Best Medium Pace Bowler Of All Time?

[krisholio14]

Yep...

Barnes is widely regarded to be one of the best bowlers of all time. The reason he doesn't get that much recognition is because he played at the turn of the century. That, and he played a lot of his cricket (by choice) in the Lancashire League rather than FC cricket.

It's also difficult to really determine what he bowled. He's sometimes described as a spin bowler, and sometimes described as a pace bowler. Alternatively, I've heard him called a "fast" spin bowler... but I suspect the term "fast" is relative. ie, he was a lot faster than a tradition spin bowler, but very likely to be slower than a true fast bowler.

The other guy to consider is George Lohmann. He's generally described as being medium-fast. But at the same time, I've read that his pace was considered fairly gentle when compared against his contemporaries -- to me, that implies he was probably closer to being medium pace.

Derek Underwood

 

[DrVanNostrand]

Pommie Mbangwa played as a specialist quick, while always operating in the 115-125km/h range. Seems like a nice guy.

Paul Collingwood was never the worst. Nor Scotty "Pig" Styris. Chris Harris, of course, is the GOAT of dibbly dobblies.

 

[Carl Hooper]

Andrew Symonds.

Haha yes!

Or Gary Sobers if we are being real my ninjas.

 

[ioppolo]

Pommie Mbangwa played as a specialist quick, while always operating in the 115-125km/h range. Seems like a nice guy.

Paul Collingwood was never the worst. Nor Scotty "Pig" Styris. Chris Harris, of course, is the GOAT of dibbly dobblies.

How Styris got as many wickets as he did I'll never know. Just put it there and hoped the batsman would misread/mistime it.

 

[footyfan1978]

Miller is an interesting one. Picked as a spinner but could bowl medium pace.
Adam Dale was genuine medium pace bowler around that time.
Reiffel when he played certainly quality medium pace bowler.

Not many other than those guys played more than a Test or two in last couple of decades that would be genuine medium pace.
Looking backwards these are a few I can identify.
Someone said Copeland but barely remember him so not sure of his pace.
Faulkner has played one Test and certainly medium pace but probably picked more as an allrounder than a frontline bowler in single game he played. Andrew McDonald played a few games in 2009.
Nathan Bracken a few Tests.
Greg Campbell was in an ordinary era.
Tom Moody but picked for his batting.
Tony Dodemaide.
Simon Davis
Dave Gilbert
Steve Waugh was picked as an allrounder in early Tests.
and Simon O'Donnell like Faulker picked mainly as an allrounder for not many Tests.
John Macguire I can't recall his pace but may have been a medium pacer. Think he ended up going on South Africa rebel tour.
Terry Alderman.
Trevor Laughlin
Mick Malone and Geoff Dymock.
Gary Gilmour and Max Walker
Any before that I never saw bowl myself.

Of note in that lot, in terms of quality Reiffel, Alderman and Dymock the ones I saw in more than just a few Tests and open the bowling at times.
I would rate Terry Alderman the best medium pace bowler in my time of watching Australian cricket. Harder to say for overseas.
Hard to go past guys like Ian Botham and Kapil Dev for all time. I really have less knowledge of pace of bowlers well before my time so would not comment on those.

Just feels since the days of Reiffel and the one or two Test Adam Dale played we have tended to use batsmen that could bowl medium pace role such as Steve and Mark Waugh or Shane Watson when not injured. Andrew Symonds did a bit of it and as you say Colin Miller could bowl it but was picked primarily as an off spinner.

Now we have our new medium pace bowler to be tried out, Chadd Sayers going to New Zealand.

 

[Alcred76]

Phil Simmons from the West Indies was a very handy medium pacer.

 

[footyfan1978]

Phil Simmons from the West Indies was a very handy medium pacer.

Handy at best. Collis King was a better medium pacer for West Indies before the speed merchants dominated their bowling attack for a long , long time. Bravo was ok, took 5 wickets at Adelaide Oval from memory in a Test here a few years back.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

who's the pinhead that keeps saying 'pitched outside leg' despite it clearly pitching off and jagging back

Yes, I nearly raced off to get my eyes checked when he said that.

My opinion is, and always has been, that DRS is an unnecessary intrusion on the game. All this crap about half a ball, etc, is just bullshit. If it shows the ball is pitched in line, hitting in line and going on to hit the stumps, it's out. Simple as that.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

Guys, McGrath, Aldermann and Symonds AREN'T medium pacers.

How about Sarfraz Nawaz, he would have been close

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

Loved Funky.

Funky was a ripper bloke. He played grade cricket with my club Sturt in the SACA but had moved to Tassie before making the Test team. We were watching the Test from Adelaide on TV, Funky had made a few and just got out. We saw him go up the stairs and into the rooms. Almost straight away, the phone in our club rooms rang, I picked it up and it was Funky wanting to know how we were going!! How many guys would have done that?

 

[KiwiRoo]

How Styris got as many wickets as he did I'll never know. Just put it there and hoped the batsman would misread/mistime it.

he actually started his first class cricket as a bowler who batted 8,9,10. Wasn't the worse medium pacer going round either

 

[CrazyJoeFevola]

Sarfraz Nawaz or Chaminda Vaas in test cricket, if we are going by the definition of medium as a majority of balls under 130. In terms of medium pace 'craft' overall I'd say Ian Harvey.

EDIT: Sorry for the massive bump came up in a google search

 

[PhatBoy]

Didn’t bother reading back through it all but Vernon Philander is head and shoulders above everyone I’ve ever seen.

Vaasy was a fantastic bowler to be as effective as he was spending half his career on spinning wickets and he was a better bowler than Philander when nothing was happening but Vernon was simply THAT good when there was a bit of seam and swing, that he stands at the top for me.

 

[CrazyJoeFevola]

Didn’t bother reading back through it all but Vernon Philander is head and shoulders above everyone I’ve ever seen.

Vaasy was a fantastic bowler to be as effective as he was spending half his career on spinning wickets and he was a better bowler than Philander when nothing was happening but Vernon was simply THAT good when there was a bit of seam and swing, that he stands at the top for me.

Totally forgot the big truck Vern. Takes the mantle

 

[footyfan1978]

Sarfraz Nawaz or Chaminda Vaas in test cricket, if we are going by the definition of medium as a majority of balls under 130. In terms of medium pace 'craft' overall I'd say Ian Harvey.

EDIT: Sorry for the massive bump came up in a google search

Ian Harvey more a white ball type but I did love his style.
Alderman the guy I marvelled at the most in medium pace range but probably see him an outswing specialist in English conditions. There were guys in late 60's and into the 70's that were probably in same specialist bracket. Bob Massie well before my time but his debut was crazy to see on youtube.
Wonder about the South African medium pacers of the 60's and 70's. Not sure if Clive Rice was too quick to be considered medium pace, but when they were out of Test cricket he was a quality cricketer we never really saw enough. Mike Proctor too, but probably a bit above medium pace.

 

[CrazyJoeFevola]

Ian Harvey more a white ball type but I did love his style.
Alderman the guy I marvelled at the most in medium pace range but probably see him an outswing specialist in English conditions. There were guys in late 60's and into the 70's that were probably in same specialist bracket. Bob Massie well before my time but his debut was crazy to see on youtube.
Wonder about the South African medium pacers of the 60's and 70's. Not sure if Clive Rice was too quick to be considered medium pace, but when they were out of Test cricket he was a quality cricketer we never really saw enough. Mike Proctor too, but probably a bit above medium pace.

Rice and Especially Procter too fast to be considered medium pacers. Rice IMO right up there with the 'Big 4' all rounders of the 80s as a cricketer and Procter although earlier fits right in the same category.

 

[footyfan1978]

Rice and Especially Procter too fast to be considered medium pacers. Rice IMO right up there with the 'Big 4' all rounders of the 80s as a cricketer and Procter although earlier fits right in the same category.

Did you see Eddie Barlow too?
Was on World Series Cricket contracts but do not remember actually seeing him play. His was on McDonald's posters from memory so remember at least seeing him. Think he played in some team called The Cavaliers that played in regional centres around Australia whilst the main guys in team were in the actual WSC matches. I assume he was a veteran at the time and why I never saw him on tv matches at time.

 

[Power Raid]

Vern was one of those guys that made watching cricket amazing

 

[PhatBoy]

Vern was one of those guys that made watching cricket amazing

Absolutely it was like watching a seam bowling version of a mystery spinner

It’s why I was really disappointed we didn’t get to see much of Kyle Mayers bowling this summer because he genuinely has, physically anyway, all the attributes of Philander - he releases from the same ‘kiss the pitch’ trajectory, bowls at a pace where you can’t throw your hands at the ball and get away with it, swings it and seams it both ways. Now that’s only half the challenge and Philander’s quality lay in his ability to do all those things and put the ball where he wanted it and outthink batsmen.

It was a bit like a bowling version of someone like Shiv with the bat: just a totally different, death by a thousand cuts means of getting the job done

 

[Yoda_]

We're forgetting some genuine front line medium pacers here.

Mike Hussey, Damian Martyn, Ricky Ponting, Greg Blewett all operated in that low hundreds area. Not as quick as Matthew Wade but accurate enough to snaffle a wicket or two

 

[footyfan1978]

Crazy debut and weird how he played so few Tests.
Looking at video that only shows from keepers end in early 70's, it makes me think Terry Alderman tried to copy a similar bowling action a decade later.

 

[The hands of stone]

Ian Harvey more a white ball type but I did love his style.
Alderman the guy I marvelled at the most in medium pace range but probably see him an outswing specialist in English conditions. There were guys in late 60's and into the 70's that were probably in same specialist bracket. Bob Massie well before my time but his debut was crazy to see on youtube.
Wonder about the South African medium pacers of the 60's and 70's. Not sure if Clive Rice was too quick to be considered medium pace, but when they were out of Test cricket he was a quality cricketer we never really saw enough. Mike Proctor too, but probably a bit above medium pace.

Yep Harvey very hard to put in this . Operated between 120 with his slower stuff but his quicker stuff was into the mid 130s , had a very slippery bouncer and yorker .

 

[Partridge]

Did you see Eddie Barlow too?
Was on World Series Cricket contracts but do not remember actually seeing him play. His was on McDonald's posters from memory so remember at least seeing him. Think he played in some team called The Cavaliers that played in regional centres around Australia whilst the main guys in team were in the actual WSC matches. I assume he was a veteran at the time and why I never saw him on tv matches at time.

I remember seeing his face on the same posters. Just checked and he was born in 1940 so well and truly a veteran by WSC. Must have been able to play though - top test score of 201 (averaged 45, with 6 tons) and a not crap bowling average of 34. Ian Chappell has always said he was one of the most competitive players he'd ever come across.

 

[Partridge]

Yep...

Barnes is widely regarded to be one of the best bowlers of all time. The reason he doesn't get that much recognition is because he played at the turn of the century. That, and he played a lot of his cricket (by choice) in the Lancashire League rather than FC cricket.

It's also difficult to really determine what he bowled. He's sometimes described as a spin bowler, and sometimes described as a pace bowler. Alternatively, I've heard him called a "fast" spin bowler... but I suspect the term "fast" is relative. ie, he was a lot faster than a tradition spin bowler, but very likely to be slower than a true fast bowler.

The other guy to consider is George Lohmann. He's generally described as being medium-fast. But at the same time, I've read that his pace was considered fairly gentle when compared against his contemporaries -- to me, that implies he was probably closer to being medium pace.

Barnes is my immediate nomination, and still to me one of the most fascinating players ever. His figures are nuts for starters, and he only bowled against Australia and South Africa so zero cheap wickets. The thing is it wasn't like he was in the mix as one of the top bowlers then - most contemporaries said he was universally the best. The visiting West Indians in the late 20s said he was the best bowler they faced and he was in his fifties! Must have been one hell of a player.

Cool thing too - he STILL holds the record for the most wickets in a series. Over 100 years later.

 

[melanChronic]

Cool thing too - he STILL holds the record for the most wickets in a series. Over 100 years later.

And he missed a test in that series. Incredible.