List Mgmt. Are we building a side to challenge for a flag?

[M Malice]

kudos to you scoman a post that was both overly positive and negative in the one go.

 

[Keays2myBeamas]

really starting to like the look of our youth going forward, all these players 24 or under. finally good times might be coming.

B. D.Gardner S.Skinner H.Andrews

HB. A.Witherden D.McStay T.Cutler

C. N.Robertson B.Keays J.Berry

HF. L.Taylor E.Hipwood C.Cox

F. M.Close J.Schache R.William

R. A.Smith H.McCluggage R.Matheison

Replace Close from that starting 18 and you've got an entirely under 21 side let alone under 24. I can finally see a team starting to take shape now, but they're babies.

 

[Fatcat08]

People should go back and read the post 2008 draft opinions and early 2009 season posts to see the issue with these sorts of things.

 

[Panthera]

People should go back and read the post 2008 draft opinions and early 2009 season posts to see the issue with these sorts of things.

That was an unusually weak draft though; probably 1 A-Grader in the whole bloody thing in Naitanui

We did OK with Rich / Redden.

A lot of Top 30 are either B or C graders at their very best

 

[Gibbo_88]

That was an unusually weak draft though; probably 1 A-Grader in the whole bloody thing in Naitanui

We did OK with Rich / Redden.

A lot of Top 30 are either B or C graders at their very best

Are you getting it mixed up with with the 2009 draft which was a bit meh? 2008 was a really good draft for a lot of clubs.

I guess it depends on what you define as a B or C grader but guys like Hannebury, Robinson & Sloane were taken outside the top 30.

 

[Keays2myBeamas]

People should go back and read the post 2008 draft opinions and early 2009 season posts to see the issue with these sorts of things.

Wasn't there a certain trade strategy that quelled a lot of those plans, no?

 

[Fatcat08]

Wasn't there a certain trade strategy that quelled a lot of those plans, no?

My point was more around draft picks perhaps not developing into everything we'd hope them to be. Worth keeping in mind when projecting the contribution of players who haven't played an afl game yet

 

[Panthera]

Are you getting it mixed up with with the 2009 draft which was a bit meh? 2008 was a really good draft for a lot of clubs.

I guess it depends on what you define as a B or C grader but guys like Hannebury, Robinson & Sloane were taken outside the top 30.

No, meant 2008...there will be always guns taken later but the top end was average at very best:

1 1 Jack Watts Sandringham Dragons TAC Cup Melbourne
1 2 Nic Naitanui Swan Districts WAFL West Coast
1 3 Stephen Hill West Perth WAFL Fremantle
1 4 Hamish Hartlett West Adelaide SANFL Port Adelaide
1 5 Michael Hurley Northern Knights TAC Cup Essendon
1 6 Chris Yarran Swan Districts WAFL Carlton
1 7 Daniel Rich Subiaco WAFL Brisbane Lions
1 8 Ty Vickery Sandringham Dragons TAC Cup Richmond
1 9 Jack Ziebell Murray Bushrangers TAC Cup North Melbourne
1 10 Phil Davis North Adelaide SANFL Adelaide
1 11 Steele Sidebottom Murray Bushrangers TAC Cup Collingwood
1 12 Lewis Johnston North Adelaide SANFL Sydney
1 13 Tom Lynch Sandringham Dragons TAC Cup St Kilda
1 14 (F/S) Ayce Cordy Geelong Falcons TAC Cup Western Bulldogs
1 15 Mitchell Brown Sandringham Dragons TAC Cup Geelong
1 16 Ryan Schoenmakers Norwood SANFL Hawthorn
Priority 17 Sam Blease Eastern Ranges TAC Cup Melbourne
Priority 18 Luke Shuey Oakleigh Chargers TAC Cup West Coast
2 19 James Strauss Oakleigh Chargers TAC Cup Melbourne
2 20 Tom Swift Claremont WAFL West Coast

 

[Gibbo_88]

No, meant 2008...there will be always guns taken later but the top end was average at very best:

1 1 Jack Watts Sandringham Dragons TAC Cup Melbourne
1 2 Nic Naitanui Swan Districts WAFL West Coast
1 3 Stephen Hill West Perth WAFL Fremantle
1 4 Hamish Hartlett West Adelaide SANFL Port Adelaide
1 5 Michael Hurley Northern Knights TAC Cup Essendon
1 6 Chris Yarran Swan Districts WAFL Carlton
1 7 Daniel Rich Subiaco WAFL Brisbane Lions
1 8 Ty Vickery Sandringham Dragons TAC Cup Richmond
1 9 Jack Ziebell Murray Bushrangers TAC Cup North Melbourne
1 10 Phil Davis North Adelaide SANFL Adelaide
1 11 Steele Sidebottom Murray Bushrangers TAC Cup Collingwood
1 12 Lewis Johnston North Adelaide SANFL Sydney
1 13 Tom Lynch Sandringham Dragons TAC Cup St Kilda
1 14 (F/S) Ayce Cordy Geelong Falcons TAC Cup Western Bulldogs
1 15 Mitchell Brown Sandringham Dragons TAC Cup Geelong
1 16 Ryan Schoenmakers Norwood SANFL Hawthorn
Priority 17 Sam Blease Eastern Ranges TAC Cup Melbourne
Priority 18 Luke Shuey Oakleigh Chargers TAC Cup West Coast
2 19 James Strauss Oakleigh Chargers TAC Cup Melbourne
2 20 Tom Swift Claremont WAFL West Coast

Not interested in debating this further with you but do you have figures to back this statement up or you just think this? A quick look at the average games played per season shows that it's not that different from previous drafts.

 

[Skoob]

Don't know how you can judge how good a draft class is until 4-8 years after the event.
Are we building a side that can challenge for a flag? Who the hell would know? Some will leave, some will fail. Some will stay and be very good. There's a long time to go before the answer could even be guessed.
I think we should be happy with the appearances that we are making some good moves and picking up some promising kids. Beyond that, is getting ahead of ourselves.

 

[Lace Out]

Team in the OP looks pretty week still. Will take another 2-3 drafts to get together a team that will push for a premiership in around 2022.

Will be satisfied with some chance to make finals with 5 rounds to go in 2019

 

[SizeMatters]

Need the following urgently:

• Ruckman and probably a ruck-forward as well unless we groom Hipwood as one?
• 2 small forwards that excel at defensive pressure. must have elite pace, agility and good goal sense... arguably the hardest position to play in the modern game and even harder to find someone who fits this criteria.
• Lead up forward with ability to take a strong grab and find space inside 50.
• Lock down defender with ability to nullify live-wire small forwards. Ability to rebound a massive bonus.
• An inside mid with elite ball winning abilities, and must be clean with disposal especially in tight hand balling. Needs to be a clearance specialist.
• A few midfield line breakers that can also run defensively. Must have elite kicking ability and game sense.

Still think we are at least 3 good draft crops away from having the final pieces in place. Hoping we can snag at least half of those next year.

 

[If it bleeds]

Need the following urgently:

• Ruckman and probably a ruck-forward as well unless we groom Hipwood as one?
• 2 small forwards that excel at defensive pressure. must have elite pace, agility and good goal sense... arguably the hardest position to play in the modern game and even harder to find someone who fits this criteria.
• Lead up forward with ability to take a strong grab and find space inside 50.
• Lock down defender with ability to nullify live-wire small forwards. Ability to rebound a massive bonus.
• An inside mid with elite ball winning abilities, and must be clean with disposal especially in tight hand balling. Needs to be a clearance specialist.
• A few midfield line breakers that can also run defensively. Must have elite kicking ability and game sense.

Still think we are at least 3 good draft crops away from having the final pieces in place. Hoping we can snag at least half of those next year.

I'm thinking you should start your page with Dear Santa.....

 

[SizeMatters]

I'm thinking you should start your page with Dear Santa.....

Yeah probably asking for too much hey?

 

[BuntonRules]

We are on the road to becoming relevant. Small steps.

 

[dlanod]

Yeah probably asking for too much hey?

• A pony.

 

[M Malice]

• A pony.

gold.

ELAINE: What about ponies? What kind of abnormal animal is that? And those kids who had their own ponies..

JERRY: I know, I hated those kids. In fact, I hate anyone that ever had a pony when they were growing up.

MANYA: ..I had a pony.

(The room is dead quiet)

JERRY: ..Well, I didn't really mean a pony, per se.

MANYA: (Angry) When I was a little girl in Poland, we all had ponies. My sister had pony, my cousin had pony, ..So, what's wrong with that?

JERRY: Nothing. Nothing at all. I was just merely expressting..

HELEN: Should we have coffee? Who's having coffee?

MANYA: He was a beautiful pony! And I loved him.

JERRY: Well, I'm sure you did. Who wouldn't love a pony? Who wouldn't love a person that had a pony?

MANYA: You! You said so!

JERRY: No, see, we didn't have ponies. I'm sure at the time in Poland, they were very common. They were probably like compact cars..

 

[jjami15]

I find it quite difficult to say wether we are building a side to challenge for a flag. However we are drafting some nice young talent into the club which is the AFL's model of equalisation whilst down the bottom. It will be interesting to see in the coming years wether those players are good enough whilst also taking into account the club's ability to develop them. There will be some markers along the way however and it will be games where we do win with a number of the younger players in the team, a number of Rising Star Nominations, close losses and not blowouts. It is evident that it will be the young core which will take us forward so it will be what we see from them in the next couple of years. Next years trade outs/delistings and then the draft will be just as important if not more so than the last two.

 

[Kevvo]

Need the following urgently:

• Ruckman and probably a ruck-forward as well unless we groom Hipwood as one?
• 2 small forwards that excel at defensive pressure. must have elite pace, agility and good goal sense... arguably the hardest position to play in the modern game and even harder to find someone who fits this criteria.
• Lead up forward with ability to take a strong grab and find space inside 50.
• Lock down defender with ability to nullify live-wire small forwards. Ability to rebound a massive bonus.
• An inside mid with elite ball winning abilities, and must be clean with disposal especially in tight hand balling. Needs to be a clearance specialist.
• A few midfield line breakers that can also run defensively. Must have elite kicking ability and game sense.

Still think we are at least 3 good draft crops away from having the final pieces in place. Hoping we can snag at least half of those next year.

We're miles off being able to tell whether our current draftees are up to it. That said, I'm not as worried about some of these needs as you are:

• Ruck: I'm bullish on Archie in the ruck. There's still plenty of scope for him to fail, but he's competitive (with scope to be dominant) in the taps and aggressive around the contest. That's a promising base to work from.
  
  
• Small forwards with defensive skills: you've probably got a point, but if Keays and Mathieson (plus eventually McLuggage and maybe one of Berry or Witherden) start to come on in the midfield then Zorko could shift back to the forward line for longer stretches. His defensive pressure is very good when he's up there and that's where I'd see him playing (pushed out by other mids) if we're to become a finals side.
  
  
• Lead up forward: that's actually the role that I think will suit Hipwood. He looks like he'll always be a leanish build but he can certainly take a good grab and has the athleticism and height to cause real problems for someone trying to track him on the lead.
  
  
• Lock down defender: I agree with you on this one. Despite taking three HBFs in the draft, all of them look (in the highlights I've seen) fairly attack minded. Same goes for Cutler and Mayes.
  
  
• Clearance specialist: Not sure where I sit on this. Obviously we'd love a Dangerfield type to explode away from stoppages, but I think Mathieson will be effective if not spectacular in this role. His hands are (IMO) very clean in close. His kicking is sometimes a little wayward but it's not terrible. Sure, we could probably upgrade on Mathieson, but I don't think there is a great void at that spot.
  
  
• Line breakers: It's too early to say yet, but between McCluggage and Cox I reckon we're a decent shot of already having added this.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's still way too early to be sure of the position we're in (lot of 'ifs' above). I also agree that there are a couple of position specific needs we'd want to address soon. But, if we can improve our development coaching to draw more predictable gains out of our good young prospects, I think the list looks reasonably well balanced.

 

[Dalions]

• Small forwards with defensive skills: you've probably got a point, but if Keays and Mathieson (plus eventually McLuggage and maybe one of Berry or Witherden) start to come on in the midfield then Zorko could shift back to the forward line for longer stretches. His defensive pressure is very good when he's up there and that's where I'd see him playing (pushed out by other mids) if we're to become a finals side.

• Love the idea of The Magician spending more time in the forward line.
• If we can have more running through the middle of the ground then he is the best option as a small goal kicking forward with defensive pressure. That is what he did best in his first year with the lions.

 

[WhiteLionFeva]

Presumably we nominated Rolls (small defender) and Dennis (ruck) for a reason. I see Lyons as playing a defensive small forward role much like Luke Power in his early years.

 

[DreadBat5701894]

Maybe

 

[kylegee28]

Believe.

 

[dlanod]

Finally feel like I can vote yes

 

[McIvor]

I don’t see why we wouldn't be going for like 7 in a row