amazing interview, Jones v gill, afl and asadas dirty laundry queried

[Lissy]

Perhaps there is fault with both parties.

It's called boredom waiting for the 31st.

 

[nineteen eighty]

I'll give you the response you don't want to hear:

- the AFL anti-doping policy sets out procedures that the AFL is supposed to follow at the commencement of each season regarding the documentation of substances.
- ASADA's case is that Dank injected the players with a banned substance (Thymosin Beta 4) without the players' knowledge.
- Bruce Reid went to the AFL in pre-season 2012 and told them that there was unauthorised injections (tribulus) happening at Essendon and there was no follow up
- The AFL was aware that something dodgy was happening because Harcourt admitted as much and they were sending samples to Germany for peptide testing

If the AFL had have followed their own procedures it is highly likely that:

1. There would have been no sports science 'arms race' as Demetriou regularly called it prior to Essendon being put under the microscope
2. There wouldn't have been governance failures at Essendon, nor at the other 12 clubs that answered the survey in a fashion that would suggest they had similar failures
3. Dank's practices could potentially have been exposed and remedied at Gold Coast or in his role providing consulting services to Robinson at Geelong, way before he caused problems at Essendon and before he was starting to consult with Melbourne players
4. There wouldn't be players exposed to health risks

Hirdy and his UN text message say hi

 

[CD Xbow]

With the grubby, bigoted, racist Alan Jones sticking his bib in, this epic just keeps getting better.
What a lot of scoundrels now support Hirdy, and what strange connections.
Poor Lance, with mates like these who needs enemies.
Anyway, time for a quickie, it's clearly not over till the fat lady sings.

 

[Cylon7]

It's called boredom waiting for the 31st.

No, I believe there is fault on both sides.

 

[Reality rules]

Of course. My comment refers to the level of interest ive had in this saga

Unfortunately that goes with the turf. But some of the "outthere" EFC supporters on here, you get tarred with the same brush. I don't share that opinion because I respect your opinions especially in the face of the abuse you have received. That's grossly unfair because you always accept the wrongs and offer balanced counter arguments.

 

[mysainters]

For someone who wasn't involved in the program to begin with hes doing a damn fine job of utilizing all available attention to highlight just what a tool he is.

I don't get it at all...

He was one of the most liked and respected players in the AFL, now he attempts to belittle the guy running said comp.

It's not even his battle.

 

[Bombfire]

Yes and he got his punishment and is still getting it!

Can't wait to see Hirdy jumping fences.

 

[nineteen eighty]

I am not claiming innocence, I, like you have no idea what happened. I would like the club to be judged fairly on non tampered evidence. I have faith in the judges decision on the 31st, and whatever way it goes, want it to end there. No appeals from either side and move on. Many Essendon supporters And myself have had enough

Lucky for you then that a number of courts and judges have found the investigation all kosher.

 

[Proper Gander]

Can't wait to see Hirdy jumping fences.

Like a pole vaulter?

Neither can I

 

[Proper Gander]

I don't get it at all...

He was one of the most liked and respected players in the AFL, now he attempts to belittle the guy running said comp.

It's not even his battle.

Beats me too. But he would be captain in the event of suspensions, I would guess

 

[Proper Gander]

i would never have dreamed you were such a brown tongue.

Zinger!

 

[Bombfire]

Lucky for you then that a number of courts and judges have found the investigation all kosher.

That's where I've gone wrong. I thought all those eminent judges determined the joint investigation was legal.

 

[Bombfire]

Keep drinking the kool aid.

Are you one of the illegitimate offspring of Dicky (rip me off) Pratt?

 

[nineteen eighty]

Thank you for your response. I agree it appears at first glance the AFL were suspicious and whilst warning Hird etc to not head down a path, they could have being more diligent in following up further. I still don't see how that makes it the AFL's ultimate responsible here, as it was Essendon's program, but it does appear more could have been done. I still don't feel this absolve Essendon of the majority of culpability (I'd say 95% Essendon, 5% AFL)

Sorry but this is all EFC's doing. They are 100% culpable. The AFL may not have followed up in a more stringent manner when they knew something was up but all of the culpability sits with EFC. The program was in place by the coaching staff and executed by Dank. It was they who decided to inject the players many times over with off-label, not approved for human use drugs. And then when ole Doc stopped the program, Hird got his trusty "sideshow bob" in Corcoran apply his UN skills. And ole Doc caved in and let it resume. And Thompson knew what was going on and just turned a blind eye.

EFC 100% culpable for mine.

 

[Back One Out]

Forget for a moment that the topic is Essendon. Let's make it crochet.

You think you're building capital for yourself relying upon an interview where:

The interviewer is yelling at the respondent.
The interviewer employs a technique called pattern interruption to control the direction of the interview.
The interviewer drops small micro interruptions in the respondent's statements so the listener can't parse the sentences.
The interviewer is quoting a court document in a case that has been thrown/laughed out of two courts by 4 judges.
The interviewer is attributing the statements of another person to the respondent.
The interviewer can suddenly halt the interview when the respondent tries answering a question.
The interviewer responds to the answers by simply yelling the next question.

Good luck in life mate. Trolleys will always need pushing.

Not to mention the actual volume level of the interviewer was about three times that of his 'adversary' so that he could drown him out whenever it suited him and do all those things you listed above.

I'm surprised Mclachlan agreed to appear on Jones's show

Why would you bother?

 

[Boxhead_31]

This is the stupidest thing I've read in 2015 and I don't expect it to be topped.
Well done.
Anyone who thinks 'Hird was not punished' is a complete prat.
12 months of media on his nature strip, kids harrassed at school, being branded a cheat in every afl associated media outlet. Yeah, he got off lightly.

Anyone who thinks he had media on his doorstep for 12 months whilst he was under "suspension" just topped the untoppable most stupid comment for 2015

 

[peppy la pew]

Anyone who thinks he had media on his doorstep for 12 months whilst he was under "suspension" just topped the untoppable most stupid comment for 2015

I'm not sure Albert could see any media from his position,

Parked behind his wife's skirt with the kids in front of him.

 

[Back One Out]

more misplaced is the mob mentality to hang the blame on him.

For mine, Hird was punished. A year out spent fixing his deficiencies as an inexperienced coach (which was noted at the time of his appointment, hence the coaching panel of Thompson, McCartney, Craig, and now Harvey and Neeld). Its more than a touch juvenile to continue to hold someone to account for something they've been punished for.

In Rd 3 of 2013, someone ask Demetriou if Hird should step down and he replied yes. From that day, the argument shifted from ASADA investigating the club to a hunt to apportion blame on individuals, and in particular Hird (swift justice being better than precision for some reason). I did not see daily doorstopping of Evans (our CEO and ultimately responsible for everything at the club, a la any other organisations CEO). Nor Demetriou as CEO of the AFL. And barely heard a peep from Andruska as the CEO of the organisation responsible for policing this and running the investigation.
I have little doubt, if this played out behind closed doors, it would be over (a la Crowley, though he had the positive test that certainly helped ASADA's case).

I believe Hird deserved to be held to account. But ultimately, he wasn't running the club, and the doctors don't report to him (why they report to anyone at the club and not a central AFL medical board i don't know). For that, he copped a year's suspension. To say he should be sacked, regardless of the outcome on March 31 and beyond, is both narrow minded and very unfair.

You want to hold someone to account, the CEO of our club at the time is gone. What more do you want?

My "devotion" to a legend of our club is based on giving people the chance for redemption. Its not beyond everyone.
Im also sympathetic to anyone who is unfairly made a scapegoat due to their profile and the pathetic parochialism elements of society show to figures they detest when they get a sniff of a chance to.

Jesus, mate.

EVERYONE else at Essendon who were in positions of authority have done the right thing by the club and resigned.

How can anyone absolve Hird of responsibility? It was Hird's final call to bring Dank on board at the recommendation of Robinson and run with the infamous "black ops". Forget all sensationalism surrounding that and think about what was discussed. Hird gave Dank the green light to run his supplement program and sail close to the edge. Hird received regular reports from Dank on where the players were at and the injections they were to receive.

Did you not read any of the texts which Hird and Dan sent to each other?

http://resources.news.com.au/files/2013/04/11/1226618/607930-aus-sport-file-james-hird-texts.pdf

Would you be defending your coach like this if it was someone like Brendan McCartney?
Would you be pleading for him to be given a chance at redemption?
Pfft. No fricken way. You'd want his head on a spike.

 

[tesla1962]

I don't get it at all...

He was one of the most liked and respected players in the AFL, now he attempts to belittle the guy running said comp.

It's not even his battle.

Haha you can post dozens of times on the topic but some bloke who knows more than you can't tweet anything because it's not his battle

Priceless HTB

 

[mysainters]

Haha you can post dozens of times on the topic but some bloke who knows more than you can't tweet anything because it's not his battle

Priceless HTB

You have a point, I'm such a high profile Bigfooty poster.

I should be careful.

 

[Defacto]

What is HTB?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[imperial_oz]

What is HTB?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Hot Topic Board

 

[Bombfire]

Jesus, mate.

EVERYONE else at Essendon who were in positions of authority have done the right thing by the club and resigned.

How can anyone absolve Hird of responsibility? It was Hird's final call to bring Dank on board at the recommendation of Robinson and run with the infamous "black ops". Forget all sensationalism surrounding that and think about what was discussed. Hird gave Dank the green light to run his supplement program and sail close to the edge. Hird received regular reports from Dank on where the players were at and the injections they were to receive.

Did you not read any of the texts which Hird and Dan sent to each other?

http://resources.news.com.au/files/2013/04/11/1226618/607930-aus-sport-file-james-hird-texts.pdf

Would you be defending your coach like this if it was someone like Brendan McCartney?
Would you be pleading for him to be given a chance at redemption?
Pfft. No fricken way. You'd want his head on a spike.

There you go, Robinson brought in Dank, Hird wanted a WADA compliant program, Robinson got sacked, Robinson got a secret payout.

 

[pugthemagician]

You people really don't get what this is about, forget the court case, that was about illegal gathering of information. We lost, fine. This is about evidence manipulation, that's what we are talking about. Get it? Oh, and glad we have people like you to push them

What evidence was manipulated? Jones quotes Andruska notes from a phone call with Gill in relation to the AFL's request for a Investigation/Interim Report for the AFL to punish the EFC in 2013 in relation to governance.

The AFL requested information about the "environment" at the club. ASADA withheld information that was not relevant to this aim or hat would compromise their Investigation. Also there was ACC investigation material that was not allowed to be put into the report.

This was all raised by Hird and Essendon in the court case to try and get the investigation ruled illegal.

don't believe me? from p43-45 of the Middleton findings!

On 19 June 2013, Ms Andruska met with the following people (among others):

Malcolm Holmes QC; Mr Burgess; Ms Perdikogiannis; Mr Dillon of the AFL; Mr Clothier; and Mr McLachlan.


Mr McLachlan on behalf of the AFL again asked for a report and disclosed that such report was required to “resolve matters” and preserve the integrity of the 2013 season. There was also the issue of governance failure issues as well. The outcome of the meeting was recorded as follows:

ASADA/AFL Meetings - Table of Outcomes

[In a column titled ‘Outcome’]

Purpose: Understand what AFL required from ASADA and to reach agreement on what could be provided by when.

Agreed
1. ASADA would provide an Investigators Report drawing together the outcome of

the interviews of the Essendon players...

[In a column titled ‘Follow up’]

ASADA worked up content page of report to discuss at weekly catch up call on Tuesday 25 June.

The AFL wanted to use any report supplied by ASADA “as a basis for its decision- making”. It would present it to the AFL Commission. Mr McLachlan made it clear to ASADA, as Ms Andruska’s notes record:

Final series
- players in it – Essendon
- can’t have this
- corrupted 2013
- undermine the comp for 10 years

Ms Andruska summarised:

- use as basis of decision making

- table to commission

- prosecution on AOD-6904

On 25 June 2013, solicitor Tony Hargreaves wrote to ASADA on behalf of Essendon and raised various issues. He commented:

You have advised that the draft report is nearly complete. We assume the reason a report is being prepared is because this is a ‘hybrid’ investigation being conducted jointly by ASADA and the AFL. Accordingly, there are other possible breaches of the AFL Anti-Doping Code which extend beyond the issues of Anti-Doping Rule violations. These other possible breaches do not give rise to any subsequent powers under the ASADA Act or the NAD Scheme. However, they do give rise to the exercise of powers by the AFL under its Anti-Doping Code.

Later that same day, there was a telephone conference between Ms Andruska of ASADA and Mr McLachlan of the AFL and others. A table of contents from the proposed draft Interim Report was circulated and discussed.

On 26 June 2013, Ms Andruska spoke to Mr McLachlan of the AFL. She noted Mr McLachlan’s comments as follows:

Take points off Essendon - if high court we need all the detail to get through that ...
problematic if not full report

...
Get outcome we need
Take out bits that might compromise what we need

From other correspondence relating to the drafting of the Interim Report, it is clear that ASADA at this time was taking the prime responsibility for drafting the report, with input from the AFL.

On or about 28 June 2013, Ms Andruska went on leave, with Mr Burgess becoming acting CEO.

On 2 July 2013, a further phone conference occurred between ASADA and the AFL concerning the contents of the Interim Report. ASADA recorded the outcomes of the conference as follows:

ASADA/AFL Meetings - Table of Outcomes

[In a column titled ‘Outcome’]

Agreed:

ASADA will provide a report to the AFL with as much information as is lawfully possible and which does not prejudice ongoing investigations.

The report to the AFL will include:

Conclusions on the environment at Essendon that goes to the behaviour of its support personnel.

ASADA’s position on whether it intends to prosecute any cases on AOD9604

Conclusions on whether there is sufficient evidence for ASADA to further investigate individual players (as required by its statutory obligations) with respect to other prohibited substances (incl hexarlin and thymosin beta 4)

On 9 July 2013, a teleconference took place between ASADA and the AFL. The AFL expressed concern about any limitation on the contents of the report ASADA was to provide. The AFL wanted the report for its own decision-making purposes.

On 16 July 2013, ASADA and the AFL discussed the impending Interim Report. Mr Clothier of the AFL made clear what the AFL wanted included in the report and the uses to which it would put such information:

ASADA/AFL Meetings - Table of Outcomes

[In a column titled ‘Outcome’]

Uncontrolled Environment at Essendon

The AFL is not looking for conclusions or commentary on the uncontrolled environment ...

...

The AFL required the information/evidence collected through the interview process to be assembled in a way that paints a picture of the uncontrolled EFC environment - to a large extent provide information (evidence to support) the Ziggy Report which is all conclusions.

The AFL also wants the Report to include any evidence that the EFC was duped - notwithstanding its incompetence to protect themselves and the EFC against such threats.

The AFL considers the Report to be one of a number of items that the AFL will be considering in determining appropriate action against the EFC.



End of quote

 

[Back One Out]

There you go, Robinson brought in Dank, Hird wanted a WADA compliant program, Robinson got sacked, Robinson got a secret payout.

So why did Hird get suspended for 12 months? Why did Evans and Robson both resign? Why did Corocoran get suspended and walk away?