Win Prizes Ask an Atheist II

[Gethelred]

Welcome to the Ask an Atheist thread II.

Previous part:

Win Prizes - Ask an Atheist - Shoe's on the other foot now!

Alright, we're going to have a change of tack. As I'm sure you can see, the thread title has been changed to Ask an Atheist. People who have a question to ask of the atheists who populate this thread - more than the christians do - should feel free to ask questions of them. If you've still got...

www.bigfooty.com

Standard board rules apply.

 

[Total Power]

More likely they're just neuro divergent.

Anything can become a religion in terms of one's absolute devotion to a belief system without critical thought. The current state of polarized politics is a good example of how this transcends typical theistic religion.

 

[Vdubs]

According to the OT. Now OT is not a book of YWH? or NT? if it isn't then what are we discussing here?



So people who ditch Christianity and live happily don't count? my unbelief doesn't count? You don't seem to be interested how my life and hundreds and thousands that i know turned their life around after ditching religion. Muslims Hindus, Buddhists living happily don't count? only those YOU THINK matters, matter? what i am saying is your stance is called the selection bias.

FFS mate.

You have away of wording things...but that is a good point.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

Why'd God make sin and hell in the first place? Remember we are born sinful cause of the curse he gave mankind. Imagine everyone is damned cause of the sin of one person, but all will be ok if you believe in this individual with temper tantrums. None of it makes sense if you think about it.

Ah, but it makes sense as a behavioural modifier. This is how I remember it from my catholic upbringing;

1. God makes Adam from dust.
2 God makes Eve from one of Adam's spare ribs
3 God lets Adam and Eve live in the Garden of Eden.
4 Eve comes across a Snake one day who talks her into eating an apple from the Tree of Knowledge, which God told them never to touch. Before this Adam and Eve lived in blissful ignorance of everything
5 Eve shares an apple with Adam. They now have awareness. They're naked!
6 God says this is the Original Sin and throws the pair of them out of the Garden. Every human that came after this point is stained by this Original sin
7 The only way to 'erase' Original Sin is by joining the club. Baptism! Then staying in the club. Church!
8. Realise one thing. Join the club or be damned!

It makes sense as a Control narrative. As a non-believer though it's a crock of shit

 

[Total Power]

You have away of wording things...but that is a good point.

I go by the books mate, same issue with Muslims when i confront them and then they ask me 'how would you know what god wants' and then i point to the Quran and then the verbal gymnastics start.

 

[western royboy]

Ah, but it makes sense as a behavioural modifier. This is how I remember it from my catholic upbringing;

1. God makes Adam from dust.
2 God makes Eve from one of Adam's spare ribs
3 God lets Adam and Eve live in the Garden of Eden.
4 Eve comes across a Snake one day who talks her into eating an apple from the Tree of Knowledge, which God told them never to touch. Before this Adam and Eve lived in blissful ignorance of everything
5 Eve shares an apple with Adam. They now have awareness. They're naked!
6 God says this is the Original Sin and throws the pair of them out of the Garden. Every human that came after this point is stained by this Original sin
7 The only way to 'erase' Original Sin is by joining the club. Baptism! Then staying in the club. Church!
8. Realise one thing. Join the club or be damned!

It makes sense as a Control narrative. As a non-believer though it's a crock of shit

I believe Dave Allen has a “bit” of a similar nature

George Carlin added “but he needs money”

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

AS IF you would have a clue about anyone's intellect through these posts.

Well actually you have displayed a pretty consistent resistance to rational thought and reason here over quite a long period of time.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

As if you know what God is doing elsewhere, you poor pitiful isolated human being...

Link?

 

[Vdubs]

Ah, but it makes sense as a behavioural modifier. This is how I remember it from my catholic upbringing;

1. God makes Adam from dust.
2 God makes Eve from one of Adam's spare ribs
3 God lets Adam and Eve live in the Garden of Eden.
4 Eve comes across a Snake one day who talks her into eating an apple from the Tree of Knowledge, which God told them never to touch. Before this Adam and Eve lived in blissful ignorance of everything
5 Eve shares an apple with Adam. They now have awareness. They're naked!
6 God says this is the Original Sin and throws the pair of them out of the Garden. Every human that came after this point is stained by this Original sin
7 The only way to 'erase' Original Sin is by joining the club. Baptism! Then staying in the club. Church!
8. Realise one thing. Join the club or be damned!

It makes sense as a Control narrative. As a non-believer though it's a crock of shit

yes, I too was once a mick- there were some harsh realities growing up that way. It nearly made me an unbeliever

Well actually you have displayed a pretty consistent resistance to rational thought and reason here over quite a long period of time.

The fact that we continue to read your rational posts shows the reverse.

 

[Boston tiger]

Ah, but it makes sense as a behavioural modifier. This is how I remember it from my catholic upbringing;

1. God makes Adam from dust.
2 God makes Eve from one of Adam's spare ribs
3 God lets Adam and Eve live in the Garden of Eden.
4 Eve comes across a Snake one day who talks her into eating an apple from the Tree of Knowledge, which God told them never to touch. Before this Adam and Eve lived in blissful ignorance of everything
5 Eve shares an apple with Adam. They now have awareness. They're naked!
6 God says this is the Original Sin and throws the pair of them out of the Garden. Every human that came after this point is stained by this Original sin
7 The only way to 'erase' Original Sin is by joining the club. Baptism! Then staying in the club. Church!
8. Realise one thing. Join the club or be damned!

It makes sense as a Control narrative. As a non-believer though it's a crock of shit

You get some grace as well. Not sure if you can give it back .. so you might be stuck with it . Never mind

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

You get some grace as well. Not sure if you can give it back .. so you might be stuck with it . Never mind

Yeah, I got me a baptism. I don't know if walking away from faith would make it worse in the eyes of the religious - I know apostasy isn't looked on kindly in Islam (fundamentalists punish it by death) but yeah.

A modicum of grace!

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

I mean once Eve clearly slept with her sons the bible goes downhill

Welcome Kingy, your presence here will be greatly appreciated.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

The fact that we continue to read your rational posts shows the reverse.

Like all non-believers I am driven by doubt.

Doubt brings the possibility of enlightenment and understanding.

You have never given the slightest indication you entertain doubt in the same way.

 

[Total Power]

You get some grace as well. Not sure if you can give it back .. so you might be stuck with it . Never mind

Grace for what exactly? We all get cursed for the temper tantrums of this individual cause one person didn't obey him and his omnipotence meant he didn't know any of it will happen? what i need to be 'graceful' about? being sent to hell for not being a part of the boys club? or the suffering on earth leads to the pie in the sky when we die?

The reason I hate it: the first and greatest sin is knowledge. They eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil and their eyes are opened so that they rise above the animals. This is why in your book it says 'Do not use your intellect, obey the Lord'.

If this is what you are 'graceful' about so be it, don't complain when others use their braincells though.

 

[Total Power]

The fact that we continue to read your rational posts shows the reverse.

It doesn't seem to work, just like my cousin you seem to be science and logic resistant.

 

[Vdubs]

Like all non-believers I am driven by doubt.

Doubt brings the possibility of enlightenment and understanding.

You have never given the slightest indication you entertain doubt in the same way.

Been there and done that.

Of course there's doubt, but eerily, talking with you lot convinces me of the validity of my faith.

 

[Roylion]

talking with you lot convinces me of the validity of my faith.

Upon what basis?

 

[Vdubs]

Upon what basis?

The doubts, the questions, we ALL have them, impossible not to. But I just do not struggle with the inaccuracies and inconsistencies in the Bible, and the concept of a Creator of all shaped by evolution. We know it was written by men, but I believe God wants us to have some (limited) knowledge of Him, and given the complexity of the evolving human brain, there are still plenty of people coming to faith today. That it it is simply not impossible, gives me impetus for faith.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

The doubts, the questions, we ALL have them, impossible not to. But I just do not struggle with the inaccuracies and inconsistencies in the Bible, and the concept of a Creator of all shaped by evolution. We know it was written by men, but I believe God wants us to have some (limited) knowledge of Him, and given the complexity of the evolving human brain, there are still plenty of people coming to faith today. That it it is simply not impossible, gives me impetus for faith.

Why would anyone need faith? All other things being equal, putting any emphasis on faith would tend to suggest a pretty miserable view of life as it is now.

I love life. Every day I am filled with awe at the complexity and beauty of nature. After many decades on earth I’m still awestruck by nature.

But I’m supposed to think this existence is miserable and I need faith that there’s something better? Only if I’ve pre-digested a narrative.

 

[Roylion]

The doubts, the questions, we ALL have them, impossible not to.

Yeah...but how does "talking with you lot convinces me of the validity of my faith.?

But I just do not struggle with the inaccuracies and inconsistencies in the Bible, and the concept of a Creator of all shaped by evolution. We know it was written by men, but I believe God wants us to have some (limited) knowledge of Him,

How do you know this is actually what "God" wants?

there are still plenty of people coming to faith today.

Yet there appears to be a decline of Christianity in the western world, particularly in Europe, North America and Australia and New Zealand. And while globally the number of Christians is growing (it lags behind Islam), the rate of growth is slower than the overall population growth over the same time period.

That it it is simply not impossible, gives me impetus for faith.

What is "simply not impossible"?

 

[Vdubs]

Why would anyone need faith? All other things being equal, putting any emphasis on faith would tend to suggest a pretty miserable view of life as it is now.

I love life. Every day I am filled with awe at the complexity and beauty of nature. After many decades on earth I’m still awestruck by nature.

But I’m supposed to think this existence is miserable and I need faith that there’s something better? Only if I’ve pre-digested a narrative.

That's not how I see life. I lead a very busy fulfilled life with appreciation of work ethic, family, friends, and love exercise, nature, and appreciate every day as if it is God given. I have seen too often in my career people dying young and randomly, and it helps appreciation of each day.
Running marathons helped me find God and communicate with Him.
Achievement in career and running events etc seemed shallow.
The beauty was already around me, and I did not need faith, but somehow, always found myself attracted to people who had a bold and strong faith.
Many people find shallowness and the need for something bigger than what they achieve when they win a GF, or reach the pinnacle of their. career pathway etc. That's not to say their lives are miserable; rather, they find that the trimmings of this life are superficial.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

That's not how I see life. I lead a very busy fulfilled life with appreciation of work ethic, family, friends, and love exercise, nature, and appreciate every day as if it is God given. I have seen too often in my career people dying young and randomly, and it helps appreciation of each day.
Running marathons helped me find God and communicate with Him.
Achievement in career and running events etc seemed shallow.
The beauty was already around me, and I did not need faith, but somehow, always found myself attracted to people who had a bold and strong faith.
Many people find shallowness and the need for something bigger than what they achieve when they win a GF, or reach the pinnacle of their. career pathway etc. That's not to say their lives are miserable; rather, they find that the trimmings of this life are superficial.

None of that is an argument for the existence of god. Take out all the references to god and you’re describing a life pretty much like mine.

 

[Total Power]

Running marathons helped me find God and communicate with Him.

**** me...talk about seeing things when there's none. That's Christianity for you. Christianity is set up in a way so that god is never in the wrong and that he is infallible.

Was talking to one of my Christian friends and he went like "God spared my child' That sounds like Christians indirectly admitting that God is an evil bastard. There are literally thousands of children dying in Gaza every week, all due to your sky fairy and here you are appreciating how good your life is cause of God. Seriously?? God has given you the privileged but takes away the privileged of those who are born (due to no fault of their own) in the conflict zone???

The sense of entitlement in your post is amazing but not amusing.

STRAIGHT BAT play mate: if one must credit a deity when things go right, i reckon it makes a lot of sense to also blame said deity when things go wrong, which you or none of the religiously indoctrinated people are willing to do.

 

[Total Power]

The doubts, the questions, we ALL have them, impossible not to. But I just do not struggle with the inaccuracies and inconsistencies in the Bible, and the concept of a Creator of all shaped by evolution. We know it was written by men, but I believe God wants us to have some (limited) knowledge of Him, and given the complexity of the evolving human brain, there are still plenty of people coming to faith today. That it it is simply not impossible, gives me impetus for faith.

I do not believe you have doubts, you trust with your eyes and ears closed. Otherwise how on earth could you not question the immorality in the Bible and sweep in under the carpet? how could you not trust what we already know which has disproven what's written in the Bible? Jesus said he has descended from Adam in very clear words and given his genealogy. Cause NT authors believed Adam was a real person. With a skeptic mind, I doubt anyone can even get past Genesis and still thinks it's a holy book.

reread John 17:20-23 :
In this verse Jesus banks his entire reputation on the unity of the church.

How many denominations are there? All of them think they are right?

Evangelicals think Catholics are paganistic satan worshippers because you “worship Mary”. Of course many Catholics think evangelicals suck just as bad.

Then the Irish conflict, Protestant and Catholics and hundreds and thousands of years of intersect conflicts in Eastern Europe.

And here is Jesus saying “their unity proves I am right.”

Oops.

Another one gone wrong. God...plz m8

 

[Vdubs]

**** me...talk about seeing things when there's none. That's Christianity for you. Christianity is set up in a way so that god is never in the wrong and that he is infallible.

Was talking to one of my Christian friends and he went like "God spared my child' That sounds like Christians indirectly admitting that God is an evil bastard. There are literally thousands of children dying in Gaza every week, all due to your sky fairy and here you are appreciating how good your life is cause of God. Seriously?? God has given you the privileged but takes away the privileged of those who are born (due to no fault of their own) in the conflict zone???

The sense of entitlement in your post is amazing but not amusing.

STRAIGHT BAT play mate: if one must credit a deity when things go right, i reckon it makes a lot of sense to also blame said deity when things go wrong, which you or none of the religiously indoctrinated people are willing to do.

Wrong.
Marvelling at Creation is one thing.
Acknowledging sin in this world and its effects is another.
And accepting we all have free will is another.
And if there is no God, you explain the reasons and causes of atrocities we have seen and continue to see- you can't blame God here.
God is never wrong and God is infallible, by definition. You can argue that until you are blue in the face, but acknowledging God is God, which you do when blaming Him for what you detest, but not for His Creation is typical of your arguments.
I humbly say God is always correct. It's how you interpret what happens in life, what's written in the Bible that is error-seeking at best.

 

[Total Power]

Wrong.
Marvelling at Creation is one thing.
Acknowledging sin in this world and its effects is another.
And accepting we all have free will is another.
And if there is no God, you explain the reasons and causes of atrocities we have seen and continue to see- you can't blame God here.

Why not? sin is a result of the curse of God. You don't agree with the Bible? sinners sinning cause your God was angry cause one naked man ate a fruit from the tree of knowledge.

Your god wants obedience, not knowledge, which is what your Bible states, DO NOT USE YOUR INELLECT.

Now why do you wish to live like a slave?

I can't think of a reason i would want to, but if that's your choice so be it.

None of this violence in Israel/Gaza would happen if it wasn't for religion. Another feather in your God's cap.

God is never wrong and God is infallible, by definition.

Really? so all the atrocities in the OT are all justified?
Psalm: 137:9
Yes, a reward to the one who grabs your babies and smashes their heads on the rocks

Just one tiny example OUT OF MILLIONS. You think this has been written by a divine?


You thank god for your stupid shit but that Christian in Gaza who is a 5 year old is getting steamrolled by YWH's people but you see nothing wrong with it? None of this will happen if the OT was never written, it's God's promised land remember? You can say ITS HUMANS, but it's clearly not. Israel believes they are God's chosen people and the entire area is their land.

God is NOT infallible, he regretted creating us and drowned almost everyone of us.

Regret and Infallible doesn't go together.

You can argue that until you are blue in the face, but acknowledging God is God, which you do when blaming Him for what you detest, but not for His Creation is typical of your arguments.
I humbly say God is always correct. It's how you interpret what happens in life, what's written in the Bible that is error-seeking at best.

Rubbish, another special pleading argument while no presenting no case at all.

Going by life, Bible and everything that's going on, there's no evidence that God is infallible, repeating a lie 100 times doesn't make it true. Read the Genesis, God wanted someone to screw his brothers wife...he refused and god cursed him. You really believe that's holy and divine? it takes special kind of an idiot to believe this, literal or metaphorical.

You keep repeating these lines without making an argument for your case (which is why you have faith, which means belief without evidence), which is precisely why Christianity is basically walking on eggshells and one of the reasons why i lost my faith.