Mid East Israel declare war after Hamas attack II

[Gethelred]

Part I:

Mid East - Israel declare war after Hamas attack.

Breaking the law. 'International humanitarian law prohibits a siege of Gaza, UN human rights commissioner says From CNN's Eve Brennan Ravina Shamdasani speaks at the Palais des Nations in Geneva, Switzerland, on September 7, 2018. Ravina Shamdasani speaks at the Palais des Nations in...

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Thread Rules:

Alright.

I recognise that this is a fraught topic for any number of you posting here. Some of you will have family in Israel or Palestine. Some of you will have connections to either side of the conflict. What you need to understand is that this site has rules governing posting standards and the appropriate way to talk to other posters, and you will abide by them.

How this interacts with this thread is that the following will result in your post being deleted, with a recurrence of the same behaviour resulting in (depending on severity) a threadban for a week and a day off:

• direct labelling of someone as anti-semitic or a terrorist sympathiser for posting that is merely critical of Israel's response over time. I appreciate that Israel has the right to defend themselves from violence, but that does not mean that Israel has carte blanche to attack disproportionately towards people under their care.
• deliberate goading or flippant responses, designed to get people reacting to your posting emotionally.
• abuse.
• attempts to turn this into a Left vs Right shitfight.
• If I see the word 'Nazi' in here, you had better be able to justify it in the post you're making and the comparison had better be apt. Godwin's law is in full effect for the purposes of this thread; if you refer to Nazis, you've lost whatever argument you're involved in.
• Any defense of Hamas' actions on the basis of justification. There's no justification for genocide, regardless of whether or not they have the power to do so.

Please recognise that this is a difficult time for all involved, and some level of sensitivity is absolutely required to permit discussion to flow. From time to time, mods will reach out to specific posters and do some welfare checks; we may even give posters who get a bit too involved some days off to give people some time to cool down. This is not a reflection on you as a poster, merely that this is an intense subject.

I get that this is a fairly intense topic about which opinion can diverge rather significantly. If you feel you cannot be respectful in your disagreement with another poster, it is frequently better to refuse to engage than it is to take up the call.

From this point, any poster who finds themselves directly insulting another poster will find themselves receiving a threadban and an infraction, with each subsequent reoccurance resulting in steadily more points added to your account.

If you accumulate enough points in a 12 month period you will lose privileges:

5 points - 1 week off.
10 points - 2 weeks off
15 points - 3 weeks off
20 points - Account banned.

It has also become apparent that this needs to be said: just because someone moderates a part of this forum that isn't on Int Pol or the SRP does not hold them to a different standard of posting than anyone else. All of us were posters first, and we are allowed to hold opinions on this and share them on this forum.

Treat each other with the respect each of you deserve.

Thanks all.

Play nicely, all.

 

[faible]

I did specify Gaza. It's not surprising you deliberately left that part out of the quote. Hamas are not the governing power in West Bank so it doesn't concern them. For the record, settlers need to be charged crimes against humanity and put away for life. That is a separate issue to Gaza though. There was absolutely zero cases of alleged settler terrorism in Gaza in the leadup to the Oct 7 terrorist attack, even you will agree that as a fact.

You keep trying to do this thing where you compartmentalise everything as it suits the pro-Israel narrative to do so.

 

[Saint]

I did specify Gaza. It's not surprising you deliberately left that part out of the quote. Hamas are not the governing power in West Bank so it doesn't concern them. For the record, settlers need to be charged crimes against humanity and put away for life. That is a separate issue to Gaza though. There was absolutely zero cases of alleged settler terrorism in Gaza in the leadup to the Oct 7 terrorist attack, even you will agree that as a fact.

Ohhhhh, I seeee, You think terrorism by Israel on Palestinians in the West Bank doesn't matter at all to Palestinians in Gaza.

As if Hamas aren't trying to take over leadership in the West Bank, and that showing opposition to the oppression and terrorism by Israel in the West Bank wouldn't be the obvious way to do this.

It's such a narrow view of things.

It's like if you just laser-focus on Oct 7th and pretend nothing else has ever happened before or since, then your point stands. But if you take even a slightly wider focus to the months before, or the people just over there, it makes Israel look too bad, so we should just ignore it as irrelevant?

 

[Saint]

Our tax dollars also go to aid in Gaza and usually into the hands of Hamas. Anyone who is genuine in wanting the war to stop and protection for innocent civilians in Gaza should be protesting against the actions of both the IDF and Iran/Hamas.

I wonder why we have to provide humanitarian aid to Gaza. I'd be happy for that to end, if Israel and Hamas stopped the occupation and terrorism.

Demanding Hamas stop, but not Israel is not realistic, it's just funding genocide.

I agree neither side is defensible. But only one is killing thousands of people right now, so protesting for them to stop is important right now.

 

[Trouto]

Ohhhhh, I seeee, You think terrorism by Israel on Palestinians in the West Bank doesn't matter at all to Palestinians in Gaza.

As if Hamas aren't trying to take over leadership in the West Bank, and that showing opposition to the oppression and terrorism by Israel in the West Bank wouldn't be the obvious way to do this.

It's such a narrow view of things.

It's like if you just laser-focus on Oct 7th and pretend nothing else has ever happened before or since, then your point stands. But if you take even a slightly wider focus to the months before, or the people just over there, it makes Israel look too bad, so we should just ignore it as irrelevant?

Zionist apologists always think everything started on October 7 2023



Except when they talk about the "real" owners of the land, then its 1000's of years ago

 

[Zidane98]

Ohhhhh, I seeee, You think terrorism by Israel on Palestinians in the West Bank doesn't matter at all to Palestinians in Gaza.

As if Hamas aren't trying to take over leadership in the West Bank, and that showing opposition to the oppression and terrorism by Israel in the West Bank wouldn't be the obvious way to do this.

It's such a narrow view of things.

It's like if you just laser-focus on Oct 7th and pretend nothing else has ever happened before or since, then your point stands. But if you take even a slightly wider focus to the months before, or the people just over there, it makes Israel look too bad, so we should just ignore it as irrelevant?

You keep doing the dishonest strawman argument thing when you can't formulate a legitimate response to a discussion.

At no stage did I say Palestinians in Gaza should not feel aggrieved about settlers in West Bank. The whole world should be, not just Palestinians.


Let's also put aside that you deliberately ignored the fact I just stated settlers should be charged with crimes against humanity & jailed.

You know this. All I'have stated is this is not the responsibility of Hamas to mediate. It's down to the PA to sort it out and their allies. Your sentiment here appears to me that Israel had Oct 7 coming to them because settlers etc.

If you can show examples of settler terrorism in Gaza pre Oct 7 I'm all ears though.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

You keep doing the dishonest strawman argument thing when you can't formulate a legitimate response to a discussion.

At no stage did I say Palestinians in Gaza should not feel aggrieved about settlers in West Bank. The whole world should be, not just Palestinians.


Let's also put aside that you deliberately ignored the fact I just stated settlers should be charged with crimes against humanity & jailed.

You know this. All I'have stated is this is not the responsibility of Hamas to mediate. It's down to the PA to sort it out and their allies. Your sentiment here appears to me that Israel had Oct 7 coming to them because settlers etc.

If you can show examples of settler terrorism in Gaza pre Oct 7 I'm all ears though.

What are your thoughts on the whole apartheid thing?

 

[Engimal v3]

The Jews are defending their land from terrorists (supposed or otherwise) is all anyone can know if they're not in the know.

I don't support anyone in this war, who do you support?

I support civilians, who Israel are the dominant force in terrorising and murdering.

 

[Not Important]

You keep doing the dishonest strawman argument thing when you can't formulate a legitimate response to a discussion.

At no stage did I say Palestinians in Gaza should not feel aggrieved about settlers in West Bank. The whole world should be, not just Palestinians.


Let's also put aside that you deliberately ignored the fact I just stated settlers should be charged with crimes against humanity & jailed.

You know this. All I'have stated is this is not the responsibility of Hamas to mediate. It's down to the PA to sort it out and their allies. Your sentiment here appears to me that Israel had Oct 7 coming to them because settlers etc.

If you can show examples of settler terrorism in Gaza pre Oct 7 I'm all ears though.

there are countless examples in the boycott thread. and mountains if you took the trouble to read gideon levy, antony loewenstein, jewish voice for peace - to mention a few. there are none so blind as those who will not see.

 

[Not Important]

these peeps are soulless douches and that includes to the rotten to the core i.d.f. while this is happening the zioinists have the temerity to hold meetings about being victims.

 

[Not Important]

this is all the terrorist zionists have, louise. perpetuating this lie.

 

[Not Important]

may their god love ‘em. if ever we need to protect free speech it's now. the zionists will do all within their power to deny it. they are so fearful of the truth

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

Funny that oppressing people for a few decades will create problems. It's such an unforeseen outcome.

Problems? Do you abrogate the Palestinians of any responsibility for the destruction they have caused for decades because of israel?

If so...the world is lost.

 

[faible]

Problems? Do you abrogate the Palestinians of any responsibility for the destruction they have caused for decades because of israel?

If so...the world is lost.

I've repeatedly called Hamas a terror organisation. So that would suggest I don't absolve them (and obviously others engaged in similar activities) of anything.

Blaming all Palestinians and holding them responsible would be a war crime. Similarly I don't hold Israeli civilians responsible for the atrocities committed by the IDF.

Interesting you specifically chose to refer to 'Palestinians' as a collective being responsible for the destruction though. No distinction between civilians? Accident?

 

[faible]

What are your thoughts on the whole apartheid thing?

Odds on a whataboutism or goalpost shifting exercise in response?

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

I wonder why we have to provide humanitarian aid to Gaza. I'd be happy for that to end, if Israel and Hamas stopped the occupation and terrorism.

Demanding Hamas stop, but not Israel is not realistic, it's just funding genocide.

I agree neither side is defensible. But only one is killing thousands of people right now, so protesting for them to stop is important right now.

They both should stop. Hamas is still firing rockets.

Its not genocide.

 

[Saint]

You keep doing the dishonest strawman argument thing when you can't formulate a legitimate response to a discussion.

At no stage did I say Palestinians in Gaza should not feel aggrieved about settlers in West Bank. The whole world should be, not just Palestinians.


Let's also put aside that you deliberately ignored the fact I just stated settlers should be charged with crimes against humanity & jailed.

You know this. All I'have stated is this is not the responsibility of Hamas to mediate. It's down to the PA to sort it out and their allies. Your sentiment here appears to me that Israel had Oct 7 coming to them because settlers etc.

If you can show examples of settler terrorism in Gaza pre Oct 7 I'm all ears though.

Who do you think should jail the Israeli terrorists? The same people bombing civilians because of terrorists? The PA and its allies are supposed to sort out Israeli terrorists in the West Bank? You think Israel would let the PA go into Settler areas and arrest the terrorists? What planet are you on?

Problems? Do you abrogate the Palestinians of any responsibility for the destruction they have caused for decades because of israel?

If so...the world is lost.

Well, for 20 years the West Bank has been largely subdued and what have they got for it? 500,000 Israeli terrorists moved in illegally.

Israel meet every peaceful move with ethnic cleansing. They meet every violent move with ethnic cleansing. Seems to me that Israel only know one way - ethnic cleansing. If I were the PA/Hamas, I wouldn't have stooped to Israel's level, but I can understand why they have!

 

[Saint]

They both should stop. Hamas is still firing rockets.

Its not genocide.

Stop resisting, stop resisting!!

Warsaw Ghetto Uprising - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

I've repeatedly called Hamas a terror organisation. So that would suggest I don't absolve them (and obviously others engaged in similar activities) of anything.

Blaming all Palestinians and holding them responsible would be a war crime. Similarly I don't hold Israeli civilians responsible for the atrocities committed by the IDF.

Interesting you specifically chose to refer to 'Palestinians' as a collective being responsible for the destruction though. No distinction between civilians? Accident?

Hamas were not why the Kuwaiti's expelled them, nor Jordan or Kuwait. Wherever they have moved there has been tremendous destabilization and bloodshed, driven by whichever representative group that has lead them.

Have noted you do the same with 'israelis'. Of course there are many innocent civilians, but you have to ask yourself...why wont any other arab nation offer them asylum?

 

[madmug]

Oh, your an October 7 denier. There was a ceasefire deal fall through just yesterday because the Palestinians changed the terms from "living" hostages to "living or dead".

What is an October 7 denier?
Is that anything like a 1948 denier? Or an Gaza Apartheid denier? Or denying over 30,000 innocent women & children have been killed? Zionist apologists deny the obvious things like those.

 

[madmug]

Hamas were not why the Kuwaiti's expelled them, nor Jordan or Kuwait. Wherever they have moved there has been tremendous destabilization and bloodshed, driven by whichever representative group that has lead them.

Have noted you do the same with 'israelis'. Of course there are many innocent civilians, but you have to ask yourself...why wont any other arab nation offer them asylum?

Because the Zionists would never let them back to their own lands. Ever.
If you don't know that, you know absolutely nothing.

 

[Zidane98]

Who do you think should jail the Israeli terrorists? The same people bombing civilians because of terrorists? The PA and its allies are supposed to sort out Israeli terrorists in the West Bank? You think Israel would let the PA go into Settler areas and arrest the terrorists? What planet are you on?

Well, for 20 years the West Bank has been largely subdued and what have they got for it? 500,000 Israeli terrorists moved in illegally.

Israel meet every peaceful move with ethnic cleansing. They meet every violent move with ethnic cleansing. Seems to me that Israel only know one way - ethnic cleansing. If I were the PA/Hamas, I wouldn't have stooped to Israel's level, but I can understand why they have!

I'm not sure what your argument here is - you must be fully aware by now that I want settlers charged in international courts for crimes against humanity. Removed by force if necessary.

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

What is an October 7 denier?
Is that anything like a 1948 denier? Or an Gaza Apartheid denier? Or denying over 30,000 innocent women & children have been killed? Zionist apologists deny the obvious things like those.

30,000 women and children......source?

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

Because the Zionists would never let them back to their own lands. Ever.
If you don't know that, you know absolutely nothing.

And neither would the Palestinians if the shoe were on the other foot. Its why a 2 state solution was and is the only option for peace.

But that isn't why they were driven out of kuwait, jordan and Lebanon is it?

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

SO many of you wokesters would be a Franz

 

[madmug]

Problems? Do you abrogate the Palestinians of any responsibility for the destruction they have caused for decades because of israel?

If so...the world is lost.

I guess the French resistance were terrorists too.