Australia, a growing geopolitical lap dog and not just in the Indo Pacific.

[Episode IV]

Doesn't look like Labor is going to back away from AUKUS, although there might be some dissension in the ranks.
Given our (future) increased capability, I think there might be a shift away from lapdog, and more toward strategic partner.

Albanese poised to speak at Labor conference in defence of AUKUS

The prime minister has indicated he will take part on Friday in what is expected to be the most contentious debate on the floor of Labor's national conference — that surrounding the AUKUS security pact — as the government attempts to quell internal disquiet over the contentious deal with the US...

www.abc.net.au

 

[Carringbush2010]

Doesn't look like Labor is going to back away from AUKUS, although there might be some dissension in the ranks.
Given our (future) increased capability, I think there might be a shift away from lapdog, and more toward strategic partner.

Albanese poised to speak at Labor conference in defence of AUKUS

The prime minister has indicated he will take part on Friday in what is expected to be the most contentious debate on the floor of Labor's national conference — that surrounding the AUKUS security pact — as the government attempts to quell internal disquiet over the contentious deal with the US...

www.abc.net.au

'Lapdog', 'Strategic Partner', tomato, tomarto.

Quite simply in the end, the US is the global policeman, and all its allies are ever ready to do as instructed.

The UK itself, a top 5 ranked military power could also be labeled a 'Lapdog'.

More than certain that politically differed powers do view us as a major combative threat.

 

[Episode IV]

'Lapdog', 'Strategic Partner', tomato, tomarto.

Quite simply in the end, the US is the global policeman, and all its allies are ever ready to do as instructed.

The UK itself, a top 5 ranked military power could also be labeled a 'Lapdog'.

More than certain that politically differed powers do view us as a major combative threat.

I was thinking along the lines of the new subs giving Australia that power projection capability I was talking about. It's a major point of change in offensive capability, depending on what they're planning to arm them with.
And as it turns out, the internal dissent in Labor is coming to the fore, according to a follow-up article I read this morning (ABC).

At the behest of the USA, yes. That's still a given at this point.

 

[Rob R]

Doesn't look like Labor is going to back away from AUKUS, although there might be some dissension in the ranks.
Given our (future) increased capability, I think there might be a shift away from lapdog, and more toward strategic partner.

Albanese poised to speak at Labor conference in defence of AUKUS

The prime minister has indicated he will take part on Friday in what is expected to be the most contentious debate on the floor of Labor's national conference — that surrounding the AUKUS security pact — as the government attempts to quell internal disquiet over the contentious deal with the US...

www.abc.net.au

Disappointing that the ABC is leaving out the major donors of the labour mps and interest groups expressing concern about their leaders policy all come from the country whose aggressive behaviour triggered the need for AUKUS. Looks like some lapdogs are definitely in the room, lapdogs for Xi.

On SM-A125F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Episode IV]

Disappointing that the ABC is leaving out the major donors of the labour mps and interest groups expressing concern about their leaders policy all come from the country whose aggressive behaviour triggered the need for AUKUS. Looks like some lapdogs are definitely in the room, lapdogs for Xi.

On SM-A125F using BigFooty.com mobile app

"Labor against War"?

 

[Seeds]

I'm not sure how accurate this source is, regardless, what is troubling to me is that seemingly, we are no longer an unknown in a geopolitical sense. Mainstream media alludes as much and not just from local sources, unless you've been living on Mars.

Major world leaders have noticeably mentioned Australia in a geopolitical sense (particularly economically and somewhat militarily).

Mainstream media also alludes that we are the major power in the indo pacific region and probably have been for half a century (but obviously no longer), which is now a hot pot in territorial discussions i:e Taiwan, and other Pacific nations, in which it seems we're tit for tat with China. Both of us trying to buy off those nations with the 'security blanket'. pfft.

This source has us racked 16th in military power out of 145 nations, that doesn't exactly scream silent minnow nation not to worry about does it. It has us ranked 9 places above Germany - many would consider a world power.

If that does not give one concern then I don't know what would would.

2024 Military Strength Ranking

Ranking the nations of the world based on current available firepower.

www.globalfirepower.com

Even if this source is not reliable or accurate, there's no denying that Australia has more than one finger in the geopolitical pie. Off the top of my head........

The quad

https://www.dfat.gov.au/international-relations/regional-architecture/quad

AUKUS

AUKUS - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Taiwanese have previously asked for our 'support' (for want of a better term) should things turn sour, in so much as a one China 'reunification'.

A whole page on this.

taiwan asking australia for help - Google Search

If we're such a minnow (which it's clear we are not) then why would Taiwan seek our support?

Military support for Ukraine, and praise from Vlod.

https://www.minister.defence.gov.au/media-releases/2022-10-27/additional-support-ukraine

Even mad vlad and China are pissed off with us over the AUKUS deal, France has got their nose out of joint as well for obvious reasons.





Part of the G20

G20 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It's not like it was 50 or even 30 years ago, we definitely have a target on our back, particularly from China.

Once again, if it comes to the crunch King and country and Uncle Sam will come calling, the difference is we're a much more perceived threat then we ever have been - ever.

Personally, I'd prefer we'd be that lil minnow nation away from the rest of the worlds eyes, but now we can't escape that cos, well we ain't no lil or medium power anymore.

This gives me very high concern.

Discuss.

The world is splitting into autocratic regions and democratic regions. We are surrounded by the autocratic ones. On top the US is gradually withdrawing its military protection of trade in the Pacific that has existed since end of world war 2.

we need to stand up for our democratic values and unfortunately that means we need some military protection to do so. I would love to live in a globalised world with a global set of laws enforced by a global police force resulting in no need for national militaries. But both the left and right seem to reject globalisation which sends us into a world of dog eats dog in regards to international engagement where the strongest wins.

 

[Carringbush2010]

The world is splitting into autocratic regions and democratic regions. We are surrounded by the autocratic ones. On top the US is gradually withdrawing its military protection of trade in the Pacific that has existed since end of world war 2.

we need to stand up for our democratic values and unfortunately that means we need some military protection to do so. I would love to live in a globalised world with a global set of laws enforced by a global police force resulting in no need for national militaries. But both the left and right seem to reject globalisation which sends us into a world of dog eats dog in regards to international engagement where the strongest wins.

There are actual global / international laws and the states is the global policeman, we're one of the privates.

Let's not pretend that the autocrats are going to just waltz in and take over aus and take away our democracy and the US / western allies just idly sits by and 'meh'.

That's a very dramatic scenario you've painted there.

Not to mention, notice how the autocrats haven't just waltzed in yet, they won't bother unless we're a an immediate military threat and actually threatening.

Sure this thread does detail that we're more of a potential threat than ever before but I think you've over sensationalised it a bit.

I don't think the left reject globalisation, I think they regret it. Wanting everyone to hold hands and it hasn't worked out the way, either way has only and will only favour those that least deserve it, oligarchical autocrats and aholes who've misused capitalism, neoliberal capitalists profiteers . < why capitalism gets a bad name.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Seems we're ramping up naval defensive capability.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

We are never going to be powerful enough to be totally neutral though.

A nuclear arsenal of our own will give us armed neutrality.

 

[Zidane98]

A nuclear arsenal of our own will give us armed neutrality.

Would rather nuclear energy. Solves our carbon & energy issues in one hit.

4 nuclear baseload power stations + renewables / batteries and we are sorted energy wise for hundreds of years.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

Would rather nuclear energy. Solves our carbon & energy issues in one hit.

4 nuclear baseload power stations + renewables / batteries and we are sorted energy wise for hundreds of years.

That's an important step along the enrichment way, having a thriving nuclear energy sector. I'm for that as well.

 

[Zidane98]

That's an important step along the enrichment way, having a thriving nuclear energy sector. I'm for that as well.

Yes, will take us a good 10 years to establish a nuclear industry.



If we started now we could close down all coal fired power stations in Australia by 2039.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Bump.

Penny on the world stage has said her piece (on our behalf) in regards to the ME conflict.

Why are we given the platform to speak on the world stage? Coz, we're a lapdog / attack dog for the 'liberal democracy' side of the world.

Make no mistake, we're now a high end medium power that have Xi, Vlad and others in the ME concerned, this is not good, especially if that moron trump gets in.

If that happens we'll be even more called upon from uncle Chuck and the rest of the liberal democratic alliance.

Worrying times.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

Australia needs a nuclear detterent and a means to get us away from all security alliances and arrangements forever. Let the only future deals be ones of mercantile trade.

EDIT: Seeds pulled me up on the use of mercantilism, which is fair enough. On closer examination one sided trade at the expense of other local state actors would only make more enemies for us. Hardly useful. I still rather all our future dealings be trade ones and not as part of security alliances with obligations outside ourselves as a nation.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Australia needs a nuclear detterent and a means to get us away from all security alliances and arrangements forever. Let the only future deals be ones of mercantile trade.

That post has isolationist tones about it Sicko, we need the other liberal democracies as much as they need us.

Yeah I get that Chuck and Sam lean on us more than the others but that is not the point, we can't afford to go down the route that dumb phuq orange man wants to go down.

And we won't, be it Albo or spud head.

 

[Seeds]

Bump.

Penny on the world stage has said her piece (on our behalf) in regards to the ME conflict.

Why are we given the platform to speak on the world stage? Coz, we're a lapdog / attack dog for the 'liberal democracy' side of the world.

Make no mistake, we're now a high end medium power that have Xi, Vlad and others in the ME concerned, this is not good, especially if that moron trump gets in.

If that happens we'll be even more called upon from uncle Chuck and the rest of the liberal democratic alliance.

Worrying times.

Trump sides with putin and xi. He aint calling on liberal democracies. He will be working against them from the inside.

 

[Seeds]

Australia needs a nuclear detterent and a means to get us away from all security alliances and arrangements forever. Let the only future deals be ones of mercantile trade.

You sound more like donald trump every day. What happened? Mercantilism is insanely stupid. It would destroy us. As would building nukes. Nukes? Seriously?

 

[Carringbush2010]

Trump sides with putin and xi. He aint calling on liberal democracies. He will be working against them from the inside.

Yeah no s***

If the orange dh gets in, liberal democracy will be in an all out war against the regimes of Xi, Putin and wouldn't be surprised if Kim will look at this closely.

Now more than ever, the liberal alliance needs to tie bonds closer than ever before.

Now more than ever, Australia is an emerging military power that has because of that power has a target on its back.

Even if the dems get in, we'll still be in a mire of being that middle power that is steadfastly loyal to the liberal democratic alliance.

This is really really not good at all.

 

[Seeds]

That's an important step along the enrichment way, having a thriving nuclear energy sector. I'm for that as well.

Omg. So batteries and solar is cheaper then nuclear today and only going to get even cheaper by the time nuclear is ready and you still want nuclear power? Or are you reading too much misinformation on social media and actually believe nuclear is cheaper then a renewable+storage system?

Even ignoring the fact it fails the economic test do you not care about the catastrophic risks that will blow anything climate change throws at us out of the water if a tidal wave or terrorist attack or missile hits a nuclear plant. go watch chernobyl and see how close to a third of europe came to being wiped out. Or read about the japan tsunami and how much damage that did to local communities. The risk of a much worse outcome was very real. Or pay attention to what is happening with the management of nuclear power plants in ukraine.

The more nuclear power spreads acorss the world the more likely a cataclismic nuclear power plant disaster eventuates. Humanity has simply been lucky it hasnt already happened.

 

[Seeds]

Yeah no s***

If the orange dh gets in, liberal democracy will be in an all out war against the regimes of Xi, Putin and wouldn't be surprised if Kim will look at this closely.

Now more than ever, the liberal alliance needs to tie bonds closer than ever before.

Now more than ever, Australia is an emerging military power that has because of that power has a target on its back.

Even if the dems get in, we'll still be in a mire of being that middle power that is steadfastly loyal to the liberal democratic alliance.

This is really really not good at all.

Of course we should support the liberal democratic alliance. The alternatives are all 100 times worse.

The liberal democratic alliance will soon turn on israel. Only the upcoming us election and the views of the very illiberal trump are delaying it.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

That post has isolationist tones about it Sicko, we need the other liberal democracies as much as they need us.

Yeah I get that Chuck and Sam lean on us more than the others but that is not the point, we can't afford to go down the route that dumb phuq orange man wants to go down.

And we won't, be it Albo or spud head.

I like isolationism. We can have friends, of course. But we need not rely on anyone, nor be pulled into anybody else's bullshit.

We don't need a nuclear deterrent as a stick to beat others with, just as a shield to ensure that others cannot beat us.

I don't buy all this 'liberal democracies need to stick together' nonsense. Not while the current rules-based order is to ensure 99.9% of the earth's wealth is concentrated in 0.1% of the earth's population.

Putin sucks and Xi sucks and neither deserves stewardship of this world. But Pax Americana and its aforementioned rules-based order? They can f*ck right off too.

Ourselves alone. We need nukes.

 

[barreness]

Trump sides with putin and xi. He aint calling on liberal democracies. He will be working against them from the inside.

Lol, He kicked off the trade war with China and supplied lethal arms to Ukraine where Obama refused.

The "liberal democracies" thing is a facade. All stripes of American politicians are happy to support dictators and illiberal groups where it suits their interests

 

[barreness]

Yeah no s***

If the orange dh gets in, liberal democracy will be in an all out war against the regimes of Xi, Putin and wouldn't be surprised if Kim will look at this closely.

Now more than ever, the liberal alliance needs to tie bonds closer than ever before.

Now more than ever, Australia is an emerging military power that has because of that power has a target on its back.

Even if the dems get in, we'll still be in a mire of being that middle power that is steadfastly loyal to the liberal democratic alliance.

This is really really not good at all.

Bit of a stretch, 50k troops and no ability to project. That's two months of Russian volunteers

The F35's are a nice deterrent but a military power they do not make, I'm not counting the subs we'll never get.

A handy American vassal for whatever expedition they decide to go on next, I agree with your lapdog tag

 

[Seeds]

Lol, He kicked off the trade war with China and supplied lethal arms to Ukraine where Obama refused.

The "liberal democracies" thing is a facade. All stripes of American politicians are happy to support dictators and illiberal groups where it suits their interests

And those interests being the expansion of liberal democracies most of time. Unless you are trump or george bush (whose quest for venegence trumped all other ideals).

Trump kicked off a trade war cos he is an isolationist. Not because he isnt supportive of authoritarians.

He wants a world where china has its own area, russia has its own area and the usa has its own area and each bully and subjegate and conquer the smaller countries around them for their own gain. All ruled by kings.

A world of darkness as the benefits of trade are completely unwound. Rule of law that protects human rights and smaller nations from being conquered is ripped out? Democracies unravel at home as nationalist dictators take charge claiming they need ultimate power to protect you from foreign invaders as they rip away all your rights. And the fact some of you advocate for this world and for australia to also become isolationist and reject the rule of laws (rather than work to improve and strengthen them) shows negligent naivity at best and a want for cruelty and suffering at worst.

 

[Carringbush2010]

I like isolationism. We can have friends, of course. But we need not rely on anyone, nor be pulled into anybody else's bullshit.

We don't need a nuclear deterrent as a stick to beat others with, just as a shield to ensure that others cannot beat us.

I don't buy all this 'liberal democracies need to stick together' nonsense. Not while the current rules-based order is to ensure 99.9% of the earth's wealth is concentrated in 0.1% of the earth's population.

Putin sucks and Xi sucks and neither deserves stewardship of this world. But Pax Americana and its aforementioned rules-based order? They can f*ck right off too.

Ourselves alone. We need nukes.

I'm surprised by the naivety of your tone.

Yes the liberal alliance has been hypocritical and abhorrent, but the wish to abandon it just a big f u is a green light to the likes of Xi and Putin.

I'd say be careful what you wish for.

FTR trump is an isolationist too.