will almost be more passionate than the finals ...

3) Demands that clubs play to win only ...

4) Puts more emphasise on the reserves competition in that an AFL team from the year before will be in there ...

5) Sides like Richmond would not be this pathetic because there is nothing like relegation as a motivator ...

Before you demolish this ... Tell me why clubs who are useless for such long periods deserve the right be by default in the AFL ??? Surely a dominant state team deserves a crack over a wooden spoon joke ?

Yeah it's harsh but it does fix a few glaring issues in the game ...

 

[Jesse Custer]

That is a great idea Hodgey, but alas it won't happen.
Its an idea to fix tanking, get rid of underperforming sides but who do we bring up. The only problem is, is that there is not enough quality to come up and compete in the AFL. Port Melbourne for instance would get pumped each week. All the football bodies would have to work together to up the standard of play and training and even that would take years. The soccer leagues in Europe get away with it because they are allowed to buy players during and after the season so the mediocrity of a club is not seen as much. They are a temporary boost to the club if you like, the same system would have to apply here, but that is danger because the eveness of the competition would be at stake again. Its a complex one, not sure if the AFL could make it work.

 

[H2F]

That is a great idea Hodgey, but alas it won't happen.
Its an idea to fix tanking, get rid of underperforming sides but who do we bring up. The only problem is, is that there is not enough quality to come up and compete in the AFL. Port Melbourne for instance would get pumped each week. All the football bodies would have to work together to up the standard of play and training and even that would take years. The soccer leagues in Europe get away with it because they are allowed to buy players during and after the season so the mediocrity of a club is not seen as much. They are a temporary boost to the club if you like, the same system would have to apply here, but that is danger because the eveness of the competition would be at stake again. Its a complex one, not sure if the AFL could make it work.

To be honest mate I see most of the above as positives ... If there was a spot up for grabs in the AFL then the standard of VFL teams would lift enormously IMO ... I also believe it would bring back the dimension we miss that is middle aged footballers who play for pure love ... It would force the AFL to legitimise the second league in all sorts of ways and probably have a big effect on our current drafting system in that the Reserves League might be involved somehow with picks after the clubs draw ...

I cannot believe that a club like Richmond adds anything to themselves or the competition by being so useless for so long ... In Freo's defence they are still new to the competition but whats Richmonds excuse ??? Even when they are down established clubs will rarely win wooden spoons in the modern era ...

 

[Mcchawk]

Because I see none other than logistical, yet the concept seems to be laughed at ...

The team that wins the wooden spoon relegated into their states league ...

These are the positives...

1) Gives a huge amount more credibility to the state leagues (VFL, SANFL, WAFL etc) ...

2) Totally fixes tanking ... Teams will be so afraid of the wooden spoon it will almost be more passionate than the finals ...

3) Demands that clubs play to win only ...

4) Puts more emphasise on the reserves competition in that an AFL team from the year before will be in there ...

5) Sides like Richmond would not be this pathetic because there is nothing like relegation as a motivator ...

Before you demolish this ... Tell me why clubs who are useless for such long periods deserve the right be by default in the AFL ??? Surely a dominant state team deserves a crack over a wooden spoon joke ?

Yeah it's harsh but it does fix a few glaring issues in the game ...

H2F this would work if teams aligned themselves with VFL clubs not AFL clubs like Collingwood and Geepong

 

[Beerfish]

I agree with everything JC said.

There's also no way any of the state league clubs would have the funds to pay for travel and accomodation.. a lot of these clubs have no spare cash at all and I sure as heck can't see the AFL coughing up any cash.

Wouldn't have the supporter base either.

On the upside though (for them) it'd make teams like North and Melbourne feel like powerhouses..

The AFL needs to do something. I think a lottery for picks is the best answer I've heard so far.

 

[Jesse Custer]

To be honest mate I see most of the above as positives ... If there was a spot up for grabs in the AFL then the standard of VFL teams would lift enormously IMO ... I also believe it would bring back the dimension we miss that is middle aged footballers who play for pure love ... It would force the AFL to legitimise the second league in all sorts of ways and probably have a big effect on our current drafting system in that the Reserves League might be involved somehow with picks after the clubs draw ...

I cannot believe that a club like Richmond adds anything to themselves or the competition by being so useless for so long ... In Freo's defence they are still new to the competition but whats Richmonds excuse ??? Even when they are down established clubs will rarely win wooden spoons in the modern era ...

Me too mate, i see positives as well. But with positives there are negatives. I am on the same wavelength with your reasoning about this. Every thing you have mentioned is true and well spoken. In Richmonds defence internal squabling ruined their club for years and poor recruitment obviously. But under this system proposed, it would force them to go down and force them to improve themselves, which could only be a positive for themselves let alone the competition. As mentioned earlier, it would allow players to play for longer, if you dangle the carrot to minor leagues, they will improve to grab it. Good work.

 

[Asgardian]

The idea has merit, but unfortunately is unworkable for one simple reason

The AFL is "owned" (for want of a better term) by the 16 member clubs.

 

[H2F]

Me too mate, i see positives as well. But with positives there are negatives. I am on the same wavelength with your reasoning about this. Every thing you have mentioned is true and well spoken. In Richmonds defence internal squabling ruined their club for years and poor recruitment obviously. But under this system proposed, it would force them to go down and force them to improve themselves, which could only be a positive for themselves let alone the competition. As mentioned earlier, it would allow players to play for longer, if you dangle the carrot to minor leagues, they will improve to grab it. Good work.

Spot on ... Even though Richmond fans would spew it would expediate their issues ... The fabric of the Richmond football club (don't mean to keep picking on them) is so thin they cannot even see what outsiders do ... The fact they are keeping Wallace is something they are bragging about ... To me this is evidence they have no idea and are worse off than before he came ... The Richmond Football Club has to sack Wallace because they must show that they demand integrity ... Forget stats anyone can see Wallet either had no plan and lied to the club or his plan hasn't worked ... The only thing keeping him on is doing is highlighting to everyone the embarrasing core of this club ...

 

[Jesse Custer]

Spot on ... Even though Richmond fans would spew it would expediate their issues ... The fabric of the Richmond football club (don't mean to keep picking on them) is so thin they cannot even see what outsiders do ... The fact they are keeping Wallace is something they are bragging about ... To me this is evidence they have no idea and are worse off than before he came ... The Richmond Football Club has to sack Wallace because they must show that they demand integrity ... Forget stats anyone can see Wallet either had no plan and lied to the club or his plan hasn't worked ... The only thing keeping him on is doing is highlighting to everyone the embarrasing core of this club ...

I agree with everything you say, been telling my Richmond mates for a while now. They agree too. If they want to move forward they must sack Wallace.

 

[Frankston Rover]

I reckon you have 2 divisions, with 8 teams each and a season covering 16 rounds plus finals.

The bottom team of Div 1 gets relegated to Div 2 and the 'winner' of Div 2 gets promoted to Div 1.

This would solve to imbalance of the draw, as all teams in each division would play each other twice and it would create two competitive leagues.

This would also eliminate teams from tanking as a team like West Coast for example, would be bottom of Div 1 this season and the best possible pick they could recieve is pick 9. Teams in Div 2 are already rebuilding, on the way up or are just crap, so you can't play finals one year in Div 1 and then get pick 3 a season later.

The only downside would be the loss of 'Blockbuster Games' like ANZAC day because, at this stage Collingwood would be Div 1 and Essendon would be Div 2. BUT, this would allow the AFL to schedule two teams on this day, say Geelong V Collingwood, which would still draw 80,000+.

Just my 2c.

 

[Jesse Custer]

Goodwork FR, the only downside is the limited blockbusters on some occasions,
and we all know its about money these days.

 

[Frankston Rover]

Plenty of room for SOO then.

Also, with 2 more teams joining, the divisions will be 9 each, so it would then be an 18 round season, with two byes for each team.

The blockbuster element would be an issue but with a rolling fixture, like the NRL the AFL could fixture games and create mini blockbusters every week.

Imagine Geelong V Hawthorn, twice in 4 months. Or Essendon V Carlton. It makes for a much more competitive season, as teams play comparable sides each week.

Tonights game, for example, would be a massive game if it meant promotion to Div 1, rather than just the opportunity to slip into 8th spot (lets face it, neither team will win the flag).

 

[Sanecow]

I reckon Hawthorn would struggle if they had Box Hill and Hawthorn both in the AFL.

 

[Mcchawk]

I reckon Hawthorn would struggle if they had Box Hill and Hawthorn both in the AFL.

The same as Sydney would've struggled from day one if in the VFL oh sorry thats right they'd ask for more concessions

 

[thatswhatimtalkinabout]

Sorry Hodgey, can't agree with you on this one.

Apart from the financial inequity and a myriad of other issues (playing list clashes between seniors & reserves, players abandoning relegated clubs etc. etc.) you will end up with 4 to 6 teams who are on a revolving door basis who will be perennially shit at AFL level and as time goes by - dragged down to the level of the lower comp.

Much better to have a lottery for draft positions 14-16, 11-13 & 9-10. Further to that, with memberships currently at a premium, perhaps the AFL could put the onus back on the clubs by only allowing seated memberships to be sold between July 1 - February 28.

Sure the majority of members will sign anyway, but with clubs having had to become businesses and having an eye on the financial bottom line - tanking for better draft position weighs up pretty poorly compared to 5 - 10000 members who might sign up on the promise shown at the end of the season.

 

[Urkel]

Maybe if they had a play-off match, but I don't think it's workable.
You're punishing teams for being good, and then experiencing the slide.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

Plenty of room for SOO then.

Also, with 2 more teams joining, the divisions will be 9 each, so it would then be an 18 round season, with two byes for each team.

The blockbuster element would be an issue but with a rolling fixture, like the NRL the AFL could fixture games and create mini blockbusters every week.

Imagine Geelong V Hawthorn, twice in 4 months. Or Essendon V Carlton. It makes for a much more competitive season, as teams play comparable sides each week.

Tonights game, for example, would be a massive game if it meant promotion to Div 1, rather than just the opportunity to slip into 8th spot (lets face it, neither team will win the flag).

It'd still only be a 16-round season, each team plays the other 8 teams in its division twice. Why not have each team play the teams in the other division once, and make it a 25-round season. Then you can still have the blockbusters, maybe not as many (if the Perth teams or the Adelaide teams are in different divisions you'd have one less showdown/derby, for example). Get rid of the Wizard Cup if the season's too long.

 

[Walesy]

What would happen in the following senario.

Melbourne -> Relegated.
Box Hill -> Upgraded.

Wouold the Hawks need to affiliate with a new VFL team? Or would they no longer run their youth in the magoos?

Or if something more bizare happened.

Hawthorn -> Relegated.
Box hill -> Upgraded.
?

 

[Freddy Bassett]

Goodwork FR, the only downside is the limited blockbusters on some occasions,
and we all know its about money these days.

So true. But relegation games would be as big as finals if not bigger. Could you imagine the interest when a Collingwood or Carlton are in a dogfight to avoid relegation compared to the way it is now... Would be huge

 

[D_One]

That’s a brilliant idea. Get rid of the club that finishes 16th. What we could do then is split clubs with large supporter bases in two to maintain a 16 team comp. For example last year we could put Richmond in the dustpan of history and then split Adelaide in two. We could base one club in Norwood (i.e. the Adelaide Redlegs) and the other in Glenelg (ie the Glenelg Crows).

This year if Melbourne comes last we could 86 them, and split the Swans in two, the Western Sydney Swans and the Sydney City Convicts. If West Coast come bottom we could sent them to purgatory and split Freo in two, the South Fremantle Dockers and the East Fremantle Eagles.

But best of all is when Carlton finishes bottom we could send them to the same place that John Elliot and Dick Pratt are and then split Collingwood in two, the North Collingwood Willy Wagtails and the South Collingwood Pigeons.

It would stop tanking and even the competition out at the same time.

 

[Sanecow]

The same as Sydney would've struggled from day one if in the VFL oh sorry thats right they'd ask for more concessions

It wasn't a dig at Hawthorn, numbnuts. Injunction == Concessions.

 

[smoothop01]

Because I see none other than logistical, yet the concept seems to be laughed at ...

The team that wins the wooden spoon relegated into their states league ...

These are the positives...

1) Gives a huge amount more credibility to the state leagues (VFL, SANFL, WAFL etc) ...

2) Totally fixes tanking ... Teams will be so afraid of the wooden spoon it will almost be more passionate than the finals ...

3) Demands that clubs play to win only ...

4) Puts more emphasise on the reserves competition in that an AFL team from the year before will be in there ...

5) Sides like Richmond would not be this pathetic because there is nothing like relegation as a motivator ...

Before you demolish this ... Tell me why clubs who are useless for such long periods deserve the right be by default in the AFL ??? Surely a dominant state team deserves a crack over a wooden spoon joke ?

Yeah it's harsh but it does fix a few glaring issues in the game ...

So which state Premier would come into the AFL ?

Would the winner of the VFL, SANFL & WAFL have some kind of playoff tournament ? Would be great to see but will never happen.........

 

[Sanecow]

Most unworkable idea ever in the history of mankind.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

The solution to tanking is this:

The teams that finish 9-16 all go into a raffle for the first 8 draft picks.

The teams that finish 1-8 go into a raffle for picks 9-16.

All teams then play out the season knowing that finishing 9th is as good as finishing 16th. And the side that finishes 9th won't be tanking at any stage because they will be in the mix for a finals spot.

It really is so very simple.

 

[Walesy]

The solution to tanking is this:

The teams that finish 9-16 all go into a raffle for the first 8 draft picks.

The teams that finish 1-8 go into a raffle for picks 9-16.

All teams then play out the season knowing that finishing 9th is as good as finishing 16th. And the side that finishes 9th won't be tanking at any stage because they will be in the mix for a finals spot.

It really is so very simple.

Meh, no-one wants Richmond to keep getting #1 picks!.

Simple is never the solution. What we need is convolution! (and not in a mathmatical sense.)

Determine draft order based on years out of the 8 (/year's in the 8).

So if you're a Port Adelaide. It doesn't help to tank. You're in the same boat as all other "1 year out of the 8" guys.

This way, the draft system will "reward" long-term failure. instead of the BS short-term failure that the system currently rewards. Tanking is short-term-failure. That shouldn't be rewarded. But the long-term-failure, that's where we need to be throwing the bones...