Andrew Mackie

[PatrickBateman]

Re: Mackie MUST be dropped

Here's a backline without Mackie:

B: Milburn - Scarlett - Lonergan
HB: Enright - Taylor - T.Hunt

Plus Wocjinski, Josh Hunt and even Kelly if required. Nothing wrong with those options. Height, strength, experience, skill and pace in abundance.

Pace in abundance? Can I get some what you're smoking please?

None of those 6 starters have genuine pace, and that 6 would not work well at all against a Carlton or smallish, quick forward line. Wojcinski isn't good in a key post, and T.Hunt hasn't proven himself in a pure stopping role either. For mine we need J.Hunt in a pocket.

BTW, I agree that Mackie should come out for T.Hunt. I'm sick of seeing him squibbing contests, going to ground and chopping up his possessions. How the guy plays like he does and manages to maintain such arrogance is seriously beyond me.

 

[Partridge]

Re: Mackie MUST be dropped

Pace in abundance? Can I get some what you're smoking please?

None of those 6 starters have genuine pace, and that 6 would not work well at all against a Carlton or smallish, quick forward line. Wojcinski isn't good in a key post, and T.Hunt hasn't proven himself in a pure stopping role either. For mine we need J.Hunt in a pocket.

BTW, I agree that Mackie should come out for T.Hunt. I'm sick of seeing him squibbing contests, going to ground and chopping up his possessions. How the guy plays like he does and manages to maintain such arrogance is seriously beyond me.

You think Taylor Hunt doesn't have genuine pace? We'll agree to disagree. By the way I wasn't referring to only the starting 6 either, it was all the players I listed. Personally I'd classify Wocjinski and T.Hunt as definitely quick players, Scarlett is extremely quick for his size and the only slow players would be Lonergan and Milburn.

 

[cat in sydney]

Re: Mackie MUST be dropped

You think Taylor Hunt doesn't have genuine pace? We'll agree to disagree. By the way I wasn't referring to only the starting 6 either, it was all the players I listed. Personally I'd classify Wocjinski and T.Hunt as definitely quick players, Scarlett is extremely quick for his size and the only slow players would be Lonergan and Milburn.

I'd be adding Enright to that short list as well. I've noticed this year that he is really losing pace, which is not too bad yet as his skills and footy brain overcome this on the whole, but it will only be a matter of time before he gets caught out badly against a quick opponent.

 

[PatrickBateman]

Re: Mackie MUST be dropped

You think Taylor Hunt doesn't have genuine pace? We'll agree to disagree. By the way I wasn't referring to only the starting 6 either, it was all the players I listed. Personally I'd classify Wocjinski and T.Hunt as definitely quick players, Scarlett is extremely quick for his size and the only slow players would be Lonergan and Milburn.

To me Taylor Hunt and Wojcinski are irrelevant. Why? Wojcinski is possibly the worst defender in our side. Struggles to apply pressure without giving away free kicks and isn't heavy enough. He has never taken a key defensive position in his career anyway, it's not what he's there for.

Taylor Hunt is unproven as a stopper, and I've seen nothing which would suggest he's a good key defender or able to match it with the best smalls(that J.Hunt has taken for years) yet. It's easy for the youngsters to look good when the teams is winning... as Premiership contenders I'm not convinced we swap out proven players this year if they ARE performing. Obviously IMO I'd drop Mackie for T.Hunt everyday of the week. Not for J.Hunt though.

 

[Cattery]

Re: Mackie MUST be dropped

BTW, I agree that Mackie should come out for T.Hunt. I'm sick of seeing him squibbing contests, ......

Interesting opinion, bit hard to take it seriously though coming from someone who once declared Corey Enright was the biggest squib going around, and that Joel Corey refused to put his head over the footy.

 

[PatrickBateman]

Re: Mackie MUST be dropped

Interesting opinion, bit hard to take it seriously though coming from someone who once declared Corey Enright was the biggest squib going around, and that Joel Corey refused to put his head over the footy.

Happy to admit if you produce the quotes, otherwise you're just looking like a muppet here champ.

 

[vinum coupe]

Re: Mackie MUST be dropped

Taylor Hunt is unproven as a stopper, and I've seen nothing which would suggest he's a good key defender or able to match it with the best smalls(that J.Hunt has taken for years) yet. It's easy for the youngsters to look good when the teams is winning... as Premiership contenders I'm not convinced we swap out proven players this year if they ARE performing. Obviously IMO I'd drop Mackie for T.Hunt everyday of the week. Not for J.Hunt though.

Well that settles that.
Either you drink too much and your memory only goes back 21 days or you haven't watched the footy this year.

He was just running free at the start of the year was he?

You were the one at the start of year who said not to play kids weren't you?

 

[PatrickBateman]

Re: Mackie MUST be dropped

Well that settles that.
Either you drink too much and your memory only goes back 21 days or you haven't watched the footy this year.

He was just running free at the start of the year was he?

You were the one at the start of year who said not to play kids weren't you?

So a handful of games(wins), prove he's a great stopper? Who did he play on? I'm on the drink? Pfft...

No, I said we shouldn't play kids at the expense of IN FORM senior players. To put it simply, I'm not going to be convinced of Taylor Hunt's key defensive ability until we're under the pump and he consistently beats good opponents. I've seen him play good games and not so good games, which is to be expected. He needs more time in a Mackie type role(lose in defense) to get used to the pace of the game. I really can't see what qualities Mackie has over T.Hunt. And Hunt is going to benefit greatly from as much game time as possible.

 

[vinum coupe]

Re: Mackie MUST be dropped

I can't remember who he played on earlier in the year.

But he was definitely not playing loose.
I remember because it surprised me. I thought this early in his career he would have been given some freedom to run and pick up the pace of the game as you point out.

But they didn't do it.

He was very scratchy on the weekend and didn't deserve to be there.
But going on his early season form (which is all we have to work from) I will back him in to develop and produce during the finals this year.

 

[Cattery]

Re: Mackie MUST be dropped

Happy to admit if you produce the quotes, otherwise you're just looking like a muppet here champ.

Geez I might just spend some time and try tracking them down, but I suppose if I do you'll just deny that it was you posting under another name back then, so there's not really much point to it is there?

Still I might give it a bash just for the hell of it.

 

[PatrickBateman]

Re: Mackie MUST be dropped

He was very scratchy on the weekend and didn't deserve to be there.
But going on his early season form (which is all we have to work from) I will back him in to develop and produce during the finals this year.

I agree. Point is, no player with his experience could be expected to take the best small forwards in high pressure games and dominate... especially if our midfield is under the pump. If he can then great... I just don't think its the best option at this stage for him or the club.

 

[PatrickBateman]

Re: Mackie MUST be dropped

Geez I might just spend some time and try tracking them down, but I suppose if I do you'll just deny that it was you posting under another name back then, so there's not really much point to it is there?

Still I might give it a bash just for the hell of it.

Go for your life. I expect an apology unless you find me calling either Joel Corey or Corey Enright a squib.. or the like. Start preparing it now.

 

[David the Cat]

Re: Mackie MUST be dropped

Taylor Hunt is in our best 22. I think so.....but...more importantly its clear that Chris Scott thinks so too.

 

[vinum coupe]

Re: Mackie MUST be dropped

I agree. Point is, no player with his experience could be expected to take the best small forwards in high pressure games and dominate... especially if our midfield is under the pump. If he can then great... I just don't think its the best option at this stage for him or the club.

Yeah I agree. Except the last bit.
Give him the jobs as they come. If they don't work just free him up elsewhere.
That's one of the good things about him. He is not one dimensional.

And as I wrote somewhere. The club want the ball in his hands. SO if it's not working down back just move him.

Did you see during the Carlton game when the game was red hot that Duncan kept being put in the centre? I love that stuff. While we have the players to support, lets keep dropping them in the deep end.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Re: Mackie MUST be dropped

I agree. Point is, no player with his experience could be expected to take the best small forwards in high pressure games and dominate... especially if our midfield is under the pump. If he can then great... I just don't think its the best option at this stage for him or the club.

Well the coaches seem to think it is because VC is right they often seem to give him more defensive jobs. I'll back them over us.

I also agree Taylor Hunt shouldn't have played last week, but the fact that he did tells us a fair bit about how Scott rates him.

The reality is, come finals, if everyone is fit, and Milburn doesn't slow down dramatically, one of either Mackie or Josh Hunt will be dropped for Taylor Hunt (keep in mind all three are playing at the moment because we've always got one or two guys out injured each week). I'm not particularly saying I'm cheering for that to happen, I'm just saying it will. And it will, it's only a question of which one will go, assuming most people's form stay where it is now.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Re: Mackie MUST be dropped

Yeah I agree. Except the last bit.
Give him the jobs as they come. If they don't work just free him up elsewhere.
That's one of the good things about him. He is not one dimensional.

And as I wrote somewhere. The club want the ball in his hands. SO if it's not working down back just move him.

Did you see during the Carlton game when the game was red hot that Duncan kept being put in the centre? I love that stuff. While we have the players to support, lets keep dropping them in the deep end.

Yeah gee I loved that too, Scott putting Duncan in the mids, I hope it happens more often.

On Poodle, you are right they want it in his hands, one thing I noticed was a lot of other guys were handballing laterally chip chip in the backline, trying to get away from pressure and create space (which is fine) but as soon as Poodle got it, bang, ran straightline full tilt even when there was a brick wall of opponents to run straight into. While he stuffed it up a bit, the fact that he was doing that, and he seems to have been doing it all year, even when it's not 'playing the percentages' tells me he's playing to instructions and they have told him they will get the ball in his hands and he MUST use his pace to try and take it on. Which is why I said he's more likely to get dropped if he stops doing that and goes into his shell, than if h makes clangers.

Defensive wise, I wouldn't use him as a small defender every week, some weeks it will work and some weeks it won't, but it's certainly a good option to have for us.

 

[PatrickBateman]

Re: Mackie MUST be dropped

Yeah I agree. Except the last bit.
Give him the jobs as they come. If they don't work just free him up elsewhere.
That's one of the good things about him. He is not one dimensional.

Well the coaches seem to think it is because VC is right they often seem to give him more defensive jobs. I'll back them over us.

That's fine, we'll have to agree to disagree. I really was talking finals too with regards to him taking the best small forward opponents one-on-one in high pressure games. You never know. Tom Harley was a good key position defender in his earlier years, got pretty much owned by every forward in his last 3 years when playing one-on-one, so they made him the space filler / 3rd man. Senior players can go off the boil so if this happens, by all means T.Hunt should be there in a key role.

 

[CatFan79]

Re: Mackie MUST be dropped

n Poodle, you are right they want it in his hands, one thing I noticed was a lot of other guys were handballing laterally chip chip in the backline, trying to get away from pressure and create space (which is fine) but as soon as Poodle got it, bang, ran straightline full tilt even when there was a brick wall of opponents to run straight into. While he stuffed it up a bit, the fact that he was doing that, and he seems to have been doing it all year, even when it's not 'playing the percentages' tells me he's playing to instructions and they have told him they will get the ball in his hands and he MUST use his pace to try and take it on. Which is why I said he's more likely to get dropped if he stops doing that and goes into his shell, than if h makes clangers.

Can a mod create an 'overrating Taylor Hunt's unproven ability' thread so every other thread isn't constantly littered with it?

 

[Partridge]

Re: Mackie MUST be dropped

That's fine, we'll have to agree to disagree. I really was talking finals too with regards to him taking the best small forward opponents one-on-one in high pressure games. You never know. Tom Harley was a good key position defender in his earlier years, got pretty much owned by every forward in his last 3 years when playing one-on-one, so they made him the space filler / 3rd man. Senior players can go off the boil so if this happens, by all means T.Hunt should be there in a key role.

Sorry, but that is absolute horseshit. And I'll give you specific games.

1. Round 11, 2007 v Adelaide in Adelaide. Mark Ricciuto had given us trouble plenty of times in the past up forward. Harley played on him and annihilated him. Outmarked him time and time again and was a key factor is us winning a tight one by 7 points.

2. Round 20, 2007 v Kangaroos at Etihad. Thrashed Corey Jones to the point of embarrassment.

3. Grand Final, 2007 v Port Adelaide. My personal favourite, handed out one of the greatest Grand Final asskickings of all time to Daniel Motlop. Cannot remember a player more soundly beaten when it mattered on the big stage.

All those games fall within the 3 year period you just described. There were others as well. Yes he had a poor game in the 2009 Grand Final but it doesn't mean every other game was similar. You would need a really selective memory to think that.

 

[PatrickBateman]

Re: Mackie MUST be dropped

Sorry, but that is absolute horseshit. And I'll give you specific games.

1. Round 11, 2007 v Adelaide in Adelaide. Mark Ricciuto had given us trouble plenty of times in the past up forward. Harley played on him and annihilated him. Outmarked him time and time again and was a key factor is us winning a tight one by 7 points.

2. Round 20, 2007 v Kangaroos at Etihad. Thrashed Corey Jones to the point of embarrassment.

3. Grand Final, 2007 v Port Adelaide. My personal favourite, handed out one of the greatest Grand Final asskickings of all time to Daniel Motlop. Cannot remember a player more soundly beaten when it mattered on the big stage.

All those games fall within the 3 year period you just described. There were others as well. Yes he had a poor game in the 2009 Grand Final but it doesn't mean every other game was similar. You would need a really selective memory to think that.

While I don't have the time to dig out all the games where Harley had his ar$e handed to him, I distinctively recall Brad Johnson kicking 8 on him and Riewoldt consistently beating him to the point where he had to be taken off. His form in '09 was pathetic. Benched numerous times for hardly being able to compete on any level whatsoever. I'm not denieing his value as a leader off the field... on the field he was finished after '08. Well and truly.

If you're going to get specific then yeah, he obviously would have won the odd contest... he rarely played key positions for those 3 years for an entire game though. In 2006 Harley was down right embarrassing. And he beat a couple of hacks(Motlop / Jones) and a beat up champion player at the VERY end of his career in Ricciuto... when the whole team was up and whipping everyone('07). Will never be remembered as a great key defender... was never his forte. One of the best 3rd to a contest players seen for a while though.

The point being, senior players shouldn't stay in the side if not performing... only then should they be dropped. Mackie's resilience is almost unbelievable if you ask me. Hasn't been any good since '09.

 

[Cattery]

Re: Mackie MUST be dropped

Sorry, but that is absolute horseshit. And I'll give you specific games.

1. Round 11, 2007 v Adelaide in Adelaide. Mark Ricciuto had given us trouble plenty of times in the past up forward. Harley played on him and annihilated him. Outmarked him time and time again and was a key factor is us winning a tight one by 7 points.

2. Round 20, 2007 v Kangaroos at Etihad. Thrashed Corey Jones to the point of embarrassment.

3. Grand Final, 2007 v Port Adelaide. My personal favourite, handed out one of the greatest Grand Final asskickings of all time to Daniel Motlop. Cannot remember a player more soundly beaten when it mattered on the big stage.

All those games fall within the 3 year period you just described. There were others as well. Yes he had a poor game in the 2009 Grand Final but it doesn't mean every other game was similar. You would need a really selective memory to think that.

Heck mate, why bother picking just three games, the reality is that Harley had arguably his best seasons in 07 and 08, played the third man at a contest to perfection while still flogging most of his opponents as well.

 

[Partridge]

Re: Mackie MUST be dropped

Heck mate, why bother picking just three games, the reality is that Harley had arguably his best seasons in 07 and 08, played the third man at a contest to perfection while still flogging most of his opponents as well.

Don't disagree, they were three games that came immediately to mind. I remember his second half of 2007 particularly as almost career-best form.

The point being, senior players shouldn't stay in the side if not performing... only then should they be dropped. Mackie's resilience is almost unbelievable if you ask me. Hasn't been any good since '09.

Agree with that entirely. Once everyone is fit there are going to be some very interesting battles for selection.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Re: Mackie MUST be dropped

That's fine, we'll have to agree to disagree. I really was talking finals too with regards to him taking the best small forward opponents one-on-one in high pressure games. You never know. Tom Harley was a good key position defender in his earlier years, got pretty much owned by every forward in his last 3 years when playing one-on-one, so they made him the space filler / 3rd man. Senior players can go off the boil so if this happens, by all means T.Hunt should be there in a key role.

No worries, fair point.

In regards to finals we can't really know at this point because young Hunt, like a lot of our young players, hasn't played in them yet. The coaches may well feel at that time that the job ought to be given to someone more experienced. But right now at least, they're giving him more defensive roles so they obviously want to see whether he can handle them. Whether that's with an eye on now or the more medium term, only they know (it's probably a bit of both).

 

[Vdubs]

Re: Mackie MUST be dropped

Heck mate, why bother picking just three games, the reality is that Harley had arguably his best seasons in 07 and 08, played the third man at a contest to perfection while still flogging most of his opponents as well.

Having seen the 08 GF too many times, I'm nearly convinced that Harley going down with concussion was the final straw for our chances, he was critical in defence, and Scarlett/Taylor had to alter their modus operandi and we really missed Scarlett's run out of defence. IMO, Harley going down was as critical as Stokes "playing". And that was in a GF in 08, our most important game of the year.

 

[ciaobella]

Re: Mackie MUST be dropped

I'm a bit puzzled by this article in today's HS.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/andrew-mackie-and-the-knife/story-fn8libdt-1226064507953

Is Jon Anderson trying to imply that he is back to his best

The guy is far from his best. We all know what he is capable of and he is far from it at the moment. Hope for the club's sake he gets his mojo back but in the meantime I think there's some other players who deserve a spot before him.