List Mgmt. Best 23 for 2024

[Groupie_]

You’re comparing the top of the lists. Our problem is the older declining players and youth that has not developed at the bottom.

need to get some umpies to develop them quicker

 

[AstuteTiger]

List better than Pies. So we should win the flag or end top 3-4 at worst?
Are you joking?
Our list is declining and will take 3 years to rebuild if all goes well.

I know your post is not referenced to me but thought I'd give my thoughts.

Do you think the Pies have an outstanding list? Their system/structure won them the flag. A combined total of 12 points in finals, that's not a club that's ahead of the pack. Anyone with half a brain would say had the Dees had a full forward they would have beaten them, 69 inside 50's to 37 pretty much sums up that assertion. But dees not smart enough to target a star FF and went for Grundy instead and this came back to haunt them.
GWS got shafted in that last qtr. This is not making excuses but stating it as it is.

That won't happen again in 2024 for the pies, book mark this comment. I'm 2 from 2 atm said Dees won't win a dynasty after their 2021 flag, while many were saying the opposite I was saying they do not offer anything more that makes them stand out like the dynasty Hawks (precision foot kills) and Tigers (all over the ground pressure for 4 qtrs and our exciting forward handball game).
The last two years out in straight sets.

Cats I said they would be lucky to make finals, players got their ultimate reward, and their list one year older, correct again.

Pies 2nd oldest list and everyone will be coming for them in 2024. Will still make finals but I'll call it now they won't win it again.

People have short memories, the pies finished 17th in 2021 and the media were saying they needed to rebuild, blah blah blah. They get a new coach, players invigorated, and new Tigers game plan and they make the top 4 in 2022 and then win the flag this year.

GWS looked average last year didn't play finals, get a new coach in Kingsley, players invigorated, tigers game plan, and playoff in a prelim, 1 point off a GF

Most of us watching this year were gobsmacked that the game plan was all over the place, to many players being gifted games, players coasting, injuries to key players didn't help too etc

Tigers at full strength imho can match it with any team. The thing for me is will the game plan which will have a mix of tigers and dees put us back in finals or hypothetically speaking top 4/6 contention. Players from what I am hearing are rejuvenated under Yze. So a new game plan and players hungry again under a new coach is what we will all be waiting to see. I do believe we will play finals, how far we can go remains to be seen but happy to see the new era/journey under Yze.

 

[AstuteTiger]

Loving how most these sides have Cumberland in the team

Im thinking Coulthard , Clarke & Campbell will be best 22 in 12-24 months and Cumberland will be traded or delisted

Why not? I rate cumbers. Only need to see what he produced in late 2022. Dimma killed his confidence, period. He will thrive under Yze and I do believe he can recapture that form.

I like Clarke and Coulthard, Campbell mate let's see, that's a big if and an even bigger if suggesting Cumberland will be traded or delisted in the next 12-24 mths.

 

[_RT_]

Disagree with most of your AFL quality list as most are either finished up or not good enough . I believe a lot of those fringe players are better than them. Nankervis and Hopper should not be locks. Kozi and Naismith were VFL players this year at best and are no guarantees to step up. Dow is not proven AFL quality and is well below a handful of the fringe players.
We need Sonsie, Clarke, MRJ NIWL Brown, Bauer, Trezise, Banks, Miller and RYAN to all displace those you have above them otherwise we've wasted another season playing rejects or finished up champs
McAuliffe looks ready made and may surprise a lot on here.

This is done as an exercise to see where we stand heading into 2024 and then to compare to how we end the season. As you said the more of those players I've named in the fringe players category that can step up and become AFL quality or even better make themselves locks the better it will be for us as a club.

Nankervis and Hopper are both locks whether you like it or not, while Koschitzke is definitely AFL calibre IMO, you don't play nearly 50 games if you're no good, I also believe that Naismith has shown he is good enough to be a regular at AFL level, the issue has been that his body has let him down. As far as Dow is concerned, IMO he showed enough in the latter part of the season to suggest he can be a handy member of our midfield. He won't be a star of the side, but he has enough talent to become a regular if he has a big summer, which from what I've read so far he is looking very good.

 

[TigerImposter]

This is done as an exercise to see where we stand heading into 2024 and then to compare to how we end the season. As you said the more of those players I've named in the fringe players category that can step up and become AFL quality or even better make themselves locks the better it will be for us as a club.

Nankervis and Hopper are both locks whether you like it or not, while Koschitzke is definitely AFL calibre IMO, you don't play nearly 50 games if you're no good, I also believe that Naismith has shown he is good enough to be a regular at AFL level, the issue has been that his body has let him down. As far as Dow is concerned, IMO he showed enough in the latter part of the season to suggest he can be a handy member of our midfield. He won't be a star of the side, but he has enough talent to become a regular if he has a big summer, which from what I've read so far he is looking very good.

A lot of players have played under 100games and haven’t been much chop and some play more Bc they mope around in a bottom side. Dow has only played a handful of games and isn’t anywhere near established. Some of the fringe players are way ahead of him. Kosi played nearly 50games in side full of shit kickers and kids and couldn’t get a game towards the end of the year as other kids went passed him. So he’s not AFL quality unless he can do a Lazarus.
Your line of thinking is the Dimma and Mini model which relies on the past still being in the future and continuing to play mates and new rejects. We just have to bite the bullet and play the kids as we know the golden oldies and rejects lead to big losses. We need to see who’s worth persisting with and who’s not Otherwise the list becomes stale and stagnant.
if Kmac, JGTi, Grimes, Pickett, Kosi, Naismith are getting games then we are in trouble.
If coaches think like you that players are a lock then they should hand in their resignation as that’s a recipe for disaster.

 

[_RT_]

A lot of players have played under 100games and haven’t been much chop and some play more Bc they mope around in a bottom side. Dow has only played a handful of games and isn’t anywhere near established. Some of the fringe players are way ahead of him. Kosi played nearly 50games in side full of s**t kickers and kids and couldn’t get a game towards the end of the year as other kids went passed him. So he’s not AFL quality unless he can do a Lazarus.
Your line of thinking is the Dimma and Mini model which relies on the past still being in the future and continuing to play mates and new rejects. We just have to bite the bullet and play the kids as we know the golden oldies and rejects lead to big losses. We need to see who’s worth persisting with and who’s not Otherwise the list becomes stale and stagnant.
if Kmac, JGTi, Grimes, Pickett, Kosi, Naismith are getting games then we are in trouble.
If coaches think like you that players are a lock then they should hand in their resignation as that’s a recipe for disaster.

Which fringe players are way ahead of Dow?

Goals in first 48 games:
Koschitzke 54
Lynch 57
Jack Riewoldt 59

The difference being that Koschitzke played a lot more footy as a defender than Jack & Tom did over those first 48 games. Sure he played a lot of VFL footy last year at Hawthorn, but he played more than 50% of the season in their senior side.

May be worthwhile having another look at the side that I've named as Koschitzke is the only player I've named that you said shouldn't be playing, while I have plenty of fringe players being given opportunity, something that never really happened under Hardwick or McQualter unless their hands were forced with injury. BTW of the 12 players I've named as locks, who else apart from Nankervis and Hopper don't you agree with?

 

[TigerImposter]

Which fringe players are way ahead of Dow?

Goals in first 48 games:
Koschitzke 54
Lynch 57
Jack Riewoldt 59

The difference being that Koschitzke played a lot more footy as a defender than Jack & Tom did over those first 48 games. Sure he played a lot of VFL footy last year at Hawthorn, but he played more than 50% of the season in their senior side.

May be worthwhile having another look at the side that I've named as Koschitzke is the only player I've named that you said shouldn't be playing, while I have plenty of fringe players being given opportunity, something that never really happened under Hardwick or McQualter unless their hands were forced with injury. BTW of the 12 players I've named as locks, who else apart from Nankervis and Hopper don't you agree with?

Kosi dropped off and kicked 27 goals in 2021. He was playing vfl at the end of the season, so I’m not going there anymore .
Clarke, Brown, MRJ, Banks, Trezise, Bauer , Coulthard all have more upside than Dow. No player are locks bc form can drop off and the best performing 23 should always be picked. Players should not be picked bc of their name , especially like this season where they were underperforming. It’s not who the player is, but what the player is doing on the field and hopefully not just running millions of km and guarding space.

 

[_RT_]

Kosi dropped off and kicked 27 goals in 2021. He was playing vfl at the end of the season, so I’m not going there anymore .
Clarke, Brown, MRJ, Banks, Trezise, Bauer , Coulthard all have more upside than Dow. No player are locks bc form can drop off and the best performing 23 should always be picked. Players should not be picked bc of their name , especially like this season where they were underperforming. It’s not who the player is, but what the player is doing on the field and hopefully not just running millions of km and guarding space.

Koschitzke played the last 4 games of the season & 9 of the last 14 in the seniors. Maybe try again.

There is a difference in having more upside and being more proven at the level. I agree some of those you named have more upside, but none of them are more proven at the level than Dow IMO especially as part of our next generation midfield.

Of the 12 players I named as locks who doesn't get picked if everyone is fit and in form? Of course if form drops away and a younger player is playing better they should get selected ahead of the lock and I've never suggested any different.

 

[TigerImposter]

Koschitzke played the last 4 games of the season & 9 of the last 14 in the seniors. Maybe try again.

There is a difference in having more upside and being more proven at the level. I agree some of those you named have more upside, but none of them are more proven at the level than Dow IMO especially as part of our next generation midfield.

Of the 12 players I named as locks who doesn't get picked if everyone is fit and in form? Of course if form drops away and a younger player is playing better they should get selected ahead of the lock and I've never suggested any different.

He played 12 games for the season. As I said enough on this bloke unless he can cement a spot permanently. Nobody is a lock unless they are performing and that should be obvious. He was gifted games bc they were having a last look at him to see if he was worth persevering with and results showed he was ordinary and they traded him out. Grundy struggled to get a game for Melbourne yet at the beginning of the year Melbourne fans had him like the god and saviour for Gawn . He was a massive flop in the end.

 

[TheOptimum18]

B: Balta Young Vlastuin
HB: Baker Gibcus Short
C: D.Rioli Hopper Banks
HF: Martin Koschitzke Bolton
F: Cumberland Lynch Coulthard
R: Nankervis Taranto Ross
INT: Broad Dow Clarke Trezise Brown

Don't necessarily mind this.

One think I would change is whether or not you need all 4 of Balta, Young, Gibcus and Broad in the one team. In my opinion, there's only a handful of teams where you would need 4 key def types in the one team. One would be a team like the Bulldogs who play 3 genuine key fwds + the resting ruck, or if you play a team like GWS where they have 2 genuine key fwds + the resting ruck + Toby Greene.

Broad would take one of the key fwds in scenario one, and would take the Toby Greene type player in scenario 2.

Otherwise, I think you can manage most other teams with just 3 key def types, which would be Balta, Young/Gibcus/Miller (I'm still holding out hope) and Broad for me.

 

[wegetpumped]

Don't necessarily mind this.

One think I would change is whether or not you need all 4 of Balta, Young, Gibcus and Broad in the one team. In my opinion, there's only a handful of teams where you would need 4 key def types in the one team. One would be a team like the Bulldogs who play 3 genuine key fwds + the resting ruck, or if you play a team like GWS where they have 2 genuine key fwds + the resting ruck + Toby Greene.

Broad would take one of the key fwds in scenario one, and would take the Toby Greene type player in scenario 2.

Otherwise, I think you can manage most other teams with just 3 key def types, which would be Balta, Young/Gibcus/Miller (I'm still holding out hope) and Broad for me.

Humm clubs would wet their pants if they had 3 or 4 quality genuine key players in any position. That list looks really good with quality and youth all around but as we know it won't happen even with a new coach as they tend to play safe rather than going for it. Also Bayer forgot his name lol for me is the one I LOOK FORWARD TO THE MOST.

 

[sregit]

I know your post is not referenced to me but thought I'd give my thoughts.

Do you think the Pies have an outstanding list? Their system/structure won them the flag. A combined total of 12 points in finals, that's not a club that's ahead of the pack. Anyone with half a brain would say had the Dees had a full forward they would have beaten them, 69 inside 50's to 37 pretty much sums up that assertion. But dees not smart enough to target a star FF and went for Grundy instead and this came back to haunt them.
GWS got shafted in that last qtr. This is not making excuses but stating it as it is.

That won't happen again in 2024 for the pies, book mark this comment. I'm 2 from 2 atm said Dees won't win a dynasty after their 2021 flag, while many were saying the opposite I was saying they do not offer anything more that makes them stand out like the dynasty Hawks (precision foot kills) and Tigers (all over the ground pressure for 4 qtrs and our exciting forward handball game).
The last two years out in straight sets.

Cats I said they would be lucky to make finals, players got their ultimate reward, and their list one year older, correct again.

Pies 2nd oldest list and everyone will be coming for them in 2024. Will still make finals but I'll call it now they won't win it again.

People have short memories, the pies finished 17th in 2021 and the media were saying they needed to rebuild, blah blah blah. They get a new coach, players invigorated, and new Tigers game plan and they make the top 4 in 2022 and then will the flag this year.

GWS looked average last year didn't play finals, get a new coach in Kingsley, players invigorated, tigers game plan, and playoff in a prelim, 1 point off a GF

Most of us watching this year were gobsmacked that the game plan was all over the place, to many players being gifted games, players coasting, injuries to key players didn't help too etc

Tigers at full strength imho can match it with any team. The thing for me is will the game plan which will have a mix of tigers and dees put us back in finals or hypothetically speaking top 4/6 contention. Players from what I am hearing are rejuvenated under Yze. So a new game plan and players hungry again under a new coach is what we will all be waiting to see. I do believe we will play finals, how far we can go remains to be seen but happy to see the new era/journey under Yze.

I do not think Collingwood have an outstanding list, however, I do think it is better positioned than ours presently to compete at the pointy end of the season.

 

[Nicho50]

Broad Balta Vlastin
Rioli Gibcus Short
McIntosh Martin Ross
Coulthard Lynch Rioli
Ryan Kossie Cumberland
Nank Bolton Tarranto
Hopper Grimes Graham Banks/Clarke

Probably missed a few but I went with 3 key forward targets could easily take Ryan out for Clarke

Wouldn’t mind seeing Naismith have a crack at second ruck spot also and see what he’s got.

 

[sawyer]

Broad Balta Vlas
Rioli Gibcus Short
Banks Taranto Ross
Martin Lynch Rioli
Coultard Koz Clarke
Nank Bolton Hopper
Baker Dow Ryan Graham

 

[_RT_]

He played 12 games for the season. As I said enough on this bloke unless he can cement a spot permanently. Nobody is a lock unless they are performing and that should be obvious. He was gifted games bc they were having a last look at him to see if he was worth persevering with and results showed he was ordinary and they traded him out. Grundy struggled to get a game for Melbourne yet at the beginning of the year Melbourne fans had him like the god and saviour for Gawn . He was a massive flop in the end.

Try again.

Hawthorn offered Koschitzke a new deal before he requested a trade to us, so they were happy to keep him.

As for Grundy & Gawn, the error there was Melbourne thinking they could take 2 genuine number 1 rucks and make 1 of them a KPF. That's why it failed, not because Grundy is no good as a player.

 

[Grrr]

Kosi dropped off and kicked 27 goals in 2021. He was playing vfl at the end of the season, so I’m not going there anymore .
Clarke, Brown, MRJ, Banks, Trezise, Bauer , Coulthard all have more upside than Dow. No player are locks bc form can drop off and the best performing 23 should always be picked. Players should not be picked bc of their name , especially like this season where they were underperforming. It’s not who the player is, but what the player is doing on the field and hopefully not just running millions of km and guarding space.

None of those players mentioned play inside mid, in fact none play midfield. For me Dow is really important. If he comes good, which he did when he played those last 3 games, was in our best in two of them, then our speed around the pack problem is half solved.

Dow is hard to collar. Great step and lateral movement and very quick hands. If he comes on we won't need Bolton to give our midfield the speed it lacks, so he can be used like Martin, where he is needed.

He was not ready when he played last season. Not big enough and needed a good season in the VFL to play like a man and not a boy. He was good and consistent in the VFL and that translated to AFL when finally given a run of games in the middle. Previously he spent more time on the flank than the middle. Hopefully the confidence he got late in the season will set him up this year, and hopefully he's added a couple of kg's.

 

[TigerImposter]

Try again.

Hawthorn offered Koschitzke a new deal before he requested a trade to us, so they were happy to keep him.

As for Grundy & Gawn, the error there was Melbourne thinking they could take 2 genuine number 1 rucks and make 1 of them a KPF. That's why it failed, not because Grundy is no good as a player.

yeah and worth peanuts and no guarantees of a game. . He still only played 12 games and i'm not expecting much
Grundy was terrible.

 

[TigerImposter]

None of those players mentioned play inside mid, in fact none play midfield. For me Dow is really important. If he comes good, which he did when he played those last 3 games, was in our best in two of them, then our speed around the pack problem is half solved.

Dow is hard to collar. Great step and lateral movement and very quick hands. If he comes on we won't need Bolton to give our midfield the speed it lacks, so he can be used like Martin, where he is needed.

He was not ready when he played last season. Not big enough and needed a good season in the VFL to play like a man and not a boy. He was good and consistent in the VFL and that translated to AFL when finally given a run of games in the middle. Previously he spent more time on the flank than the middle. Hopefully the confidence he got late in the season will set him up this year, and hopefully he's added a couple of kg's.

i don't see Dow quick either by mind or legs. His last 3 games were ok , but nothing to right home about. We need MRJ And Sonsie to step up in the midfield as they to me have hurt factor . Dow is a poor man Jack Ross.

 

[RockJobster0312]

What I think will happen

Grimes Young* Balta
Short Rioli Vlastuin
McIntosh Prestia Ross
Martin Lynch Graham
Baker Kosi Bolton
Nank Taranto Hopper

INT: Naismith Broad Cumberland Pickett
SUB: Ralphsmith

* Replace for Gibcus when fit

What I would like to see

Gibcus Young Vlastuin
Rioli Balta Brown
Short Prestia Ross
Martin Lynch Baker
Bolton Kosi Cumberland
Nank Taranto Hopper

INT: Broad Banks Sonsie Ryan

SUB: Coulthard.

 

[energyquant]

Calling it now. This will be the year of Jack Ross

5

Jack Ross

Age

24

Ht

187cm

Wt

87kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.2

4star

K

7.8

3star

HB

8.4

5star

M

2.2

2star

T

2.7

4star

CL

3.0

4star

D

13.7

3star

K

6.7

3star

HB

7.0

4star

M

1.7

2star

T

1.7

3star

CL

2.0

4star

D

17.8

5star

K

8.0

3star

HB

9.8

5star

M

2.6

3star

T

2.8

5star

CL

3.0

5star

. Will take one of the wings and will play some games on the ball. Will be one of those players Richmond supporters love, particularly when opposition supporters start yelling in frustration "who's on #5?"

 

[sregit]

Broad Balta Vlastin
Rioli Gibcus Short
McIntosh Martin Ross
Coulthard Lynch Rioli
Ryan Kossie Cumberland
Nank Bolton Tarranto
Hopper Grimes Graham Banks/Clarke

Probably missed a few but I went with 3 key forward targets could easily take Ryan out for Clarke

Wouldn’t mind seeing Naismith have a crack at second ruck spot also and see what he’s got.

Any side with MRJ in it is very ordinary.

 

[tiger_tough]

Calling it now. This will be the year of Jack Ross

5

Jack Ross

Age

24

Ht

187cm

Wt

87kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.2

4star

K

7.8

3star

HB

8.4

5star

M

2.2

2star

T

2.7

4star

CL

3.0

4star

D

13.7

3star

K

6.7

3star

HB

7.0

4star

M

1.7

2star

T

1.7

3star

CL

2.0

4star

D

17.8

5star

K

8.0

3star

HB

9.8

5star

M

2.6

3star

T

2.8

5star

CL

3.0

5star

. Will take one of the wings and will play some games on the ball. Will be one of those players Richmond supporters love, particularly when opposition supporters start yelling in frustration "who's on #5?"

Rather see him in the midfield.

 

[sregit]

Grimes* Balta Baker
Broad Vlastuin Brown
Banks Dusty Short
D Rioli Gibcus Hopper
Kossi@ Lynch Clarke
Nank Bolton Tarranto

Interchange from:
Prestia Young* Graham Ross McIntosh Dow Campbell Ryan@ Naismith@ Coulthard Sonsie

Captain: Dusty
Vice Captains: D Rioli, Baker

Need another crumbing forward.
Like to see more youth gradually introduced into the side.
Phase out Grimes & McIntosh.
Hopefully at least one of our draftees from the last two years comes on.
Play MRJ Midfield in the reserves and if he doesn’t step up - bye bye.
I don’t rate Cumberland.

 

[Grrr]

i don't see Dow quick either by mind or legs. His last 3 games were ok , but nothing to right home about. We need MRJ And Sonsie to step up in the midfield as they to me have hurt factor . Dow is a poor man Jack Ross.

Dow is very quick laterally, which is a great trait for an inside mid. He extracted himself from the traffic really well in those three games and opened up play. Has a lot of work to do defensively and to be more consistent during matches, but that should come.

Agree in regard to Sonsie. I'd like to see him on a wing this season because he is going to find it hard getting games in the middle, unless Dow goes backwards, and he is a natural running accumulator. Centre mid when Prestia goes, but he needs games this year.

 

[tora tora tora]

i don't see Dow quick either by mind or legs. His last 3 games were ok , but nothing to right home about. We need MRJ And Sonsie to step up in the midfield as they to me have hurt factor . Dow is a poor man Jack Ross.

Sonsie has played well at the level as a mid. And could line up in the middle post suspension.
Dow is ahead of hopper in my 22.

MRJ is small fwd depth. Barely at the level