An alternative to the 'National' competition

[Carringbush2010]

From the Vic Bias thread I've come to these conclusions:

• There is an advantage to MCG tenants vs non tenants on GF day, or in any HGA
• There is an advantage to non Melbourne teams during the H&A season given they have more HGA.
• The competition is skewed toward market, i:e there's more vic market
• The competition has more participants from vic, be it players, staff (coaches etc.) or media
• Geography is a disadvantage, FIFO etc.
• The WAFC bought licences and in doing so saved certain vic clubs, and certain WAFL clubs from the same (The_Wookie and Roylion would be able to expand on this)
• Those clubs at existential financial threat would've survived anyway because there was and always will be market demand (example Richmond and Collingwood but the clubs would've existed elsewhere or be resurrected anyway - see Fitzroy still exist in the VAFA)
• To make a truly equitable national comp certain clubs would have to dissolve
• To dissolve those clubs would lose 100's of thousands of paying fan base whether by seats or remote.

I would propose we go to what was previous to the VFL expansion:

• We have the state leagues as they were previously, not a lot different for the current state leagues now.
• *Have a playoff of 'champions' of each league at the end of it, the premiers of each comp play off.

OR

• *We have a new National Competition where have new vic expansion clubs and leave the current vic clubs to their own state league.

* I seriously doubt this garner any public support from a vic fan pov.

OR

Non vic fans just vote with their feet and remotes, return their tier 1 comps back to their glory days, would force change.

None the less, ultimately, whichever way one wants to boil it down and dissect it, the majority of the market is in vic, the majority of participants in this game are from vic.

So in short, it's either stay the course to the detriment of non vic fans, or equalize the comp at the detriment of possibly 4 clubs to make it truly national, by doing that we lose 100's of thousands of paying fans - obviously the latter will not happen.

And if the non vics do or would vote with their feet and remotes it would just note what already is - the vic comp, even if there was a separate national comp would garner the most public interest regardless.

Discuss

 

[Danw0w]

Or they can just win the grand final away from home like we did

 

[tandino]

These type of discussions always reminds me of that Simpsons episode where Bart tries to force the toilet to drain in the opposite direction.

There is a logical reason why the VFL succeeded and the National Football League/Australian National Football Council failed to be the primary national body, and why the national competition was underpinned by the the VFL and not through a further expansion of the NFL Night Series. It wasn't a directive from a higher power, just a series of decisions made by stakeholders in the 20 years preceding the conclusion of the first stage of growth of the League in 1997

I like a hypothetical discussion as much as anyone else, but the fact is there's no other catalyst out there to force change, unlike in some other sports. The Saudis and Murdoch couldn't give a toss, and Packer is long dead. But let's say that the Saudis come knocking, the AFL has got the industry so locked down, I don't think there's much prospect of success.

So any reform is left to take place within the AFL ecosystem. Where there are 10 Victorian clubs and with that blocking control of any vote to remove them from the national competition as a bloc. And you have the remainder who despite the list of grievances you list, know within themselves that in fact they do quite well out of the AFL ecosystem.

Could the AFL through it's appointed club boards + the WAFC + Brisbane convince the larger Victorian clubs to turn against their smaller brothers to force 2/4 out of the competition? Perhaps, but is it worth the heartache?

 

[Carringbush2010]

Could the AFL through it's appointed club boards + the WAFC + Brisbane convince the larger Victorian clubs to turn against their smaller brothers to force 2/4 out of the competition? Perhaps, but is it worth the heartache?

Well they would never entertain the idea, for obvious reasons, those smaller clubs are important to the league survival itself.

Not to mention, a 'coup' as you've so subtley submitted isn't possible, for obvious reasons, it's in the league charter, would take a majority vote of all clubs to 'turn' as you put it against the smaller clubs.

Given that ALL clubs feed off the product, which the 'smaller brothers' provide, it's highly doubtful that a majority vote would get up.

Regardless of all that, the op remains.

 

[Truetiger]

Was not an issue in 2018 for the Eagles. 2012 Swans, 2001-03 Lions. Still waiting for the day it is a real National competition.

 

[LoungeLizard]

The real national football league is in South Australia, but no-one wants to play in it, they all want to join the VFL/AFL

 

[Carringbush2010]

Was not an issue in 2018 for the Eagles. 2012 Swans, 2001-03 Lions. Still waiting for the day it is a real National competition.

Well it can't be unless, we remove certain clubs, and for that reason a truly national comp is not possible.

 

[HugeJohnson]

No one is going to pay $643 million a season to broadcast a state league.

 

[Carringbush2010]

No one is going to pay $643 million a season to broadcast a state league.

Well that depends, if say the wafl got all their state supporters back, you can bet your house tv stations definitely would.

 

[Ati Tude]

The only issue to be considered in any of these weird and wacky proposals that people come up with in BF is money. Would the alternative generate more in sponsorship and TV rights than the existing. And the answer is always no. lets play 17 games so everyone plays everyone once. Doesnt work. Less games = less money. Lets cut teams and have a 16 team comp. Doesnt work. Less games = less money.

And to do state league comp. I couldnt care less what happens in SA, WA and basically anything else outside of Vic in that sort of comp and would only pay attention at the end. Less people watch. Less money. Doesnt work. And teams like the Suns and GWS would definitely die.

 

[Purple Suit]

The AFL just need to release a spirit of AFL admin preamble which promises to look after all the interests of the whole country, not sneaky 20 year extensions to the GF agreement without going to the market. Long term, just manage the comp for all, not just the big vic clubs.

To solve the too many vic team issue, they probably need to look at a long term strategy on what they want the comp to look like in 50 years and work towards that. If you had less vic teams, footy would be more expensive due to demand and the comp would make more money. It would also allow them to tap into other markets at no extra expense. That would mean merging at least two, if not another 2 later on if the first merger works. Turning the big 4 into the big 5 might actually be a masterstroke but unfortunately the only way to know is to try it and it might ruin two clubs instead of building a new big one.

 

[Dirty Bird]

At this point there is no alternative.

**** you WA. You caused the mess we're in.

Now we have to make the best of a bad situation.

I just feel it requires 2 changes.

Get rid of 7 having a monopoly on local teams outside of Victoria (Which is actually a catch 22 scenario - the status quo is good for non-vic fans, but bad for non-vic clubs)

And get rid of the MCG having a GF monopoly (Though, if the suggestion is higher ranked team hosts, I'd rather the status quo. That takes it from half the league maybe having an unjust advantage, to one team having a huge advantage every single season. - Pre-determine it a year or two out with another method (I like defending premiers tbh))

 

[Bunk Moreland]

The VFL was already far and away the elite level competition in the 1980s and all it did was expand geographically with new clubs.

The thought that the WAFL and/or SANFL were somehow equal because they were the top-tier leagues in their own (much smaller) states is just incorrect. The clubs didn't have the level of support that VFL clubs did, basically due to population.

Time has shown Perth and Adelaide can support two elite clubs each, perhaps they could support three, but not beyond that. Domestic state leagues would be wildly mismatched.

 

[Carringbush2010]

And to do state league comp. I couldnt care less what happens in SA, WA and basically anything else outside of Vic in that sort of comp and would only pay attention at the end. Less people watch. Less money. Doesnt work. And teams like the Suns and GWS would definitely die.

Again, that depends, IF all the non vic fans did snub the AFL guess where they're going............................ back to their state leagues.

It's either that or continue their misery following the AFL which they have so much disdain for.

 

[M Malice]

 

[Carringbush2010]

At this point there is no alternative.

Well you've got choice, IF non vic have such disdain for the AFL and all its inequities, vote with your feet and remotes and snub it.

Follow the state leagues, they're pretty good and would force the AFL to return back to the VFL.

Win win.

 

[Carringbush2010]

The VFL was already far and away the elite level competition in the 1980s and all it did was expand geographically with new clubs.

The thought that the WAFL and/or SANFL were somehow equal because they were the top-tier leagues in their own (much smaller) states is just incorrect. The clubs didn't have the level of support that VFL clubs did, basically due to population.

Time has shown Perth and Adelaide can support two elite clubs each, perhaps they could support three, but not beyond that. Domestic state leagues would be wildly mismatched.

Of course those leagues were smaller, because they have smaller market. That doesn't / didn't diminish the quality of footy

Still better than what non vic fans have now, so they tell us.

There is choice for non vic fans, snub the afl and follow your state comp.

 

[Carringbush2010]

To solve the too many vic team issue, they probably need to look at a long term strategy on what they want the comp to look like in 50 years and work towards that

Problem with this is these clubs that should be dissolved to achieve the equity that non vics want is that they're all well over 100 yo, their fan and members aren't going to just slowly over time accept the removal of their club.

To dissolve clubs to make the comp work won't work because you lose market. They were here first and all that.

You either.

• Continue following your current club in an uneven comp and accept it.
• Snub the AFL and follow your club of choice in the WAFL (I'd fairly assume you have a WAFL team)

Coz what we've got now ain't changin.

 

[Carringbush2010]

So what's your solution M Malice ?

 

[M Malice]

So what's your solution M Malice ?

You're looking for a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

 

[Walshawk]

Well that depends, if say the wafl got all their state supporters back, you can bet your house tv stations definitely would.

No, viewers would watch the higher standard VFL. And all the best players would leave the WAFL and play in the higher standard, richer VFL like they used to.

Actually that would be awesome.

 

[Purple Suit]

Problem with this is these clubs that should be dissolved to achieve the equity that non vics want is that they're all well over 100 yo, their fan and members aren't going to just slowly over time accept the removal of their club.

To dissolve clubs to make the comp work won't work because you lose market. They were here first and all that.

You either.

• Continue following your current club in an uneven comp and accept it.
• Snub the AFL and follow your club of choice in the WAFL (I'd fairly assume you have a WAFL team)

Coz what we've got now ain't changin.

Why would you dissolve them when you can merge two small clubs together and make a large one? If there were 8 teams in vic it would be perfect but you get there merging them & hopefully keeping the fans.

 

[Carringbush2010]

You're looking for a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

Is that so? Seems there's a lotta fans who view it as a problem.

There ya go everyone there isn't a problem, so no need to wish change for the competition.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Why would you dissolve them when you can merge two small clubs together and make a large one? If there were 8 teams in vic it would be perfect but you get there merging them & hopefully keeping the fans.

Fans won't follow a merged team, you'll lose more than you'll gain.

Again, for such a thing to happen, the merging clubs would have to consult their members and their members will refuse, even if they did then it'd have to go to a vote from all clubs, only a majority would get up.

Given that ALL clubs receive funds from the product they provide, it's highly unlikely a vote would get up.

 

[Carringbush2010]

No, viewers would watch the higher standard VFL. And all the best players would leave the WAFL and play in the higher standard, richer VFL like they used to.

Actually that would be awesome.

That's the point I'm trying to epiphanize to the non vic fans, it'd be either the way it was (with obvious differences) or they can continue to follow what they don't like.

That's pretty much it.