What!, she never served me any brekky in bed, it was out the door before you got home.
Breakfast must be a performance based thing then Carl
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Amateur Footballer/Records - waste of money??
- Thread starter vafaeye
- Start date
- Tagged users None
Breakfast must be a performance based thing then Carl
Petrov
Debutant
I have been involved with ammo footy for over 20 years (A and B Grade) and never ever paid for a record. I just took 1 or 2 on Thursday night. I don't think I even know anyone who has ever paid for a record. Quite simply they should be provided by the VAFA free, for information and propaganda purposes. The sponsors would surely cover costs, if not M. Sholly and co. need to have a good hard look at their marketing/sponsorship operations and themselves. Clubs might be able to make a small amount of coin by selling them, but really best case scenario $100 to $200 profit tops a week, is basically not worth the hassle. It also pisses off the average footy bloke that comes to watch and has to pay for a record to work out the players names and numbers pull out his wallet for raffle tickets and over priced food as well as volunteer for the interchange bench or timekeeper because no one else is there. Add to that they can't have a beer during the game. Most of my mates (Family men/ Professionals/ Doctors/ Lawyers/ Accountants/ Teachers etc) refused to come to the ammos because of these reasons. That is why the crowds at games are pathetic and embarrassing.
The records would cost next to nothing to pump out as very few contributors get paid and the printing would be practically free. Regardless, if the Ammos feel they can't afford to produce them, just up the affiliation fee (they do that regularly anyway). Most top grade clubs have huge $$$ coming from their cashed up supporters/old boys and sponsors, so they don't really notice the profit or loss from records. If the clubs in lower grades are struggling with the cost and can't sell them, then surely the ammos need to help them out or they risk losing them to suburban comps where more revenue is on offer as cans can be sold during games.
I think it is very wrong that clubs get charged for a box of records regardless of whether they want them or not. It is not big $$$ but it is just a little extra squeeze that the ammos put on their clubs.
The records would cost next to nothing to pump out as very few contributors get paid and the printing would be practically free. Regardless, if the Ammos feel they can't afford to produce them, just up the affiliation fee (they do that regularly anyway). Most top grade clubs have huge $$$ coming from their cashed up supporters/old boys and sponsors, so they don't really notice the profit or loss from records. If the clubs in lower grades are struggling with the cost and can't sell them, then surely the ammos need to help them out or they risk losing them to suburban comps where more revenue is on offer as cans can be sold during games.
I think it is very wrong that clubs get charged for a box of records regardless of whether they want them or not. It is not big $$$ but it is just a little extra squeeze that the ammos put on their clubs.
- Thread starter
- #28
I have been involved with ammo footy for over 20 years (A and B Grade) and never ever paid for a record. I just took 1 or 2 on Thursday night. I don't think I even know anyone who has ever paid for a record. Quite simply they should be provided by the VAFA free, for information and propaganda purposes. The sponsors would surely cover costs, if not M. Sholly and co. need to have a good hard look at their marketing/sponsorship operations and themselves. Clubs might be able to make a small amount of coin by selling them, but really best case scenario $100 to $200 profit tops a week, is basically not worth the hassle. It also pisses off the average footy bloke that comes to watch and has to pay for a record to work out the players names and numbers pull out his wallet for raffle tickets and over priced food as well as volunteer for the interchange bench or timekeeper because no one else is there. Add to that they can't have a beer during the game. Most of my mates (Family men/ Professionals/ Doctors/ Lawyers/ Accountants/ Teachers etc) refused to come to the ammos because of these reasons. That is why the crowds at games are pathetic and embarrassing.
The records would cost next to nothing to pump out as very few contributors get paid and the printing would be practically free. Regardless, if the Ammos feel they can't afford to produce them, just up the affiliation fee (they do that regularly anyway). Most top grade clubs have huge $$$ coming from their cashed up supporters/old boys and sponsors, so they don't really notice the profit or loss from records. If the clubs in lower grades are struggling with the cost and can't sell them, then surely the ammos need to help them out or they risk losing them to suburban comps where more revenue is on offer as cans can be sold during games.
I think it is very wrong that clubs get charged for a box of records regardless of whether they want them or not. It is not big $$$ but it is just a little extra squeeze that the ammos put on their clubs.
I have received Priv Messages & can confirm clubs pay $1.75 per copy whether you want them or not. Interesting [Petrov] that $100 to $200 aweek [as above] doesn't interest your club. The problem is that lower division clubs lose $1500 to $2k a season on records. You make a valid point about the VAFA raising enough sponsorship to break even. Actual spectators at lower division games might number 20 if you are lucky.
The bulk of the messages received are from those claiming to be from lower division clubs - all claiming it is a rort and for the benefit of higher division clubs. Having read all the responses it is clearly not higher grade clubs "fault" as such that they can absorb these $ raisers for the VAFA. Think it is about time some of the lower division clubs tried to get members onto the executive so they have genuine representation.
THE EYE
A LITTLE CONFUSED???
A LITTLE CONFUSED???
Cardio Carl
Cancelled
Breakfast must be a performance based thing then Carl
Like it Smudger, like it.
Not enough humour on these boards, well done champ.
Cardio Carl
Cancelled
I have been involved with ammo footy for over 20 years (A and B Grade) and never ever paid for a record. I just took 1 or 2 on Thursday night. I don't think I even know anyone who has ever paid for a record. Quite simply they should be provided by the VAFA free, for information and propaganda purposes. The sponsors would surely cover costs, if not M. Sholly and co. need to have a good hard look at their marketing/sponsorship operations and themselves. Clubs might be able to make a small amount of coin by selling them, but really best case scenario $100 to $200 profit tops a week, is basically not worth the hassle. It also pisses off the average footy bloke that comes to watch and has to pay for a record to work out the players names and numbers pull out his wallet for raffle tickets and over priced food as well as volunteer for the interchange bench or timekeeper because no one else is there. Add to that they can't have a beer during the game. Most of my mates (Family men/ Professionals/ Doctors/ Lawyers/ Accountants/ Teachers etc) refused to come to the ammos because of these reasons. That is why the crowds at games are pathetic and embarrassing.
The records would cost next to nothing to pump out as very few contributors get paid and the printing would be practically free. Regardless, if the Ammos feel they can't afford to produce them, just up the affiliation fee (they do that regularly anyway). Most top grade clubs have huge $$$ coming from their cashed up supporters/old boys and sponsors, so they don't really notice the profit or loss from records. If the clubs in lower grades are struggling with the cost and can't sell them, then surely the ammos need to help them out or they risk losing them to suburban comps where more revenue is on offer as cans can be sold during games.
I think it is very wrong that clubs get charged for a box of records regardless of whether they want them or not. It is not big $$$ but it is just a little extra squeeze that the ammos put on their clubs.
Gee, how obstrusive of VAFA clubs trying to make a dollar on raffle tickets and the canteen and then not have PAID staff manage everything for the VIP Professionals who grace us with their presence to see our great game.
Oh!, thats right, but they will get in for free and will not have drunken MRN's hanging off them all day as well.
Pathetic! they would be better off going out with the girls and having a nice Decaf Skinny latte along Imatosser Street.
I have been involved with ammo footy for over 20 years (A and B Grade) and never ever paid for a record. I just took 1 or 2 on Thursday night. I don't think I even know anyone who has ever paid for a record. Quite simply they should be provided by the VAFA free, for information and propaganda purposes. The sponsors would surely cover costs, if not M. Sholly and co. need to have a good hard look at their marketing/sponsorship operations and themselves. Clubs might be able to make a small amount of coin by selling them, but really best case scenario $100 to $200 profit tops a week, is basically not worth the hassle. It also pisses off the average footy bloke that comes to watch and has to pay for a record to work out the players names and numbers pull out his wallet for raffle tickets and over priced food as well as volunteer for the interchange bench or timekeeper because no one else is there. Add to that they can't have a beer during the game. Most of my mates (Family men/ Professionals/ Doctors/ Lawyers/ Accountants/ Teachers etc) refused to come to the ammos because of these reasons. That is why the crowds at games are pathetic and embarrassing.
The records would cost next to nothing to pump out as very few contributors get paid and the printing would be practically free. Regardless, if the Ammos feel they can't afford to produce them, just up the affiliation fee (they do that regularly anyway). Most top grade clubs have huge $$$ coming from their cashed up supporters/old boys and sponsors, so they don't really notice the profit or loss from records. If the clubs in lower grades are struggling with the cost and can't sell them, then surely the ammos need to help them out or they risk losing them to suburban comps where more revenue is on offer as cans can be sold during games.
I think it is very wrong that clubs get charged for a box of records regardless of whether they want them or not. It is not big $$$ but it is just a little extra squeeze that the ammos put on their clubs.
Hmm....so it seems one of the major issues here is a lack of understanding at club level of the circumstances which lead to the records being provided/sold to clubs.
No doubt your club Treasurer would be keenly aware that the club pays for these records each week. Some clubs roll their sleeves up and find ways to absorb or pass on that cost. I daresay this is due to the club executive wishing to either make it a cost neutral or small profit making exercise. Other clubs simply shrug their shoulders about being charged by the VAFA for something which the players/supporters (?) consider useless.
A few of questions for you:
1. Do OH have club luncheons where they can package the AF into the price of a ticket? If not, why don't they? Don't they have luncheons?
2. Do OH ever try to sell the AF at the canteen to supporters on match-day? If not, why not?
3. Have you ever received a free record upon attending any local suburban competition match, or the VFL or the AFL for that matter?
4. Why should the VAFA be more benevolent in providing a 48 page weekly publication than any other football competition in the state?
The issue here goes a little deeper than the VAFA pandering to higher grade clubs. As pointed out, it seems the majority of posters on this thread come from clubs in the Divisions 1-4. Frankly, my current club, Fitzroy has only played in C section/Premier C for 2 and a bit seasons since they left the University. Otherwise, we all admit we have been a lower grade club, albeit one in the mid-sections for the past 6 seasons. They found a means of attracting sufficient support to be able to sell AF's and/or provide them at luncheons so it is not a cost impost to the club.
Here's an idea....why not approach your real estate agent sponsor (Buxton for you guys) and set up one of their magazine easels next to the canteen at the ground where people are invited to make a donation, gold coin or otherwise, to the club for the cost of receiving the AF?
Slot a few of the real estate agent's magazines in the top shelf and a few dozen AF's on the bottom shelf. Many VAFA clubs do have a local real estate agent as part of their sponsorship crew. Fitzroy could use Harrington's, OH/Hampton Rovers/Ormond could use Buxton, St Bernards use Brad Teal, OTs use Jellis Craig, and so on. If your club doesn't then this idea could be thrown up as a means of attracting a new real estate sponsor. The supporters can grab the sponsor's magazine at the same time they chip in what they think is a fair price for grabbing a copy of the AF.
You may only move 20, 30 or 40 of the AFs throughout the day, but at least you'd get some re-imbursement from the supporters, as well as goodwill for sponsor who is seen to be supporting the club and the provision of the AF.
Just an idea, but hopefully an example of how clubs can make things work in their favour.
eddiebetters
Draftee
Given away every home game... waste of money & time for us lower end clubs. its just a massive VAFA GST style taxation to feed the upper echelon of this pyramid league & not put any of it back to helping developing lower grade clubs.
perhaps last years "record" sales was to help feed Brian Waldron and his ass kissers and pay up the financial means of his crap speech at the VAFA launch for 2010. good choice there by VAFA.
and theres barely sh&t all news and innovative info on the VAFA website as in comparison to last year, where at least it was worth reading Horne's weekly review.
perhaps last years "record" sales was to help feed Brian Waldron and his ass kissers and pay up the financial means of his crap speech at the VAFA launch for 2010. good choice there by VAFA.
and theres barely sh&t all news and innovative info on the VAFA website as in comparison to last year, where at least it was worth reading Horne's weekly review.
Half Back Pocket
Premiership Player
MRN's?
This probably stems back to the 80's for the VAFA (remember those old records - printed in blue and black?). They used the recofrds to make money way back then (was probably a decent revenue stream for them then) and it's just flowed on from year to year ever since.
Breakfast must be a performance based thing then Carl
Happy to forward some constructive criticism for you CC
Cardio Carl
Cancelled
Happy to forward some constructive criticism for you CC
no,no,she's ok, its a physical thing apparently.
Privateye
Cancelled
Beautiful weather this weekend.
Great games on.
Hey, each club, please report in, how many Records you sold @ $2.00 and if you were able to turn a profit?
Great games on.
Hey, each club, please report in, how many Records you sold @ $2.00 and if you were able to turn a profit?
Great idea Frase, I'm on the phone to Hocking Stuart Albert Park (The hardest working real estate agents and fantastic sponsors of The Districts) straight away.
We actually work a copy of the AF each week into our top bracket of player memberships although we still chuck heaps out.
stacksonthemill
Debutant
You guys should be thankful.
The WA Ammos don't have a weekly record and their website is connected to the WA Footy Commission so we get no quality information here unless you are well connected at a club (e.g. committeeman).
We'd die for one here.
The WA Ammos don't have a weekly record and their website is connected to the WA Footy Commission so we get no quality information here unless you are well connected at a club (e.g. committeeman).
We'd die for one here.
Enough!!! It's up to club presidents to demand the Ammos account for these imposts on clubs. Gone are the days when a club could put on a keg Sat night and wipe it or another one out on Sunday to raise money.
It is getting hard to raise funds at clubs today and it is surely time to move with the times.
Advertising revenue pays the cost of production. Sponsorship paid by printer goes into consolidated revenue and thus is exclusive of the cost of Amateur Footballer.
In short, clubs are the employers of the administrators of the league and it is beholden on all of us to bring this administration to account. The tail is wagging the dog.
It is getting hard to raise funds at clubs today and it is surely time to move with the times.
Advertising revenue pays the cost of production. Sponsorship paid by printer goes into consolidated revenue and thus is exclusive of the cost of Amateur Footballer.
In short, clubs are the employers of the administrators of the league and it is beholden on all of us to bring this administration to account. The tail is wagging the dog.
Rufus Red
Senior List
I agree! The records are great. They are often a talking point on thursdays and fridays, with our older supporters loving to grab them on saturday. I think there are far more insidious methods of draining money from the clubs, like fines on game day. One of the more astounding is fines because the VAFA umpire does not sign the team sheet. Keep the Record!!!
They could put a competition in it every week, to win $100 or so? They could put a few trivia questions in to read out on a thursday? They Should do a feature on a different club every week.
It could be much more interesting than it is!
It could be much more interesting than it is!
Over The Post
🐍Bless The OOBs🐍
- Nov 17, 2007
- 19,754
- 26,476
- AFL Club
- Richmond
- Other Teams
Ophidian Old Boys
Come on Waz, it doesn't cost much for a box of team crayons to colour in the kids page...
Morrie Turnbuckle
Premium Platinum
- Mar 5, 2009
- 35
- 5
- AFL Club
- Richmond
Seeing as my club only has one team in the VAFA we find it pointless to even sell the records as nobody buys them on a Saturday, so we don't bother to pick up a box and the "money hungry" VAFA still charge us $30+ for a box after we have told them we don't want them cause we just can't sell them.
Having grown up reading the VAFA record most weekends, I believe it to be an indispensable facet of Amateur Football. The overall costs related to the record for clubs are microscopic when compared to the financial dent imprinted by registering players and match fees; and any issues regarding the selling of the record can be solved by creativeness and persistence.
The catch-cries heralding the death of print media are feeble and false. TAF is a material reminder of VAFA occurrences that can be shared, written on and referred to with existential sincerity and certainty; as opposed to a '.pdf' file floating in the ether of cyberspace, ready to be deleted or edited at any moment. It is also a sincere reminder and memento of the time it is published in; a great source for potential researchers and reminiscers alike. If you can sincerely state that you'd rather stand on a grassy knoll reading the weekly reviews and information on the minuscule and greasy screen of an iPhone, rather than the coarse pages of TAF, then good luck to you.
This publication is forged by volunteer effort, with true Amateur ethos, for the love of the game. In some cases, the articles within may smack of naivety or inexperience, but it's sincerity cannot be under-rated. A rarity among football leagues, TAF and its publication process provides valuable experience for aspiring journalists or die-hard VAFA supporters; and is geared towards enticing informed opinions, conversations and discussions in the change-rooms, in the stands and in the social rooms. Accept it for what it is, don't complain about the cost, and if you don't like, don't read it.
The catch-cries heralding the death of print media are feeble and false. TAF is a material reminder of VAFA occurrences that can be shared, written on and referred to with existential sincerity and certainty; as opposed to a '.pdf' file floating in the ether of cyberspace, ready to be deleted or edited at any moment. It is also a sincere reminder and memento of the time it is published in; a great source for potential researchers and reminiscers alike. If you can sincerely state that you'd rather stand on a grassy knoll reading the weekly reviews and information on the minuscule and greasy screen of an iPhone, rather than the coarse pages of TAF, then good luck to you.
This publication is forged by volunteer effort, with true Amateur ethos, for the love of the game. In some cases, the articles within may smack of naivety or inexperience, but it's sincerity cannot be under-rated. A rarity among football leagues, TAF and its publication process provides valuable experience for aspiring journalists or die-hard VAFA supporters; and is geared towards enticing informed opinions, conversations and discussions in the change-rooms, in the stands and in the social rooms. Accept it for what it is, don't complain about the cost, and if you don't like, don't read it.
nikko teen58
All Australian
Well said (written) but clubs should just be able to order what they want like other equipment/materials that they need on a weekly basis. No economic or environmental reason to be throwing out 75% every week.
Majority of posters here say keep it but nominate what is needed. What would you know about finances of clubs? Come down to my club and we'll show you some creativity and persistence with the Rag! The VAFA would be too scared to put it to a vote as usual!
Puff Puff.
Cardio Carl
Cancelled
Ok I'm back on my soap box in regard to the Record knowing that HO looks at BF and they are about to lock down circulation #'s with the printer. Whilst I have presented this to HO a couple of times I just hope they do something now to save waste and costs whilst giving the advertisers value for money.
Cardio Carl's Circulation Campaign
1)collate the total player registrations by club, which will also provide an indicative number of members/club
2) based on required circulation per issue (say 10,000 copies) split the allocations to each club based on their share of registered players e.g. if Albert Park has 1% of registered players then they get 100 copies etc etc.
3) Albert Park is notified that they will pay & receive 100 each week at a cost of say $1/copy for their Players
4) It is recommended that Albert then increase player subs by $20 to cover the cost and each player receives their copy each week or club could subsidies.
5) Clubs could also provide a mailing list of their members and the records could be mailed out to them each week (some supporters do not get to every game and this is were fluctuations occur in waste) - so if a member signs up and pays for a yearly subscription then they are happy and the waste is dramatically decrease. The cost again could be on top of their membership or sponsorship. Sponsors don't get to every game, but weekly recognition with a Record delivered to them will increase support
6) floater: again based on total player lists a floater of, say 2000 copies are printed and split out to the clubs to cover spectators - clubs would be encouraged to sell these for value at canteens to cover cost.
CCCC should decrease waste, reduce costs/copies especially for lower grade clubs, increase value of the Record for readers and above of will allow the league to provide a gauranteed circulation figure that would satisfy advertisers.
Come on HO, take it up - nothing to lose except tonnes of printed Records - you could even promote the league as GREEN
Cardio Carl's Circulation Campaign
1)collate the total player registrations by club, which will also provide an indicative number of members/club
2) based on required circulation per issue (say 10,000 copies) split the allocations to each club based on their share of registered players e.g. if Albert Park has 1% of registered players then they get 100 copies etc etc.
3) Albert Park is notified that they will pay & receive 100 each week at a cost of say $1/copy for their Players
4) It is recommended that Albert then increase player subs by $20 to cover the cost and each player receives their copy each week or club could subsidies.
5) Clubs could also provide a mailing list of their members and the records could be mailed out to them each week (some supporters do not get to every game and this is were fluctuations occur in waste) - so if a member signs up and pays for a yearly subscription then they are happy and the waste is dramatically decrease. The cost again could be on top of their membership or sponsorship. Sponsors don't get to every game, but weekly recognition with a Record delivered to them will increase support
6) floater: again based on total player lists a floater of, say 2000 copies are printed and split out to the clubs to cover spectators - clubs would be encouraged to sell these for value at canteens to cover cost.
CCCC should decrease waste, reduce costs/copies especially for lower grade clubs, increase value of the Record for readers and above of will allow the league to provide a gauranteed circulation figure that would satisfy advertisers.
Come on HO, take it up - nothing to lose except tonnes of printed Records - you could even promote the league as GREEN
- Oct 7, 2002
- 16,157
- 16,855
- AFL Club
- Collingwood
FWIW for 2011 clubs have nominated how many AF's they wish to receive each week - given the choice of a minimum of 20 up to 120.
Cardio Carl
Cancelled
Yeah I know, but watch committed clubs get done over by non-committed clubs.
HO must use fact based information and allocate accordingly - need to show some true leadership.
Asking clubs what they want is akin to asking the kids who want's caulifower - end of day it just gets chucked out
Not sure I get your logic.
Surely a club would have better fact based information on what they use and what they throw away than the VAFA using figures to decide.
Surely letting a club that only uses 20 to only order 20 and throw zero away would be better (and less waste which you are arguing) then making them take 120 and the other 100 go unused and hence get thrown out?
Cardio Carl
Cancelled
that's fine if the Records are free, when your incurring a cost on this decision then do you go : excessive - just right - or conservative?.
3 cost scenarios x numerous clubs = massive discrepancies
