Best I've seen

[Gets!]

Roo not in there? One of the top 3 midfielders over the past 20 years?

 

[footyhead18]

Good effort but top 3 are easy for me and Vossy not in it.
1 King Carey : Consistent, tough and most influential ever
2 Ablett (GOD) : His best better than anyones but not as consistent as the King
3 Hird (Pretty Boy) : I hate Ess but this bloke when on the park is an awesome player.

 

[skylark18]

john greening would be in my 50.
if not for the cowardly blow tht almost killed him he would no doubt have won brownlows,played 10 more yrs and been a monty for the legends section of the hall of fame.

but he showed enough in the 100 games he did play some extraordinary talent.

Totally agree...would be in my top 5 fav players of all time.

Hird is a great player , but im more of a Banger fan , out and out champ for most of his 18 yrs in the game.
Dont get me wrong....Hird IS a champ , maybe he'll be ahead of Harvs in my opinion in few years.

 

[beatnik]

nice work - thought I'd add a few more 'best I've seens':

best half back line...

Mckenna - Jakovich - Worsfold

best full back line...

C Johnson - Michael - D White

best goal-to-goal lines...

mal michael - leppa - voss - brown - lynch

langford - mew - ayres - dermie - dunstall

macintosh - jakovich - matera - langdon - sumich

best midfields i've ever seen...

voss, black, aker, power, lappin, mcrae, hart, b scott (3 flags)

heady, kemp, matera, mainwaring, turley, waterman, pyke, hart, lewis (2 flags)

cousens, judd, kerr, embley, braun, fletcher, stenglein, wooden (1 GF)

best ruck combos...

madden/salmon

rehn/pittman

charman/keating

seaby/cox

feel free to add/remove...

peace

 

[Cicatriz]

no need to be so critical, no.6 out of 50 is pretty damn good. You think about the 5 above him, do you think they are not as good as ablett?

No, no I don't think the five above him are as good as Ablett. These are my reasons.
Voss- A quality player. If he jumped on backs for amazing marks, kicked huge amounts of freakish goals on either foot et al he would be number one.

Lockett- A quality player. One dimensional. All he could do was roam forward and kick goals. This of course is no mean feet and certainly not a criticism. Ablett, however was an all round player who could out sprint all players down the wing, win the ball in the guts and also kick the goals.

Carey- Just not as freakish, just not as spectacular. Could do it all. Forward, back, in the centre. I lived in Arden St. for years and used to go and watch him train. Number 2 in my books.

Dunstall- Not nearly as good as Lockett.

Hird- Not as good as Voss

 

[Helix]

No, no I don't think the five above him are as good as Ablett. These are my reasons.
Voss- A quality player. If he jumped on backs for amazing marks, kicked huge amounts of freakish goals on either foot et al he would be number one.

Tsk. If Ablett jumped on an impossible to win ball and fed out a freakish handball he might be as good as Voss. Tackling, long goals, Voss does it all.

Lockett- A quality player. One dimensional. All he could do was roam forward and kick goals. This of course is no mean feet and certainly not a criticism. Ablett, however was an all round player who could out sprint all players down the wing, win the ball in the guts and also kick the goals.

Lockett kicked more goals. He took more marks. He was better than Ablett.

Carey- Just not as freakish, just not as spectacular. Could do it all. Forward, back, in the centre. I lived in Arden St. for years and used to go and watch him train. Number 2 in my books.

Now you are just on drugs. Was the best in the hardest position. Way better player than Ablett.

 

[The Magenius]

In 20 yrs of watching I can honestly say Chris Judd is the best I have seen. The guy is a freak, I am just fortunate that he also plays for the team I support, but if he were to leave I would still watch his match every week. He is simply unbeleviable. His skill is unsurpassed in the game.

Ok maybe I'm not answering the question exactly, but you know what I mean.

 

[HiHoEverybody]

No chance. Take out Judd, does not deserve to be recognised as the best yet. Hird at 5, carey at 2.

Agreed! The King has to be higher than Harvey and Hird and Buckley.

 

[HiHoEverybody]

In 20 yrs of watching I can honestly say Chris Judd is the best I have seen. The guy is a freak, I am just fortunate that he also plays for the team I support, but if he were to leave I would still watch his match every week. He is simply unbeleviable. His skill is unsurpassed in the game.

Ok maybe I'm not answering the question exactly, but you know what I mean.

Theres just no way Judd is up with Ablett, Carey, Lockett, Hird etc... not yet anyway. I love watching Judd and I think hes a absolute gun but i couldnt put him above of these guys

 

[The Magenius]

Theres just no way Judd is up with Ablett, Carey, Lockett, Hird etc... not yet anyway. I love watching Judd and I think hes a absolute gun but i couldnt put him above of these guys

In terms of football skills. I would.

Time is the only thing not on Judds side, in terms of discussions like these. He is still only 22.

 

[Crow-mosone]

In terms of football skills. I would.

Time is the only thing not on Judds side, in terms of discussions like these. He is still only 22.

which is it, is he good enough to be listed with these guys or is it on skillls? , As an overall player? certainly not yet, and probably never.

Is it just based on skills, and then are his skills on a par with an Ablett, Jarman, Daicos, Rhysjones? no.

Chris Judd is a very, very good player. But he has no place in a best of xx years debate, and frankly we won't know for another 5 of so years where he will fit in his own generation.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Ablett was far more skilled than Judd. Judd's skill is in reading the play and using his acceleration to advantage. Ablett's skill was jumping in the air onto someone's head, marking the ball with his pinky and kicking a goal with his third leg.

 

[Crow-mosone]

Ablett was far more skilled than Judd. Judd's skill is in reading the play and using his acceleration to advantage. Ablett's skill was jumping in the air onto someone's head, marking the ball with his pinky and kicking a goal with his third leg.

I agree absolutely. Judd's thing is hitting the pack, and the fall of the ball at full speed; it's certainly a skill but it doesn't make him Ablett or Jarman.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

It's also so difficult to compare eras of players. When Ablett and Jarman were ripping new ones, there were plenty of other palyers you could name alongside them who would have "skill levels" greater than current day players. Why is this?

Obviously the pace of the game has changed, new strategies have emerged, and the talent-pool is a lot deeper now the National game has developed. The work ethic and capability of less gifted players has taken over. The same freedom and tolerance is not given to players that it once was.

Perhaps in comparison to footballers of their own era, Judd is just as brilliant as Ablett. But there are some things we haven't seen since he left the game and I can't see Chris Judd pulling them off

 

[Hollow Knight]

Ablett > Daylight.

Ablett is an alien who was dropped off here in a spaceship to help our game of football evolve.

 

[Crow-mosone]

It's also so difficult to compare eras of players. When Ablett and Jarman were ripping new ones, there were plenty of other palyers you could name alongside them who would have "skill levels" greater than current day players. Why is this?

Obviously the pace of the game has changed, new strategies have emerged, and the talent-pool is a lot deeper now the National game has developed. The work ethic and capability of less gifted players has taken over. The same freedom and tolerance is not given to players that it once was.

Perhaps in comparison to footballers of their own era, Judd is just as brilliant as Ablett. But there are some things we haven't seen since he left the game and I can't see Chris Judd pulling them off

you might well be right. perhaps it is evolution of the game, but in Judd's case I see this as a tactic more than a skill - at this stage. in that he misses some and makes some, and it seems like a tactic to do this. One that works very well for him, but the thing will be how this gets combatted in future times, if it is a tactic you would expect a tagger to figure him out (and a hard tag is something he has always struggled with) if it is purely a skill then you'd expect that will endure.

I think the emphasis on defensive football, and tactics, will as you say, perhaps give rise to new skills, and render some obsolete. Much as certain areas of ruckwork are now a thing of the past.

 

[smeagol_17]

It's just a pity that Abletts personal life nearly overshadowed his skill of football, look it took the AFL a bloody long time to put him in the Hall of Fame.

 

[La Vache]

Ablett is given PLENTY of credit I would've thought. He'd be a certain top 10 from anyone who saw him play. The constant reference to 89. The obsession with his kids. The nickname of God etc.

He's in the hall of fame now anyway. And it's very reasonable that he was held responsible for his actions those years ago. But at the same time most would want to see him come out the other end. Because Gary Ablett = Good for football

 

[La Vache]

Updated a year later for fun.
Major changes are in bold

West and Harvey have risen. A few new faces.

1. Michael Voss - BEST I'VE SEEN
2. Tony Lockett - The most unstoppable/ dominant player.
3. Wayne Carey - Regularly tore us to pieces, legend.
4. Jason Dunstall - Never let me down.
5. Hird - Smartest player I've seen
6. Ablett - Most gifted player ever, won't forget 89 final series, I was only 8.
7. Buckley - Elite since game no. 1. Has played probably 10 shockers ever.
8. D Jarman - Ugly and fat, and yet so beautiful. 2nd to Ablett in talent.
9. G Williams - See above. Personifies "ball-magnet".
10. R Harvey - Champion. Impossible to tackle, tireless.
11. J Platten - BOG in my first ever match. Fast, hard, skilled, fair.
12. P Matera - If I could clone someone for Hawthorn 2006, it's him.
13. SOS - Got away with murder, and good on him. FB never had it so tough.
14. G Ayres - Ultimate big-game player. Was Hawthorns "barometer".
15. D Brereton - Our match-winner. Always found a way to turn a game.
16. S Kernahan - Rock-solid, magnificent leader. His battles with Langford were epic.
17. C Judd - Getting even better.
18. P Kelly - Honest.
19. G Jakovich - Best CHB I've seen by quite a way. Brick wall.
20. C Langford - Not as fiendish as Silvagni. See Kernahan.
21. N Winmar - Would go to Moorabin just to see he and plugger.
22. G McKenna - That was some backline. McKenna = best hbf in 20 years.
23. A McLeod - Kicked winning goal vs us in first game. 98 finals series second only to Ablett 89.
24. P Roos - Never saw him play a bad one. Stood out in some crap teams.
25. S Leowe - Underated. Best mark in my time. How were the saints so rubbish??
26. P Daicos - Good lord, what was going on with this fella?
27. S Black - 03 GF was sensational. Highly decorated.
28. S West - Seriously rate this guy. Playing best footy of career.
29. Archer - King of the "team-lifter".
30. M Long - played like a ten year old, without a care in the world.
31. A McKay - Never spoken of anymore. Why? Was sensational.
32. Kouta - For a few seasons there, was best in the league.
33. C Grant - Amazing strength and agility. LOYAL.
34. Leppitsch - Ultimate attacking backman. Dominated games.
35. S Crawford - pretty much a lone hand for a the best part of a decade.
36. D Millane - I wanted to play like him. Would have captained Maggies.
37. Aker - Outrageous talent. Good For Football.
38. C Bradley - So what if he was a receiver, did it better than just about anyone else.
39. G Hocking - tough, clean, hated him.
40. Wanganeen - Most think he's overrated. Not I.
41. G Lyon - See Wanganeen.
42. S Rehn - Best tap-ruckman. Smart footballer.
43. Ratten - Bradley must have loved this guy.
44. Tredrea - See 40,41. Has torn us apart enough times for me to know better.
45. Pavlich - AA playing as a backman, midfielder, and now forward. Wow.
46. B Hall - Has won a premiership and proved himself a top three player in the league
47. M Riccuito - Forgot him last time
48. P Bell - Inspirational, puts some teammates to shame.
49. J Clement - Best backman of the past five years.
50. M Richardson - Now realise how much I admire this bloke.

 

[MarkT]

I couldn’t do this in a million years. Well maybe a million. I could argue for against numerous players and/or the order but what’s the point. That is a great list of names.

FWIW the best Pie I saw was Daicos. Hard to put anyone ahead of Buckley in most peoples eyes but Daicos did things no one else could do every week and made the definitive inconsistent role a weekly weapon over numerous years interspersed with midfield brilliance including a B&F as a midfielder in spite of knee and stress facture injuries robbing him of some of his prime years.

Millane may be lucky to be on the list purely because he didn’t play another 4 or 5 years like most of the list did. The 1990 side died with Darren Millane.

I also think it is premature to include Judd. I’m not arguing he will be a deserving addition down the track but he may never play again from tomorrow and he wouldn’t be on the list in time.

Take those comments with a grain of salt. Good effort.

 

[MarkT]

This thread has given me a thought. Imagine each club's best side over that time against each other. How much would you pay for a seasons ticket?

 

[Helix]

This thread has given me a thought. Imagine each club's best side over that time against each other. How much would you pay for a seasons ticket?

Yes, that would be good. Very good. No time to get a hot dog.

 

[Chewy]

Nice post, La Vache. So many champions. So many memories.

What a great game we have here in Oz. We get to see players of this ilk most weekends for $18. None of them bugger off to USA or Real Madrid for more money.

Paul Kelly doesn't deserve to be picked at #17. He was a great player but...

Kelly was a fricken superstar and undervalued by most people who overemphasized his rough edges. What he used to do in the packs, week in, week out was unbelievable. He was an amazing athlete who had no fear. One of my favourite players of all time.

From 1995-1998 when all the talk was about Carey, Hird and Buckley, this little fella quietly eclipsed them all, in my opinion, with a minimum of fanfare. Amazing tackles, incredible steals, headlong dives on the ball under the on-rushing packs then the instant bounce to his feet, huge marks over packs, into packs with the flight of the ball, team-lifting goals.

He was truly an inspiration to his teammates and carried them on his back.

 

[Chewy]

Where's Akermanis? He should be in there somewhere. The man is a genuis. He is like Daicos on amphetamines. He delivers nearly every time he sets foot on the field. He was the 2nd best footballer in those Lions' premierships. Some people called him a receiver - Some people know nothing. He was a far better back pocket than Wanganeen, then made the switch to midfield and half forward and just killed 'em for the next 6 years.

In 20 yrs of watching I can honestly say....you know what I mean.

Yeah, yeah. We know.

Ablett is an alien....

He was amazing alright. However there were flaws in his game which prevent him from being placed on his own at number one. There were other champions who had a more complete grasp of what was required in a team sense. Too many of Gazza's fans gloss over this. I don't know how you can. Footy is a team game. This is why blokes like Voss are the best.

For purely individual feats and as an attacking weapon, Ablett was the best. But for the total package on the field, there are other players more deserving of the "best ever" tag, in my opinion.

 

[jimmy.h]

The best 50 players I've seen.

No real criteria. But I've picked players who have had consistent careers or 3 brilliant seasons minimum. Thus very good performers have missed out.

I started following footy in 87, so since then here they are...

Feel free to tear this list apart, or even give us yours if you can be bothered. Two family members did it aswell and it was fairly different for both.

1. Michael Voss - BEST I'VE SEEN
2. Tony Lockett - The most unstoppable/ dominant player.
3. Wayne Carey - Regularly tore us to pieces, legend.
4. Jason Dunstall - Never let me down.
5. Hird - Smartest player I've seen
6. Ablett - Most gifted player ever, won't forget 89 final series, I was only
7. Buckley - Elite since game no. 1. Has played probably 10 shockers ever.
8. D Jarman - Ugly and fat, and yet so beautiful. 2nd to Ablett in talent.
9. G Williams - See above. Personifies "ball-magnet".
10. J Platten - BOG in my first ever match. Fast, hard, skilled, fair.
11. R Harvey - Champion. Impossible to tackle, tireless.
12. P Matera - If I could clone someone for Hawthorn 2006, it's him.
13. SOS - Got away with murder, and good on him. FB never had it so tough.
14. G Ayres - Ultimate big-game player. Was Hawthorns "barometer".
15. D Brereton - Our match-winner. Always found a way to turn a game.
16. S Kernahan - Rock-solid, magnificent leader. His battles with Langford were epic.
17. P Kelly - Honest.
18. G Jakovich - Best CHB I've seen by quite a way. Brick wall.
19. C Langford - Not as fiendish as Silvagni. See Kernahan.
20. N Winmar - Would go to Moorabin just to see he and plugger.
21. G McKenna - That was some backline. McKenna = best hbf in 20 years.
22. A McLeod - Kicked winning goal vs us in first game. 98 finals series second only to Ablett 89.
23. P Roos - Never saw him play a bad one. Stood out in some crap teams.
24. S Leowe - Underated. Best mark in my time. How were the saints so rubbish??
25. P Daicos - Good lord, what was going on with this fella?
26. S Black - 03 GF was sensational. Highly decorated.
27. Archer - King of the "team-lifter".
28. C Judd - Just cannot believe this guy.
29. M Long - played like a ten year old, without a care in the world.
30. A McKay - Never spoken of anymore. Why? Was sensational.
31. Kouta - For a few seasons there, was best in the league.
32. C Grant - Amazing strength and agility. LOYAL.
33. Leppitsch - Ultimate attacking backman. Dominated games.
34. S Crawford - pretty much a lone hand for a the best part of a decade.
35. D Millane - I wanted to play like him. Would have captained Maggies.
36. Aker - Outrageous talent. Good For Football.
37. G Hocking - tough, clean, hated him.
38. C Bradley - So what if he was a receiver, did it better than just about anyone else.
39. S West - Seriously rate this guy.
40. Wanganeen - Most think he's overrated. Not I.
41. G Lyon - See Wanganeen.
42. S Rehn - Best tap-ruckman. Smart footballer.
43. Ratten - Bradley must have loved this guy.
44. Tredrea - See 40,41. Has torn us apart enough times for me to know better.
45. Pavlich - AA playing as a backman, midfielder, and now forward. Wow.
46. P Salmon - No players have made the switch from forward to ruck with the success of Salmon. Brilliant record.
47. P Bell - Inspirational, puts some teammates to shame.
48. P Dean - Blues fans must pine for this bloke.
49. M McGuane - The anti-footballer.
50. W Schwass - Played footy at flat-stick, Better than Stevens.

Hird should not be ahead of Ablett. Personally I would have Ablett at 1 but could understand Carey and Lockett ahead of him and maybe Voss. The guy kicked 1000 goals despite playing most of his career on a wing/forward flank. He almsot single handedly won a grand final and managed to kick 100 goals three times as a 30 year old. Lockett could kick more goals but did not have the multi dimensions of Abletts game.