Australian Holocaust deniers in Tehran

[Dry Rot]

Who are these idiots?

Holocaust denier Toben at Iran forum

December 10, 2006 - 9:35PM

Australian Holocaust-denier Fredrick Toben and controversial socialite Michele Renouf are reportedly among guests at an Iranian conference questioning the genocide of European Jews during World War II.

Iranian president Mahmoud Ahmedinejad is expected to meet delegates to the conference Review of the Holocaust: Global Vision which begins in Tehran on Monday.

Dr Toben, who has faced court in Australia and been jailed in Germany for his comments on Jews and the Holocaust, is the founder of the Adelaide Institute and says he is looking forward to meeting the Iranian president.

"I would be disappointed if I was not to meet him, although I can't tell you any more than that," Dr Toben told Britain's Sunday Telegraph newspaper.

"It's like meeting the Queen of England, I wouldn't comment on it beforehand."

Dr Toben said Lady (Michele) Renouf was expected to be among those attending.

Lady Renouf, a former beauty queen who received her title from a brief marriage to New Zealand tycoon Sir Frank Renouf, attracted headlines when she supported historian David Irving at his trials for denying the Holocaust.

Dr Irving was sentenced to three years' jail in Austria.

"I understand she (Lady Renouf) is on a flight already. It will be her first visit to Tehran," Dr Toben said.

© 2006 AAP

http://www.smh.com.au/news/World/Holocaust-denier-Toben-at-Iran-forum/2006/12/10/1165685554191.html

 

[camsmith]

Suprised Leunig isn't over there.

 

[Moo]

Suprised Leunig isn't over there.

Why is that Cam?

Me thinks either you are waaaay behind the times or you subscribe to the do not criticise Israel school.

 

[Dont be a lemon]

I'd rather meet the Iranian President than meet the Queen. The Queen seems like a ********ing dull person. All she does is wave her hand. At least the conversation with the Iranian President might be interesting

 

[Richo83]

Suprised Leunig isn't over there.

When did Leunig ever deny the holocaust?

All he did was draw some pictures criticising the Israeli actions in Palestine, a right to comment he holds.

Now he's the next Irving.

 

[Solace]

David Irving was convicted of holocaust denial because in 1990 or so, he claimed that no jews were gassed in Auschwitz. He also said that 4 million did not die there. The official figures were 6 million dead, 4 million there.

A few years ago the authorities came out and said that there were no gassings at Auschwitz and that 1.2 million had died there. So now that is 3.2 million in total. But if you now say that 3.2 million Jews died in WW2 you go to jail in europe because the official figure is still 6.

Question God, Jesus, Democracy, George Bush, Islam, etc etc etc, but dont question the Holocaust. It is above the law and a religion unto itself.

Thought crime.

If you have nothing to hide, then you have nothing to fear from a discussion of the truth. On the contrary, you would welcome it. No reasonable, logical and scientifically orientated person would have issues with any historical event being studied to verify its facts.

They would let the facts speak for themselves.

 

[Richo83]

Maybe the discussion of the holocaust is banned because it is painful for the people who suffered and unnecessary, we all know that the holocaust happened, why try and question it.

People are allowed to talk about the holocaust, just in a respectful manner. Irving's "No Jews were gassed at Auschwitz" is hurtful because it ignores the millions of families who were forever broken by the German's cruelty, and the millions who died because Hitler's ignorance.

That's why Irving is jailed. He's simply a s*** stirrer.

 

[- PC -]

Maybe the discussion of the holocaust is banned because it is painful for the people who suffered and unnecessary, we all know that the holocaust happened, why try and question it.

Why not? 60 years have passed and we want to tip toe around it still?

People like Irving should be laughed at , but he should also be allowed to question. Yes we know the holocaust happened, but have we really found out why?

Was it racial cleansing? Was it economic cleansing? Or was it a combination of both?

 

[camsmith]

Why is that Cam?

Me thinks either you are waaaay behind the times or you subscribe to the do not criticise Israel school.

Iran seems to like the bloke and i thought they might have invited him, thats all.

When did Leunig ever deny the holocaust?

All he did was draw some pictures criticising the Israeli actions in Palestine, a right to comment he holds.

Now he's the next Irving

It was just a light hearted comment. Dont get too emotional

Remember those pictures were entered into an Iranian competition on the Holocaust and they seemed to pretty well received.

On Holocaust denial... im not too sure. I guess if we allow loonies to make films and so on about 9/11 being a huge conspiracy by the US govt then i suppose we can have loonies saying the Holocaust never happened.

 

[just maybe]

While I have no doubt the Holocaust happened, there is no harm in questioning and analysing it. It's good historical practise, it may result in a better and fuller history than the usual 'victor's history'.

 

[Moo]

Iran seems to like the bloke and i thought they might have invited him, thats all.



It was just a light hearted comment. Dont get too emotional

Remember those pictures were entered into an Iranian competition on the Holocaust and they seemed to pretty well received.

On Holocaust denial... im not too sure. I guess if we allow loonies to make films and so on about 9/11 being a huge conspiracy by the US govt then i suppose we can have loonies saying the Holocaust never happened.

He never entered the contest Cam - the Chasers did it as a joke, he was quite upset.

The cartoon in question was a very good one - anti-war, not even anti-zionist.

 

[camsmith]

Yeah i know that Moo... but the fact that his cartoon even fits in to a cartoon comp that was set up to take the piss out of the holocaust is disturbing.

 

[just maybe]

Yeah i know that Moo... but the fact that his cartoon even fits in to a cartoon comp that was set up to find one that best takes the piss out of the holocaust is disturbing.

Yes, it is disturbing that there are analogies between Israeli treatment of Palestinians and Nazi treatment of Jews, isn't it?

 

[MrMeaner]

A few years ago the authorities came out and said that there were no gassings at Auschwitz and that 1.2 million had died there. So now that is 3.2 million in total. But if you now say that 3.2 million Jews died in WW2 you go to jail in europe because the official figure is still 6.

Do you have a source for this? This is the first I've heard (outside of the ravings of denialists) of assertions that there were no gassings at Auschwitz.

There was a study conducted by someone (whose name escapes me at the moment) testing the concrete from walls of crematoria in Auschwitz for traces of Zyklon B. He concluded that there must not have been gassings as the traces of chemicals found in the concrete of delousing rooms was much higher than the crematoria. This study has been authoritatively discredited (see Deborah Lipstadt's book on her libel trial brought by David Irving, History on Trial).

 

[Roylion]

David Irving was convicted of holocaust denial because in 1990 or so, he claimed that no jews were gassed in Auschwitz. He also said that 4 million did not die there.

David Irving has since stated (2006) that he was incorrect and that millions of Jews died under the Nazis. How sincere he was is doubtful though, given that he was facing a prison sentence.

"I've changed my views. I spoke then about Auschwitz and gas chambers based on my knowledge at the time, but by 1991 when I came across the Eichmann papers, I wasn't saying that any more and I wouldn't say that now. The Nazis did murder millions of Jews...I made a mistake by saying there were no gas chambers, I am absolutely without doubt that the Holocaust took place.

The official figures were 6 million dead, 4 million there.

Whose official figures? The generally accepted figure for deaths at Auschwitz is 1.2 million.

A few years ago the authorities came out and said that there were no gassings at Auschwitz and that 1.2 million had died there.

Which authorities?

So now that is 3.2 million in total. But if you now say that 3.2 million Jews died in WW2 you go to jail in europe because the official figure is still 6.

Below is a summary of some of the figures arrived at by various historians

- Gerald Reitlinger,The Final Solution (1953): between 4,194,200 and 4,851,200
- Rudolph Rummel (American historian): 5,291,000
- Norman Davies, (British historian) Europe: A History (1998): avg. c. 5,571,300 (puts the minimum at 4,871,000 and the maximum at 6,271,500.)
- Yisrael Gutman (Jewish historian) and Robert Rozett, Encyclopedia of the Holocaust (1990): 5,596,029 to 5,860,129
- Paul Johnson (British historian): 5,800,000
- Raul Hilberg - 5.1 million
- Martin Gilbert (British historian) - 5,750,000
- Lucy S. Dawidowicz - 5,934,000
- Wolfgang Benz - between 5,300,000 and 6,200,000

- The Nuremberg indictment stated: 5,700,000 (accepted by Britannica)

The median figure of most historians' estimates is 5.6 million.

If you have nothing to hide, then you have nothing to fear from a discussion of the truth. On the contrary, you would welcome it. No reasonable, logical and scientifically orientated person would have issues with any historical event being studied to verify its facts.

They would let the facts speak for themselves.

They would. However the consensus of scholarly opinion tends to be around the figures I have quoted above.

 

[- PC -]

Is there a further breakdown of race, creed and criminality?

Or are those figures Jewish exclusive?

I have seen reports of gypsies , criminals and communists also being gassed.

 

[WA ROO]

Is there a further breakdown of race, creed and criminality?

Or are those figures Jewish exclusive?

I have seen reports of gypsies , criminals and communists also being gassed.

Physically and mentally handicapped,homosexuals and various religious groups who because of their beliefs would not swear allegiance to the third reich

 

[dan warna]

<shrug> nazi sympathiser are sickness of our society.

the fact tehran is supporting them is sad and its sadder yet that people are going over their to join in a hatefest ><

 

[smooking39]

Why not? 60 years have passed and we want to tip toe around it still?

People like Irving should be laughed at , but he should also be allowed to question. Yes we know the holocaust happened, but have we really found out why?

Was it racial cleansing? Was it economic cleansing? Or was it a combination of both?

There is no law against finding out why or studying the holocaust but there is a law against questioning that it happened

 

[skilts]

I'm finding it difficult to make the connection between the Holocaust and the thickness of ladies' stockings.

 

[Moo]

Yeah i know that Moo... but the fact that his cartoon even fits in to a cartoon comp that was set up to take the piss out of the holocaust is disturbing.

Judge for yourself.

It was anti-war and not in the slightest bit disturbing.

 

[fabulousphil]

Russia gets overlooked in all of this.....about 20 million dead.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Russia gets overlooked in all of this.....about 20 million dead.

Why? You'd think with all the anti-communist propaganda of the last century or so that the treatment of jews in Russia/Eastern Europe would be oft-quoted.

RE: Mr Meaner, are you thinking of Dr. Death, the guy that a doco was made on a while back (same director as Thin Blue Line & Fog of War). Cant remember his real name but he tested for Zyklon B I think and testified in court that there was no evidence of it.

EDIT: This might be the guy

http://imdb.com/title/tt0192335/

Great filmmaker, he directed Brief History of Time as well.

 

[kookadog]

What would Borat say??

 

[Demonic Ascent]

What would Borat say??

High five!!