Being too reliant on KPF

[AllFooty4]

Rich from a Hawthorn fan i know

But really does it matter that much if it gets results week in week out? I mean Buddy and Jack the best forwards at the moment and they both get a fair bit of delivery but look who's leading the goal scorers....Does anyone else think it's just a bit of insignificant flaw that seems to get pointed out a lot?


Why fix something that isn't broken?

 

[benbanjo]

well what happends if that forward comes up against Lake, or lonagan.. and gets totally shut out?? need to find another way to win the game.... or if the farward is having an off day? collingwood and geelong can win games without their forwards staring.... hence why they are the best 2 teams in the comp.....

 

[AllFooty4]

well what happends if that forward comes up against Lake, or lonagan.. and gets totally shut out?? need to find another way to win the game.... or if the farward is having an off day? collingwood and geelong can win games without their forwards staring.... hence why they are the best 2 teams in the comp.....

I think that''s what alot of the time seperates the good teams from the bad.

 

[Jack2Johnston]

I'd be happy for the Swans to be reliant on Jack Reiwoldt to kick some goals.

Whatever type of forward line you have, it doesnt matter as long as it works.

 

[HyperAgressiveDonk]

Buddy is a very different player to Jack, as he's more unpredictable. Buddy gets up the ground a lot more and can burn opposition in a lot of different ways. Get's involved in the game even when he isn't scoring heavily. Take Buddy out of Hawthorn and we would struggle. Already had 3 clear BOGs this year and is a genuine gamebreaker.

Being reliant on Jack Riewoldt is an issue. For all the times the ball gets kicked to him this year he is still only averaging less than 10 disposals a game. That's an issue. Jack is a very good player one on one, but he is hardly one on one, because both Jack & Richmond are just too predictable. Jack Riewoldt has only had a big influence on one game this year. Even when he kicks 5, he doesn't influence games the way he should because he isn't being utilised right by Hardwick.

Remember that game against St Kilda, when Jack went off and Richmond all of a sudden looked a million dollars going forward? It was no coincidence, as they were unpredictable and much better off for it!

Hardwick needs to tell Jack to get up the ground a bit more and influence the game in different ways. Jack is a good enough player to still get his 5 or 6 scoring shots a match, but he would be helping the team immensely if he was picking up more posies and bringing other Richmond players into the game. Both him and Richmond will no doubt be better off for it, because as it stands now, Richmonds set-up is ordinary to say the least.

 

[Underdog]

well what happends if that forward comes up against Lake, or lonagan.. and gets totally shut out??

What bizzare examples.

I would've gone for the likes of Glass and Taylor...

 

[Ron The Bear]

Hardwick needs to tell Jack to get up the ground a bit more and influence the game in different ways. Jack is a good enough player to still get his 5 or 6 scoring shots a match, but he would be helping the team immensely if he was picking up more posies and bringing other Richmond players into the game. Both him and Richmond will no doubt be better off for it, because as it stands now, Richmonds set-up is ordinary to say the least.

Last year we ranked bottom for individual goalkickers per match, this year 10th of 17. Despite not being at the top of his game, Jack is attracting a lot of defensive attention and has still kicked 4-5-5-4-4 while averaging a career best 1.4 goal assists per match. Vickery is 2-3-2, and even Miller bobbed up with 3 last week. The forward line is a work in progress that's coming together slowly.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

The reason why most clubs aren't reliant on a KPF is because they don't have one.

 

[Demon 86]

The reason why most clubs aren't reliant on a KPF is because they don't have one.

I reckon this absolutely spot on.

Look at the Dogs from 07-09. Praised by many for having a dynamic, unpredictable small/medium forward line. Then in a couple of games they struggle to kick a winning score, and the lack of a KPF is blamed. In comes Barry Hall, and the second they lose a game they are suddenly too reliant on him!

 

[Prem87]

WC have Kennedy Darling Lynch Cox Naitanui all rotating through CHF/FF. Worked a treat this year as they stretch opposition defences.

In the past teams have used this to their advantage by playing smaller players on our talls and running the ball at will of our HF line. However our forward press ensures this isn't the case which in turn allows us to expose defences for a lack of height in defence.

 

[markr]

I don't think being reliant on a single KPF is any worse than being reliant on any single player. If you can't win without your star midfielder performing then what happens when he is tagged or injured? Or if your number one ruck goes down? The thing is clubs a more likely to have only one (or none) good key forwards than they are have one good midfielder, so it gets more attention.

 

[Demon 86]

I don't think being reliant on a single KPF is any worse than being reliant on any single player. If you can't win without your star midfielder performing then what happens when he is tagged or injured? Or if your number one ruck goes down? The thing is clubs a more likely to have only one (or none) good key forwards than they are have one good midfielder, so it gets more attention.

That sounds familiar

 

[Dazb86]

If you use them too often and overlook players in better positions it can be a worry.

Our inside 50 targets average per game are:

1 Barry Hall 12.2
2 Liam Jones 5.0
3 Will Minson 3.7
4 Jarrad Grant 3.6
5 Daniel Giansiracusa 3.2
6 Zephaniah Skinner 3.0
7 Lindsay Gilbee 2.8
8 Shaun Higgins 2.8

IMO that's pretty bad that we go to Hall so often as he's being double/triple teamed a lot of the time.

 

[absfab]

Rich from a Hawthorn fan i know

But really does it matter that much if it gets results week in week out? I mean Buddy and Jack the best forwards at the moment and they both get a fair bit of delivery but look who's leading the goal scorers....Does anyone else think it's just a bit of insignificant flaw that seems to get pointed out a lot?


Why fix something that isn't broken?

A stroll through modern history looking at the Coleman Medalist and the place his side finished on the ladder might tell you that "aint broke" is just just plain wrong.

As the cherry on top, unless there's an ease off in the current excessive tendency for the Umps to put the whistle away in finals and THROW it away for the GF then power forwards are the losers in September.

 

[TedDougChris]

If you use them too often and overlook players in better positions it can be a worry.

Our inside 50 targets average per game are:

1 Barry Hall 12.2
2 Liam Jones 5.0
3 Will Minson 3.7
4 Jarrad Grant 3.6
5 Daniel Giansiracusa 3.2
6 Zephaniah Skinner 3.0
7 Lindsay Gilbee 2.8
8 Shaun Higgins 2.8

IMO that's pretty bad that we go to Hall so often as he's being double/triple teamed a lot of the time.

But that is also a function of the midfielders chosing the wrong option. We often have Jones or Grant leading, but don't honour the lead. There is a balance and it's better to have more options than less, but only if you actually use those options when it's appropriate.

 

[mysainters]

Just look at us for example.

 

[absfab]

I don't think being reliant on a single KPF is any worse than being reliant on any single player. If you can't win without your star midfielder performing then what happens when he is tagged or injured?

Despite the ongoing cliches around Judd and Carlton one star midfielder or even two can't carry a midfield in the modern game. To do well any team needs another six players who are at least competent rotating through.

One star forward can, however, carry a forward line. But history shows us they can only carry it so far.

 

[Stamos]

When was the last time a KPF kicked a bag in the Grand Final?

 

[Dick johnson]

Rich from a Hawthorn fan i know

But really does it matter that much if it gets results week in week out? I mean Buddy and Jack the best forwards at the moment and they both get a fair bit of delivery but look who's leading the goal scorers....Does anyone else think it's just a bit of insignificant flaw that seems to get pointed out a lot?


Why fix something that isn't broken?

look at who's on top of the ladder.
the aim of the game is to win as many games as you can, not have one of your forwards on top of the goalkicking list

 

[gbatman]

it matters if you want to win a flag because the day your tall forward does not fire is the day you lose the premiership of get knocked out. Good teams can too easily shut down a forward line with a focal point.

 

[Tiger Titus]

Being too reliant on your KPF is bad by definition. If you need a bloke to kick half your score and he only fires up 2 out of 3 games then you're giving up a third of your games before you even start.

However, having a dominant KPF is not a bad thing. The Tigers wouldn't trade Riewoldt for anything, we just need to create a structure that creates opportunities out of the fact that Jack is getting double and triple teamed.

I think a more interesting question is whether Richmond, Hawthorn, and the Bulldogs are too reliant on their gun KPF, and this is how I see it:

Richmond: Yes, but we're working on it, presenting a couple of extra talls up forward (Vickery, Miller), as well as asking for more goals out of the midfield.

Bulldogs: No, I think after last weekend we can agree the Dogs have got some goal kicking power beyond Barry.

Hawthorn: No, the Hawks can win games without Franklin kicking a bag, but when he does get off the leash they seem to win every time. He's like the opposite of Hodge early last year (BoG games in a losing team). Sounds like a fantastic "problem" to have as far as I'm concerned.

 

[who_let_the_dogs_out]

What bizzare examples.

I would've gone for the likes of Glass and Taylor...

How is Lake a bizarre example? AA Full Back last year, and probably one of the best contested marks in the game. Has shut down Franklin many a time.

 

[evo]

Being too reliant on your KPF is bad by definition. If you need a bloke to kick half your score and he only fires up 2 out of 3 games then you're giving up a third of your games before you even start.

However, having a dominant KPF is not a bad thing. The Tigers wouldn't trade Riewoldt for anything, we just need to create a structure that creates opportunities out of the fact that Jack is getting double and triple teamed.

I think a more interesting question is whether Richmond, Hawthorn, and the Bulldogs are too reliant on their gun KPF, and this is how I see it:

Richmond: Yes, but we're working on it, presenting a couple of extra talls up forward (Vickery, Miller), as well as asking for more goals out of the midfield.

Bulldogs: No, I think after last weekend we can agree the Dogs have got some goal kicking power beyond Barry.

Hawthorn: No, the Hawks can win games without Franklin kicking a bag, but when he does get off the leash they seem to win every time. He's like the opposite of Hodge early last year (BoG games in a losing team). Sounds like a fantastic "problem" to have as far as I'm concerned.

Vickery is looking a more dangerous forward by the week and 200cm booming kick Griffen is playing 'Burger firsts this week after recovering from a shoulder op.

We shouldn't be relying on Jack for too much longer.... a matter of weeks

Edit: Post has been picked this week too

 

[bombermick]

When was the last time a KPF kicked a bag in the Grand Final?

Probably Lloyd and Lucas in '01 and we of course lost. Vickery is starting to become a good foil for Riewoldt, but he's still not dangerous enough for teams to stop double-teaming. Franklin been such a threat no doubt helped Williams to kick 4 in '08 and be a major reason why they won the game.

 

[Stamos]

Probably Lloyd and Lucas in '01 and we of course lost. Vickery is starting to become a good foil for Riewoldt, but he's still not dangerous enough for teams to stop double-teaming. Franklin been such a threat no doubt helped Williams to kick 4 in '08 and be a major reason why they won the game.

Williams only kicked 3 in 2008.
I'll count more than 5 as a bag, the last time a KPF did this was Locket (6) in a losing team in 1996. Kernahan kicked 7 in a losing team in 1993.