Bernie Vince?

[mdc]

Prismall was quality at Geelong, got the ball plenty and used it well. Was soft and outside though, so Bomber wouldn't play him.

Tbh, I probably agree that Wellingham would struggle having to be the no.1 or 2 mid in a side. Or at least that side would struggle.

 

[PieBeast]

Prismall was quality at Geelong, got the ball plenty and used it well. Was soft and outside though, so Bomber wouldn't play him.

Tbh, I probably agree that Wellingham would struggle having to be the no.1 or 2 mid in a side. Or at least that side would struggle.

Yeah mate, his game against Melbourne showed that.....

 

[TradeDraft]

Yeah mate, his game against Melbourne showed that.....

I think he Means Week In and Week Out

 

[mdc]

Yeah mate, his game against Melbourne showed that.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hasty_generalization

He's a quality player who complements our midfield perfectly. I wouldn't trade him for Vince. But he's hardly a picture of consistency. Subject him to a tag, and I don't think the results would be pretty.

(yes, he has room for improvement but I'm talking about right now)

 

[TheFreshBanana]

Wellingham has shown that given the opportunity he can step his game up to the next level.

But because of the lack of opportunity through the midfield, it seems like some days he just decides to cruise through the game which may explain his inconsistency.

 

[PieBeast]

I think he Means Week In and Week Out

Oh I know mate but so far this is the only evidence we have so I'm happy to base my judgement on that.

I honestly expect Wellers to reach a star status next year, thats why I'm so opposed to any suggestions of trading him for a talented but heartless and highly inconsistent not to mention his off field issues player like Vince, even with pick ten included.

 

[PieBeast]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hasty_generalization

He's a quality player who complements our midfield perfectly. I wouldn't trade him for Vince. But he's hardly a picture of consistency. Subject him to a tag, and I don't think the results would be pretty.

(yes, he has room for improvement but I'm talking about right now)

Thats all good and well but I'm basing my opinion on facts while you're simply pushing your point of view.
Right now Wellingham is a far better prospect than Vince.

 

[dylan123]

Thats all good and well but I'm basing my opinion on facts while you're simply pushing your point of view.
Right now Wellingham is a far better prospect than Vince.

Sorry, but are you basing this on one game against Melbourne this year without Swan and Thompson where the score was 129 to 41 Collingwood's way?

I'd like to see him stand up a few times and in a losing side before I would call it a fact that he can break a tag.

 

[PieBeast]

Sorry, but are you basing this on one game against Melbourne this year without Swan and Thompson where the score was 129 to 41 Collingwood's way?

I'd like to see him stand up a few times and in a losing side before I would call it a fact that he can break a tag.

Yeah, I'm basing it on a fact that when given responsibility he stepped up, you and MDC are basing your opinions on nothing but gut feels, there's a difference.
I think you meant Thomas and score was 129-41 largely to Wellingham's amazing game, see how easy it is to see things from another perspective?
And in any case, if you don't think Wellers is that good why are you discussing his possible trade to the Crows

 

[mdc]

Yeah, I'm basing it on a fact that when given responsibility he stepped up, you and MDC are basing your opinions on nothing but gut feels, there's a difference.

I'm basing it on the statistical fact that he's wildly inconsistent, taken over a sample of 2 seasons. You're using a sample of 1 game.

 

[PieBeast]

I'm basing it on the statistical fact that he's wildly inconsistent, taken over a sample of 2 seasons. You're using a sample of 1 game.

Yeah I am, as I was replying to your post doubting his credentials to be a number 1 or two mid in the side. Melbourne game seems like a reasonable example as thats the only occasion he had the chance to do that.

 

[dylan123]

Yeah, I'm basing it on a fact that when given responsibility he stepped up, you and MDC are basing your opinions on nothing but gut feels, there's a difference.

Well look at it this way, in 2009 we hit the finals and as all sides do, you rely on your best players. Vince came out in the first match and got 28 possessions and 1 goal having been worked over both mentally and physically and was one of the best on ground for us.

The following week we play you guys and he backs that game up with 34 touches, another game we dominated for a half before letting you guys back into the game and getting another loss to Collingwood in the dying minutes of a match.

Base Vince off these two games alone and he is one of the best players running around. Now put him in a side that loses McLeod, Goodwin, Edwards etc and the side begins to struggle and take a look at how he goes (note he also had plenty of injuries in this two year period).

But what I am trying to say is that heaps of players can look like allstars when their teams are playing well, but you only see just what the player is made out of when you see the team struggling like we have with Adelaide for the past two seasons and why many of you guys do not rate Vince as highly as you would have at the end of the 09 season.

I think you meant Thomas and score was 129-41 largely to Wellingham's amazing game, see how easy it is to see things from another perspective?
And in any case, if you don't think Wellers is that good why are you discussing his possible trade to the Crows

Yes I did mean Thomas.

As you can see above from my point with Vince is what I mean by Wellingham.

Feel free to find a post where I have said Wellingham is no good and where I have mentioned him as a player I want the Crows to target if we trade Vince.

I stated a few pages back that I don't think you guys would trade him, Sidebottom etc as it really isn't enough of a "win" for Collingwood to make the effort of trading one of these guys. I also said that Adelaide isn't going to setting for someone like Goldsack who really isn't anywhere near the standard of player Vince is. I did say I would be happy if Wellingham did manage to make his way to the Crows but not at the expense of Vince as well as our first round draft pick.

 

[Scodog10]

Fwiw, Minson did manage to get 56 hit outs against Collingwood in round 6 (I think Jolly may have missed that match).

I don't think you guys are knocking that one back, more of saying that's what you believe is fair. But from an Adelaide perspective I certainty wouldn't want to give up that much for Wellingham.

Jolly did indeed miss that match.

For mine that'd be slight over's, I'd probably try and fiddle around with the compensation you get for Davis instead. Something along the lines of:

Vince + band 2 compensation pick

for

Wellers + 3rd round pick

I just don't know about the value of the pick we'd need to send your way. If we were pushing to get the deal done I'd say our second rounder at least would need to go your way, but if the Crows are pushing for the deal I'd stick with the 3rd rounder at most.

Considering I doubt very much we'd be putting up Wellingham, I had to go with the 3rd rounder. For any Pies fans that may possibly feel that a 3rd rounder is too much just remember that the Crows wouldn't use our 4th rounder as it'll be around the 85 mark and that a band 2 compensation pick is more valuable than a first round pick in the 2011 draft.

If we could wrangle that compensation pick out of you that'd be one hell of a bargaining chip to dangle in front of GWS along with Goldsack, for O'Meara's or Stringer's services.

All up I reckon I could live with losing Goldsack, Wellingham and a 3rd round pick for Vince and O'Meara/ Stringer.

All fantasy crap though as the likelihood of this happening is extraordinarily slim!

 

[dylan123]

If we could wrangle that compensation pick out of you that'd be one hell of a bargaining chip to dangle in front of GWS along with Goldsack, for O'Meara's or Stringer's services.

Agreed although at the same time I have a feeling we will be trying to use it to get Ben Kennedy to the Crows as well.

All fantasy crap though as the likelihood of this happening is extraordinarily slim!

Very true but we need a place where we can discuss our fantasy trade ideas!

 

[Scodog10]

Agreed although at the same time I have a feeling we will be trying to use it to get Ben Kennedy to the Crows as well.

Very true but we need a place where we can discuss our fantasy trade ideas!

TBH I'd expect Adelaide to go down that path as well with Kennedy!

Just out of curiosity how inclined would you be to make the deal if it was Mackay and that compensation pick for Wellingham?

 

[dylan123]

TBH I'd expect Adelaide to go down that path as well with Kennedy!

Just out of curiosity how inclined would you be to make the deal if it was Mackay and that compensation pick for Wellingham?

Hmmm, that's a really tough one. I think Mackay has probably been talked up to a similar extent on the Adelaide board as Wellingham appears to have been on here (probably not as much) Although he hasn't shown as much as Wellingham due to injuries.

I really guess it depends what band compo pick we get for Davis. If it was a band 3 (at the end of the first round) then I certainly would be considering that. If it was band 2 (after your teams first round pick) then I am not so sure because the value of that pick is very high to teams like GC, GWS, Port etc because if we traded that and they waited one year, they could then use it after their first round pick which would be a top 5 pick which is worth heaps to those sides.

Out of interest, I know you guys were really keen on Cook a couple of seasons ago, do you think Collingwood would have another crack at him now? Wouldn't be worth much at all (if anything) but one I wonder whether you will try and get him again.

 

[Scodog10]

Hmmm, that's a really tough one. I think Mackay has probably been talked up to a similar extent on the Adelaide board as Wellingham appears to have been on here (probably not as much) Although he hasn't shown as much as Wellingham due to injuries.

I really guess it depends what band compo pick we get for Davis. If it was a band 3 (at the end of the first round) then I certainly would be considering that. If it was band 2 (after your teams first round pick) then I am not so sure because the value of that pick is very high to teams like GC, GWS, Port etc because if we traded that and they waited one year, they could then use it after their first round pick which would be a top 5 pick which is worth heaps to those sides.

Out of interest, I know you guys were really keen on Cook a couple of seasons ago, do you think Collingwood would have another crack at him now? Wouldn't be worth much at all (if anything) but one I wonder whether you will try and get him again.

Fair enough. I probably rate Mackay a lot higher than most of my Collingwood counterparts so no doubt any sort of deal for him involving Wellingham would be howled down no matter what it is. Oh and I really don't want it to look like I want to offload Wellingham either, just curious more than anything else!

I'd be surprised if the club went down the path of Cook as he wouldn't really address any sort of need and would be a long way down the pecking order once at the club, but stranger things have happened. I have to say though I for one would take a dim view of getting him to the club as I'm not the biggest Myke Cook fan...