amazing interview, Jones v gill, afl and asadas dirty laundry queried

[FFC_RoyBoys]

Robinson brought Dank in, and Thompson introduced Robinson

So Robinson was so influential at EFC that he could "bring in" a sport scientist?

Mxett whether you like it or not the program was James Hird's baby from day one. No one else at the club had the power to get it up and running. Cannot be a committee decision as committees are, by their nature conservative beasts. A decision that bold can only be driven by an individual and, the only individual at the club who had the wide ranging influence was JH. Go back and review Dr Harcourts presentation to the drugs conference - spelled it out without equivocation.

 

[romeoh]

like Matthews or Malthouse or Sheedy, Hird is an influential figure and has every right to make demands even though he has no direct responsibility in ensuring they occur. Demanding the club stay within the rules is hardly a stretch that required his direct involvement

Well am going to have to agree to disagree. If as the Head coach, you are the driving force behind a cutting edge program, a program that you understand is pushing the envelope. And then if you see irregular practises happening during the running of this program and at that point you say 'not my problem, someone else is responsible for that', then that strikes me as problematic. Sorry, just can't see my way around that.

 

[LoungeLizard]

semantics. hird didn't seek Dank

really?
He wanted a sports scientist, he asked Robinson if he knew any, Robinson recommended Dank, Hird interviewed Dank, Dank was hired.
But yes you are right, semantics.

 

[citizen-erased]

At what stage in the last 10yrs have Essendon shown any chance of challenging more than hopefully winning a final?

how long did it take the hawks up til 08? these things take time.

3-4 years ago Port were dead in the water. They are now talked about as flag contenders.

 

[pugthemagician]

dank potentially used banned substances at 2 other AFL clubs yet no one called out head coaches of these cubs funny enough

Mxett if they were called out I would be saying the same thing. In fact if the MFC was in the same boat I would be calling for Roos head also.

I deplore any leaders who when they make a mistake blame everyone else around them. If its under your power to act then act because, as we have seen, these things become bigger then Ben Hurt and can drag on and on.

Hypothetical:
Hird steps down whilst the initial investigation takes place and gets done for twelve months on top of it. Would other clubs supporters still be calling for his head as arduously as they are now. How different would the environment for Hird be if he had humbled himself and taken responsibility and acted like the buck stopped with him.

Whilst he may be respected at the EFC I'm not sure it's the same in the rest the AFL industry.

Ppl can be nostalgic and reminisce over the player and his prowess but his legacy right now is 34 players in front of the AFL Anti Doping Tribunal and 2 failed court actions to stop it happening.

 

[citizen-erased]

I don't expect you to call for his head. I believe if Hird was a good a leader as everyone thinks he is he should have stood down at the beginning.

He was responsible for the health and safety of his players as well as everyone else.

As a company director if I see something wrong and don't act I am liable. As a leader if someone writes to me and tells me there is an issue if I don't act I am liable.

Hird should have done everything in his power to ensure the supplements program was WADA compliant. I.e ask for verification from ASADA. The AFL, AfLPA and ASADA all have education programs to remind everyone of how to stay within the WADA code. Hell the ASADA website has info.

The only reason you would not do this is if you really don't want to know.

This is my argument though. He set what look to be very clear instructions to stay onside with the code.
If he was going to source the materials, check their status and oversee the administering of them to the players, whilst holding down the coach duties he was charged with, why hire Dank in the first place?

 

[citizen-erased]

Needs to start firing away at a few people after March 31. If people have let him down badly he needs to absolutely rip into them other wise the general public will think he has plenty to hide. If players get suspended it just has to be Hird v Dank or Essendon v Dank.
The only attacks have been against the AFL or ASADA and the general public see that as shirking the issue a bit.

Dank has stuck with the line that the players weren't administered anything illegal. Until this is proved otherwise, I can't see Hird or EFC going after him. If March 31 shows him to be lying, then I doubt there will time to draw breath between the decision and us chasing Dank for god knows what.

 

[Lissy]

how long did it take the hawks up til 08? these things take time.

3-4 years ago Port were dead in the water. They are now talked about as flag contenders.

but I never claimed hawks could challenge then. You are. Doesn't matter how long it took port. Last year the actually did prove they are contenders

 

[Lissy]

Mxett if they were called out I would be saying the same thing. In fact if the MFC was in the same boat I would be calling for Roos head also.

I deplore any leaders who when they make a mistake blame everyone else around them. If its under your power to act then act because, as we have seen, these things become bigger then Ben Hurt and can drag on and on.

Hypothetical:
Hird steps down whilst the initial investigation takes place and gets done for twelve months on top of it. Would other clubs supporters still be calling for his head as arduously as they are now. How different would the environment for Hird be if he had humbled himself and taken responsibility and acted like the buck stopped with him.

Whilst he may be respected at the EFC I'm not sure it's the same in the rest the AFL industry.

Ppl can be nostalgic and reminisce over the player and his prowess but his legacy right now is 34 players in front of the AFL Anti Doping Tribunal and 2 failed court actions to stop it happening.

Also by stepping down pending he would look less guilty than fighting legalities

 

[pugthemagician]

This is my argument though. He set what look to be very clear instructions to stay onside with the code.
If he was going to source the materials, check their status and oversee the administering of them to the players, whilst holding down the coach duties he was charged with, why hire Dank in the first place?

A phone call/email or check the website to ASADA all within his power all not an unreasonable expectation for someone and not time consuming. He could have asked one of his coaches or admin staff to check it out.

I know how's this? Hird could have asked Dank to list all of the substances that were given to the players and then got him to sign off that they were all WADA compliant.

If they had that then that would have shown EFC was duped unequivocally but alas we have nothing. Just the words that the supplement program should be within WADA.

 

[citizen-erased]

but I never claimed hawks could challenge then. You are. Doesn't matter how long it took port. Last year the actually did prove they are contenders

And I'm saying we have the list to do the same. Strong backline, deep middle, ok rucks and require some forward line structure to take the next step and challenge for top 4-6. Which is a win or two more on last season.

 

[citizen-erased]

A phone call/email or check the website to ASADA all within his power all not an unreasonable expectation for someone and not time consuming. He could have asked one of his coaches or admin staff to check it out.

I know how's this? Hird could have asked Dank to list all of the substances that were given to the players and then got him to sign off that they were all WADA compliant.

If they had that then that would have shown EFC was duped unequivocally but alas we have nothing. Just the words that the supplement program should be within WADA.

Which goes to my point. the standard in place to ensure the program stayed onside with the code was poor.
Quite clear this was the case and hird got a year.
What I am saying is that absent of evidence that hird himself sought to breach the code, or explicitly instructing those running the program to do the same, I wont call for his removal.
Could have managed it better and I dareday in the future, all programs will be.

 

[Lissy]

Sincerely hope your pick ups out way your losses. Ignoring whatever the outcome of the 31st. Also I don't see how you can cover injuries.

 

[citizen-erased]

Sincerely hope your pick ups out way your losses. Ignoring whatever the outcome of the 31st. Also I don't see how you can cover injuries.

Ryder is hard to replace but a fit Bellchambers has shown he can.
Crameri isn't a huge loss.
Injuries are injuries.
Our season is predicated on March 31. In my mind, the players cleared gives us a shot at top 4. A couple of games seems silly but given we have the Hawks and swans, not sure it influences the outcome. Anything longer hurts any chance and unbalances the fixture even more for those who play us twice. Should sit the season out at that point.

 

[the conch]

Which goes to my point. the standard in place to ensure the program stayed onside with the code was poor.
Quite clear this was the case and hird got a year.
What I am saying is that absent of evidence that hird himself sought to breach the code, or explicitly instructing those running the program to do the same, I wont call for his removal.
Could have managed it better and I dareday in the future, all programs will be.

I think you're self deluding on this. Any people not with the program were removed. Doc was sidelined. Bomber ignored. Meanwhile coach and assistants were having their own injecting party, vanity drugs et al... just part of the culture. A culture that has a history with Hird's playing days (cheating) and his "dietary advisor".

 

[76woodenspooners]

Alan Jones is clearly a James Hird fan. Jones asked "Did the AFL provide a safe workplace for players" .....How the hell could they when Essendon had a black ops going on?

Oh yes EFC provided every detail to the AFL !!!!!

Alan Jones was clearly upset because a "Great Australian Athlete" was being unfairly picked on. Gee between his orange tan, boners and Tania taking forever notes when does he get time to bleed his heart to Jones?

I hope Alan Jones takes up Gils offer of being "enlightened" with facts

I doubt Alan Jones had even heard of Essendon prior to one of his researchers handing him a brief of "Questions for Gil McLaughlan (CEO of the AFL)" **

** Brief had two post-it notes on it. One said "AFL is a type of football game, kind of like soccer". The other said "This guy is smart, he's got a law degree" - that would have caused Alan to go straight to the "Tough questions" section of the brief.

 

[gavaniacono]

This is my argument though. He set what look to be very clear instructions to stay onside with the code.
If he was going to source the materials, check their status and oversee the administering of them to the players, whilst holding down the coach duties he was charged with, why hire Dank in the first place?

Trust and verify. You don't just ask people to do the right thing in an org. You check that they are doing so also. Hird would have learnt this on his business course in France, sadly, post - negligence in this affair. Any one who runs anything knows the trust and verify principle, or else, they find themselves in trouble.

 

[76woodenspooners]

I bet you gill doesn't take it up, im sure jones would

Oh c'mon, Alan Jones couldn't give a stuff about Essendon or James Hird or the AFL.

All Jones would care about is boasting to his rugby mates over canapés and champagne that he torched the CEO of the AFL for breakfast.

Zero chance of him chatting to Gil off air, what would be the point for him?

 

[sauce_head]

I think they couldn't monitor it properly because so much was done behind closed doors off site

I know two 35+ gear Dons supporters who are no longer. Just can't stand the way it has been managed. They might come back in the end, don't know.

 

[pugthemagician]

Which goes to my point. the standard in place to ensure the program stayed onside with the code was poor.
Quite clear this was the case and hird got a year.
What I am saying is that absent of evidence that hird himself sought to breach the code, or explicitly instructing those running the program to do the same, I wont call for his removal.
Could have managed it better and I dareday in the future, all programs will be.

I definitely can't argue with that other then that I have been saying Hird should have walked when the investigation started. Hird being at your club now is your clubs cross to bare, as the perception from outside will always remain hostile because of his actions.

I have also said if it happened at my club MFC I would be calling for the heads of all involved. If the players were sanctioned I would be sorry for them but at the end of the day an obligation to comply is just that an obligation.

In fact the AOD back flip meant a couple of MFC a players dodged a bullet so I should be thankful. The club doctor who had been involved resigned (or was pushed) at the whiff of scandal. That's how you get in front of an issue.

 

[citizen-erased]

I think you're self deluding on this. Any people not with the program were removed. Doc was sidelined. Bomber ignored. Meanwhile coach and assistants were having their own injecting party, vanity drugs et al... just part of the culture. A culture that has a history with Hird's playing days (cheating) and his "dietary advisor".

And I'm self deluded.....
Got any evidence of Hird cheating in his playing days?

 

[citizen-erased]

Trust and verify. You don't just ask people to do the right thing in an org. You check that they are doing so also. Hird would have learnt this on his business course in France, sadly, post - negligence in this affair. Any one who runs anything knows the trust and verify principle, or else, they find themselves in trouble.

which he did and was punished for
Don't get me wrong, his chance has been burned and has a lot to prove to those standing behind him as coach. But I give the benefit of the doubt this was negligence over any malicious attempt to breach the code, and a second chance is not beyond people.

 

[yaco55]

Gill made one mistake in the interview - Agreeing to an off-the-record briefing with Jones - Gil will be writing emails every day for the next year.

 

[yaco55]

Irony ! Posters complaining about Jones interviewing style and his agenda - This is the template for the HTB.

 

[yaco55]

The other irony! Jones/Gil radio interview got little or no publicity in the AFL accredited industry - But the HTB is making up for the lack of media interest.