Opinion Best 22 - 2015

[HBF]

Overrated is simply rating a player to be better than what they are at the moment. It does not mean that they aren't good. Just talked up as being better than their best.

OVERRATED (overhyped, calling players guns, praising them when they don't show enough sometimes, and putting them in best 25)

- Patrick Cripps (but talented and has earned his spot in the side. It is just that everybody talks him up SO much like he is more successful than Judd).
- Blaine Boekhorst (being the top draft pick for last year. Every year the top draft pick gets the most attention. The numbers do not matter).
- Dylan Buckley (he has a bit of a cult following, but I will still give him a chance).
- Troy Menzel (but it is starting to wear off given his good skills. He is in the 22).
- Nick Graham (People have been rating him as a best 22 player, when he has not had much game time).
- Clem Smith (A bit to early to chuck him in any 22).
- Sam Docherty (Shown lots, but their are boundaries with him that many do not see).
- Tom Bell ( Half-half really. His shape and comparisons to Kouta, keeps him in the light when it comes to the media).

UNDERRATED (not mentioned much, often can be a key to a successful side or forgotten about)

- Ed Curnow (Probably the most underrated player in the team. Most former rookies in general are often underrated. Still gets seen as being inexperienced and at the same time hitting the end of his career. Key tagger that epitomizes many team performances).
- Kade Simpson (It is all Gibbs, Judd and Murphy. Simpson is just as talented but not as popular, regardless of where he plays on the field. Midfield or Half-back).
- Simon White (has shown to be a great swing-man for the team. Everybody tends to forget his impact in the game).
- David Ellard (shown glimpses of being an effective player. But his calf troubles keep him to an ordinary status at the club).

Way to start your BF career with a bang.
Fair to say i'm a Cripps fan, but I don't see how we're overrating him. I think we're all just excited to see how he'll progress this year after his game against a full strength Geelong midfield last weekend. He'll get a fair bit of lattitude this year with all of the attention going to Murphy, Judd and Gibbs.

 

[HARKER]

Way to start your BF career with a bang.
Fair to say i'm a Cripps fan, but I don't see how we're overrating him. I think we're all just excited to see how he'll progress this year after his game against a full strength Geelong midfield last weekend. He'll get a fair bit of lattitude this year with all of the attention going to Murphy, Judd and Gibbs.

At least Cripps has played at this level.

If you didn't know better, you'd swear some of last years recruits were champions of the game, given the way they're talked up on opposition boards.

Don't really want to say which teams boards but a little bit of reading will show them up very quickly

 

[RAPPA]

If Jones eventuates into a forward line failure, do we target Kersten or Walker (assuming they will be pushed out with a potentially successful Clark and Hawkins combo)?

 

[T2B_]

Sounds good but can Kruezer get back on the park long enough and can he be a good target? So far he hasn't shown that he can be a good mark or that he can be a reliable set shot.

Strange thing about Kreuz is that in his first season you just about wouldn't find anyone more accurate at goal.

What happened after that I've no idea.

 

[Coona Blues]

If Jones eventuates into a forward line failure, do we target Kersten or Walker (assuming they will be pushed out with a potentially successful Clark and Hawkins combo)?

An emphatic NO to targetting. (although would not knock back Walker if cheap, cheap, cheap)

We have Kreuzer and Giles still on the list, who will be best 22 if they can overcome their issues (yeah I know Giles will take time)
Watson and Jones are both AFL quality players, maybe not stars, and perhaps mentally fragile. Adding Everitt, White and Walker to
forward line mix gives us options. Jaksch can play forward, as can Rowe. We can mix up our talls and mediums to offer a potent forward line.

No more over priced role players or underachievers from other clubs. Work with what we have, and draft for quality.

Initially reports on young Jack Silvagni are very promising as a KPF. He is ours at the next draft.

No more paying a premium for Warnock, McLean and Thomas types. (note still have high hopes Daisy will come good though)

If we release the purse strings it must be for Dangerfield or a quality young mid to increase our midfield class with pending
retirement for Judd and Carrazzo. The only other possible expenditure should be for a young ruck if one is excess at another club.

 

[TeeJay Blue]

Way to start your BF career with a bang.
Fair to say i'm a Cripps fan, but I don't see how we're overrating him. I think we're all just excited to see how he'll progress this year after his game against a full strength Geelong midfield last weekend. He'll get a fair bit of lattitude this year with all of the attention going to Murphy, Judd and Gibbs.

I am excited for Cripps as well. But what I have noticed is at certain times when he or other young players do not show enough, I notice comments such as 'How good were they?', 'Best on ground for sure.', 'Absolute champion.' and even 'Rising star this year'. Some people on social media do happen to say this sort of stuff, which really irritates me.

 

[HBF]

I am excited for Cripps as well. But what I have noticed is at certain times when he or other young players do not show enough, I notice comments such as 'How good were they?', 'Best on ground for sure.', 'Absolute champion.' and even 'Rising star this year'. Some people on social media do happen to say this sort of stuff, which really irritates me.

I don't understand what you're saying.
Why would we say stuff like how good were they when they're not showing enough.

 

[MrsEddieBetts]

I am excited for Cripps as well. But what I have noticed is at certain times when he or other young players do not show enough, I notice comments such as 'How good were they?', 'Best on ground for sure.', 'Absolute champion.' and even 'Rising star this year'. Some people on social media do happen to say this sort of stuff, which really irritates me.

Do you have an example of when this has happened? I called out Cripps as BOG against Geelong and I stand by that.

 

[HBF]

Do you have an example of when this has happened? I called out Cripps as BOG against Geelong and I stand by that.

Can't remember the stats off the top of my head, but something like 30 touches, 12ish clearances and a goal isn't a bad days work at the office.

 

[TeeJay Blue]

Do you have an example of when this has happened? I called out Cripps as BOG against Geelong and I stand by that.

Can't remember the stats off the top of my head, but something like 30 touches, 12ish clearances and a goal isn't a bad days work at the office.

No he was certainly best on ground against the cats in that match. It is just that I was reading comments like those I said earlier in such posts on the Carlton Facebook page for the R23 match against the bombers last year. Cripps done little and everybody was saying stuff that seemed a bit ridiculous.
Same thing when it came with Buckley in the first NAB challenge round against the eagles this year. He was one of the poorest performers and was still praised, saying that he 'must play round 1' or 'he did so much'. Of course I can't point fingers at anybody, but there were a few people doing this.

As I said, it is okay to get excited with the youth. That is one thing, but it is another thing to say things like 'best on ground' when they only get the ball around 8 times.

 

[MrsEddieBetts]

No he was certainly best on ground against the cats in that match. It is just that I was reading comments like those I said earlier in such posts on the Carlton Facebook page for the R23 match against the bombers last year. Cripps done little and everybody was saying stuff that seemed a bit ridiculous.
Same thing when it came with Buckley in the first NAB challenge round against the eagles this year. He was one of the poorest performers and was still praised, saying that he 'must play round 1' or 'he did so much'. Of course I can't point fingers at anybody, but there were a few people doing this.

As I said, it is okay to get excited with the youth. That is one thing, but it is another thing to say things like 'best on ground' when they only get the ball around 8 times.

Ohh, there's your problem! I'd stop reading the Facebook page comments immediately. It would seem that it is overrun with members of the unofficial selection committee, disgruntled ex-members, teenage girls, and opposition supporters.

 

[ferrisb]

In NB's defense, s/he has a point.

I'm very excited about many of our youngsters, but at the moment most are more prospective than proven (at AFL level).

For me, I can say with a straight face that Cripps looks ready for prime time and could make a big diff to our midfield. Likewise you can point to Graham adding size and Boeky possibly fixing some of our outside run problems. Smitty could give us much needed aggression and x-factor. Etc

But right here, right now, those players would be below average when compared to regular best 22 players across the comp.

Give them time and these guys potentially could push us up the ladder in the coming years (geez I hope so), but right now they are fringe-ish players and will probably not drive a marked improvement in the team this season.

So let's keep some perspective. These kids are exciting, but it's very 'early doors' for many of them.

 

[MrsEddieBetts]

In NB's defense, s/he has a point.

I'm very excited about many of our youngsters, but at the moment most are more prospective than proven (at AFL level).

For me, I can say with a straight face that Cripps looks ready for prime time and could make a big diff to our midfield. Likewise you can point to Graham adding size and Boeky possibly fixing some of our outside run problems. Smitty could give us much needed aggression and x-factor. Etc

But right here, right now, those players would be below average when compared to regular best 22 players across the comp.

Give them time and these guys potentially could push us up the ladder in the coming years (geez I hope so), but right now they are fringe-ish players and will probably not drive a marked improvement in the team this season.

So let's keep some perspective. These kids are exciting, but it's very 'early doors' for many of them.

I didn't think NB needed defending, to be honest. I was just questioning when and where they saw the comments that they're criticizing.

 

[HBF]

I didn't think NB needed defending, to be honest. I was just questioning when and where they saw the comments that they're criticizing.

I'd stay away from Carltons FB page as well. So much negativity over there. Makes TC look like a well balanced and thought provoking site.

 

[King of Ruin]

Nothing can make it appear in such a way.

 

[ferrisb]

Yeah, maybe not MEB. But to me this discussion points to a wider issue.

Massively putting my neck on the line here, but..... I think there is quite a bit of justification to the media's criticism of the quality and depth of our youth.

Yes, the media rhetoric is WAY overboard, but who would you rather have in the team? DylBucks (who I absolutely love) or Brodie Smith? Nick Graham or Adam Treloar? Even bloody Menzel (who is just mind-blowingly talented) would arguably fail in a face-off against Chad Wingard.

I know these comparisons are not fair. I've picked best of breed players and I also think each of the comparison players I have chosen are a year older than Carlton players. BUT...This a basic illustration of what we need to keep in mind when thinking about our list.

We have some very promising kids, but it's not like they've taken the competition by storm yet. YES I know it's early in their careers, and I DON'T expect much/any more than they have already proven. I expect a kid who has played two seasons to have played maybe 5-15 matches. But some kids come on quicker and make you say 'I can't believe he has already shown that much by this age, it's insane'. We don't have many of those. Hence the 'Carlton lack youth'. It's not that we don't have any promising kids at all, but that we lack a group of 'standout' kids. I think that criticism is fair.

We have had too many drafting misses in recent years. Luckily, I think the drafting (and probably more so) the canny trading we have done over the last couple of years is the start of putting us back on track.

Please note this post is not intended to pot any of our players. And nor am I a chicken little type. Just saying that without recent trading and an improvement in drafting, I can understand others looking at our list and thinking 'fast forward a few years and Carlton might struggle'.

EDIT 1: Sorry for choosing DylB as an example. Powering up my glower shield right now

EDIT 2: While I see some justification for the 'media opinion', I do lament their laziness. I know that headlines don't allow for 'Carlton lack depth (except for Menzel, a promising Cripps, impressive Jaksch, potential draft steal Smith and other). BUT it doesn't excuse them from once they have branded Carlton one way being blind to anything that goes against that assertion...

EDIT 3: Sorry for the long-Windyd posts.

 

[getgaff]

Hey guys.

Sorry to intrude but I've been posting my best 22's for all 18 clubs on the main AFL board. Would love to get your thoughts on Carlton's BEST 22. Not necessarily the Round 1 team but the best available.

FULL BACKS: Zach Tuohy ~ Michael Jamison ~ Andrew Walker
HALF BACKS: Sam Docherty ~ Sam Rowe ~ Chris Yarran

MIDFIELDERS: Andrew Carrazzo ~ Chris Judd ~ Kade Simpson
FOLLOWERS: Matthew Kruezer ~ Bryce Gibbs ~ Marc Murphy

HALF FORWARDS: Dale Thomas ~ Lachie Henderson ~ Andrejs Everitt
FULL FORWARDS: Liam Jones ~ Levi Casboult ~ Troy Menzel

INTERCHANGE: Dylan Buckley ~ Patrick Cripps ~ Kristian Jaksch
SUB: Blaine Boekhorst/ Clem Smith/ Jason Tutt

• I firmly believe that Blaine Boekhorst can step right in and be a Best 21 or 22 player. Comes as a mature age draftee with experience at WAFL level. Better prepared to play straight away than most other first round draftees. For a team wanting to add clean foot disposal and outside speed he ticks the bokes.

• Same goes for Clem Smith. Young in age but mature in his body and uses it to his advantage regularly. Same as Boekhorst he has what Carlton wants as does Tutt. All 3 would be ideal bringing fresh legs as a SUB.

• Carrazzo V Curnow was a flip of the coin. No disrespect to Curnow as he is a good tagger and team player but the experience of Carrazzo possibly means he gets the job as chief tagger first.

• Menzel I'd like to see have more of a mifield role during 2015, inury permitting obviously but another mid/ tall sized midfielder who is sure by foot and has leg speed.

 

[slashin_velvet]

Anyone who leaves out Curnow, doesnt get my tick of approval....whilst they play different roles, he'd be in the 22 ahead of Docherty and Buckley.

 

[MrsEddieBetts]

Yeah, maybe not MEB. But to me this discussion points to a wider issue.

Massively putting my neck on the line here, but..... I think there is quite a bit of justification to the media's criticism of the quality and depth of our youth.

Yes, the media rhetoric is WAY overboard, but who would you rather have in the team? DylBucks (who I absolutely love) or Brodie Smith? Nick Graham or Adam Treloar? Even bloody Menzel (who is just mind-blowingly talented) would arguably fail in a face-off against Chad Wingard.

I know these comparisons are not fair. I've picked best of breed players and I also think each of the comparison players I have chosen are a year older than Carlton players. BUT...This a basic illustration of what we need to keep in mind when thinking about our list.

We have some very promising kids, but it's not like they've taken the competition by storm yet. YES I know it's early in their careers, and I DON'T expect much/any more than they have already proven. I expect a kid who has played two seasons to have played maybe 5-15 matches. But some kids come on quicker and make you say 'I can't believe he has already shown that much by this age, it's insane'. We don't have many of those. Hence the 'Carlton lack youth'. It's not that we don't have any promising kids at all, but that we lack a group of 'standout' kids. I think that criticism is fair.

We have had too many drafting misses in recent years. Luckily, I think the drafting (and probably more so) the canny trading we have done over the last couple of years is the start of putting us back on track.

Please note this post is not intended to pot any of our players. And nor am I a chicken little type. Just saying that without recent trading and an improvement in drafting, I can understand others looking at our list and thinking 'fast forward a few years and Carlton might struggle'.

EDIT 1: Sorry for choosing DylB as an example. Powering up my glower shield right now

EDIT 2: While I see some justification for the 'media opinion', I do lament their laziness. I know that headlines don't allow for 'Carlton lack depth (except for Menzel, a promising Cripps, impressive Jaksch, potential draft steal Smith and other). BUT it doesn't excuse them from once they have branded Carlton one way being blind to anything that goes against that assertion...

EDIT 3: Sorry for the long-Windyd posts.

Put your shield down fez, you're entitled to your opinion. I do agree with you anyway, particularly with the comparisons.

 

[getgaff]

Anyone who leaves out Curnow, doesnt get my tick of approval....whilst they play different roles, he'd be in the 22 ahead of Docherty and Buckley.

Fair enough. What are the PROS and CONS for each selection? Can Curnow and Carrazzo both play best 22?

 

[slashin_velvet]

Fair enough. What are the PROS and CONS for each selection? Can Curnow and Carrazzo both play best 22?

Certainly. If you had a chance to see the NAB games he played in - Carrots played a much more offensive role - which he was doing well for us in 2011 and the start of 2012. He doesnt have the tank of Curnow who is one of the best taggers in the game (particularly with Crowley out of the picture).

Docherty and Buckley are both still developing. By the time they are permanent locks, Carrots will be retired anyway.

Edit: the moves I would make for this to work on paper is:
- Buckley out
- Docherty to the bench
- Simpson to the back flank
- Thomas to the wing
- Judd to HFF
- Curnow in the centre

 

[Beer n Skittles]

Fair enough. What are the PROS and CONS for each selection? Can Curnow and Carrazzo both play best 22?

Buckley is the best impact player of the three. Has pace, maybe not the best kick, but reads the play well so kicks to the right spots. Needs to build size & fitness so he can stay involved in the game, floats in & out too much.

Curnow is the opposite. He's built & runs all day. Doesn't have a big impact on any contest, but all his work adds up.

Docherty is midway between the two. IMO he has the most potential to improve. Usually good with the ball but if he does kick a clanger they tend to be particularly bad.

Each could be best 22 it just depends on what you think the team lacks. IMO Carlton don't run hard enough as it is, so you can't take Curnow & Bell out of the team.

 

[Dominator68]

Footballers are like sausages. Problem is we don't have many gourmet, high end sausages. We have a lot of lots of players, who if they were sausages, would be on the hot plate out the front of Bunnings.
Therefore, it doesn't really make much difference which 22 sausages you pull out of our esky and put on the hotplate. You can move them around and spin them, lather them in tommy sauce etc but at the end of the day you have 22 sausages, most of ours are budget thin ones like you get at Woolies.

 

[I AM CARLTON]

FB: Buckley Jamieson White
HB: Simpson Henderson Docherty
C: Boekhorst Cripps Judd
HF: Gibbs Rowe Everitt
FF: Walker Jaksch Murphy
R: Kruezer Menzel Yarran

I/C Whiley Bryne Smith Thomas

A few points:
Put this 22 together with a big eye on the future allowing our younger players more midfield time.
Maybe time for me to accept Henderson is not a forward allow Jaksch to develop as a full forward
With Kruezer injured would play Casboult as first ruck, might lose ruck contests but would offer more around the ground the Warnock/Wood
Went with a team with less taggers

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Alright. Trying a new fully fit best 22. Moving Hendo back because he's struggling up forward and we need more room for some attacking options

FB: Buckley Jamison White
HB: Docherty Henderson Everitt

C: Yarran Gibbs Simpson
R: Kreuzer Murphy Curnow

HF: Menzel Casboult (Daisy) Judd
FF: Walker Jones Jaksch

Int: Cripps, Bell, Boekhurst, Watson

Not sure if I missed anyone, im sure I did.

Rowe out for Hendersons return to the backline. Its a tough call but I think its the right one.

Im trying Jaksch forward. He looked a bit lost in defence and was beaten 1 on 1 a few times in the first half (which is all i saw, bad work)

Watson in there just for a chance at seeing how he goes up forward. If he fails, bring in another runner.

Docherty, Buckley, White, Jamison, Henderson and Everitt shoulf give us elite run off the half back. Quite a few good deliverys there and some elite run from Bucks and Doc.

Carrots isnt it my best 22, let Boek have a run and see how he goes. Keep blooding Cripps he needs to become a gun and I think he will.

Small forwards are good I think, Judd resting, Menzel and Walker playing forward give us a lot of x factor. Cas to crash the packs and Jones to hopefully grab one or two. Jaksch looked good kicking for goal