Best team not to win the flag in the last 25 years?

[KillaKanga]

The 98 Kangaroos were possibly the best year of the 'Carey era' and didn't win a flag. Kicking 6.15 in the first half was demoralising to say the least and the team couldn't shake it in the 2nd half.

 

[BOP66]

Hawthorn 2012. Pipped by the AFL's lackies should of had the extra days break after the prelim. We all know that wouldn't of happened if the bleeders had finished on top of the ladder Vlad would of ensured they would of got the full 7 day break!

 

[peatease]

Of the 08 Cats, 09-10 Saints, and 11 Pies.
I'd rate 08 cats as most exciting, 11 Pies as most dominant(H&A), 09-10 saints as most consistent.

Cats and pies were so offensive, but I always felt they were due for a bad game and were prone to an upset.
The saints however were so consistent and were always in games. Don't think they had any big losses from memory.

 

[utility]

Geelong 2008, then daylight. The most dominant side of the last 25 years in their most dominant year fell over to a lesser but well coached side.

The silver medal goes to St Kilda in 2009. Barely lost a game all year, up at 3/4 time - should have been four or five goals up... and it's gone.

The bronze to the Weagles in '91. I think they won 13 straight at one stage, only lost three games during the H&A season by a total of 16 points. Got rolled twice in the finals by a dynasty in their twilight.

 

[WCE_phil]

Geelong 2008, then daylight. The most dominant side of the last 25 years in their most dominant year fell over to a lesser but well coached side.

The silver medal goes to St Kilda in 2009. Barely lost a game all year, up at 3/4 time - should have been four or five goals up... and it's gone.

The bronze to the Weagles in '91. I think they won 13 straight at one stage, only lost three games during the H&A season by a total of 16 points. Got rolled twice in the finals by a dynasty in their twilight.

The thing with WCE in 91 and what people forget is that we had to travel for every final and the bullshit that entails as well as the whole MCG redevelopment meaning we had to play the grand final in the wet at waverley.

 

[utility]

The thing with WCE in 91 and what people forget is that we had to travel for every final and the bullshit that entails as well as the whole MCG redevelopment meaning we had to play the grand final in the wet at waverley.

The first game of the finals was played at Subi. Playing in the wet is a weak excuse. Just beaten by a better side in the finals.

 

[calyam]

Your logic is bizarre. They might have tried to develop a game style to beat Geelong, but the fact they couldn't beat 2011 Geelong with it means they DEFINITELY wouldn't have beaten 2008 Geelong with it. You'd have to go a long way to find anyone who thinks Geelong were a better side in '11 than '08.

Then you would have to go a long way to find someone correct.

Collingwood's 2010 and 2011 side would have been beaten any of the Geelong teams from 2007 - 2010 simply because their entire game plan was designed to overwhelm Geelong's game style. A point proven fairly emphatically during that ugly preliminary final.

The next season Geelong made several adjustments, defied their critics and returned as a much improved team. That they lost one more game over the season is inconsequential.

 

[The_Ru]

Then you would have to go a long way to find someone correct.

Collingwood's 2010 and 2011 side would have been beaten any of the Geelong teams from 2007 - 2010 simply because their entire game plan was designed to overwhelm Geelong's game style. A point proven fairly emphatically during that ugly preliminary final.

The next season Geelong made several adjustments, defied their critics and returned as a much improved team. That they lost one more game over the season is inconsequential.

Melbourne's game plan was probably designed to beat Geelong's style as well. Does that mean they were better?

Designing a game style to be better and ACTUALLY BEING BETTER are entirely different things. The 2008 Geelong side were the greatest I have seen. They also didn't win the Premiership. End of story.

 

[Slax]

West Coast 1991 and Brisbane 2004 were screwed over by the way the finals fixture work which likely cost both sides the flag. If the finals in those years were played under the same rules as today then West Coast definitely would of won 1991 and Brisbane most likely would've won.

From Victorian clubs
Geelong 2008
Essendon 1999
St Kilda 2009

 

[MarchingOnTogether]

Note - 1980- Present
VFL/AFL

B - Bourke(saints) Frawley Clement
HB - Bairstow Roos Couch
C - Flower Harvey (st kilda) Hayes
HF - Loewe Grant (dogs) Johnno
F - Ablett (snr) Lockett Kelly (swans)
Foll - Stynes Buckley West
Inter - Neitz Ger Healy Hocking Quinlan Riewoldt

 

[andrew coombs]

Geelong of 2008 were a brilliantly talented team. Apart from an unbelievable thrashing from the pies ( who always played well against them ) they dominated the home and away season. Their dominance may have played a part in the GF loss in fact. The LA lakers " show time " like attitude displayed throughout the year needed a bit of retooling in the 3rd quarter of the GF. Their inability to lock down on a surging opponent cost them dearly. At least two of Dews goals came about as a result of the Cats attempting to rebound through the corridor under intense heat. It was like they had forgotten how to play defensive footy.

 

[DEVO]

As a North Melbourne supporter 1993 and 1998 are the two seasons I believe we should have the premiership but didn't. In 1993 we were easily the best team until our entire forward line were injured going into the finals. In 1998 we were on an 11 game winning streak going into the GF and blew it.

Outside of the Roos, I can't go past the 2008 Cats. It's quite possible that the 2008 team was Geelong's best from the current era but they didn't bring home the chocolates.

 

[jim boy]

Was it the stupid game plan or was it undisciplined players going the knuckle, star players not getting near it and panicking with their disposal when they did or the nothing more than workmanlike backline? There's all sorts of reasons Geelong did't win that game, their opponents being the big one.

The undisciplined players going the knuckle was the game plan. Bairstow still has a bit of a grudge against Blight for using that approach in the first quarter before reverting back to the running game. And as for "their opponents being the big one" - I've not made any comment about Hawthorn, the op didnt ask to rate them. FWIW what we put into that game would have won us any of the following few grand finals but the oppostion were too good that day, so that you should tell you how I rate the hawks.

 

[mike123]

Collingwood 2011

 

[Claude Balls]

Geelong or St Kilda pretty comfortably.

Collingwood 2011 not nearly as unfortunate as these two teams. Were done by 95 points on the even of the finals and lost the big one by 38.

 

[Sprout]

The Saints in 09 were a brilliant side to watch. They destroyed teams and did it in style. Strange to think that was a mere 5 years ago.

 

[catempire]

Cats 2008 best team I've seen. Ergo...

 

[MinerBoy]

West Coast 1991 and Brisbane 2004 were screwed over by the way the finals fixture work which likely cost both sides the flag. If the finals in those years were played under the same rules as today then West Coast definitely would of won 1991 and Brisbane most likely would've won.

From Victorian clubs
Geelong 2008
Essendon 1999
St Kilda 2009

What happened in 1991? I recall we beat them in WA in the first final.

 

[JoondalupJ]

Some beauties up there. WCE 91, Cats 92, Roos 98 and Bombers 99. Who can forget the Catters 2008.

Best team not to win it in your opinion?

Didn't Port win the minor about three times without a flag?

 

[JoondalupJ]

What happened in 1991? I recall we beat them in WA in the first final.

Yes we did. We beat them here, in a home and away , late , then in the final here, before the decimation of them in the GF which led to them learning the art of gaining the premiership, which they learnt bloody well.

 

[malteaser]

Well, the Premiership is all about being the best on the day, so I'd probably answer this question by nominating the best Grand Final performance by a losing side. In that instance, you'd have to nominate St. Kilda 2009 or West Coast and Sydney from 05/06. Those games were all up in the air until the final siren and if the results were switched, there would be no claims of "Bradbury" premierships or the like.

In terms of best team through the season to not win the flag, Geelong 2008 have the rest covered pretty convincingly. Not that I take any pride in that as a Cats supporter.

I think collingwood 2002 was unreal considering how crap the side was and we beat PA over there with no nathan buckley, then beat Adelaide in the prelim somehow to make the GF to loose by a kick to BL was in my mind up there.

 

[malteaser]

I agree that Collingwood in 2011 were an unbelievable side prior to Round 24, but let's not get carried away. Collingwood won the 2010 Prelim by seven goals, not 16.

by the time it mattered it was nearly 16 goals, needed a fresh team (took the foot of the pedal) knowing that the next week would be draw

 

[Freo Hitman]

Geelong 1989 just fall into this 25 year argument.
Anyone who has not watched that grand final look up on Geelongs stats for that year then sit down & watch the game. Undone by a Hawthorn team who needed every bit of 7 GF's in row or something like that experience to scramble just over the line. A lot of aspects of that game the AFL don't want too see anymore but my friends , that was REAL FOOTY

 

[JackOutback]

Very good post and analysis.

I think the win/loss record of some recent teams may be misleading. It's possible that 20-2 records are a sign of complete dominance, but likewise, the fact it happened three times in four seasons could also be a sign of a weak overall competition.

Maybe many aren't old enough to remember, but the West Coast teams of the early '90s were very powerful. That West Coast won 19 games in 91, despite travelling 14 times, compared to once or twice for every other team, is very telling. They were still coming to terms with the travel and it showed as the finals wore on. Hawthorn of '91 were a great, though ageing, team, and were able to snatch one more premiership as a result.

For mine, it's the Eagles of '91 and Geelong of '08. Maybe even throw in a North of '98.

People are basically comparing teams by their win/loss records and percentage, but they're comparing teams & stats across the years. More attention should be paid to the gap between teams WITHIN each season.

• West Coast '91 finished 3 wins & 26% clear of eventual premiers Hawthorn in 2nd place
• Geelong '08 finished 4 wins & 30% clear of eventual premiers Hawthorn in 2nd place

 

[Slax]

What happened in 1991? I recall we beat them in WA in the first final.

Then they had to travel for the next 3 weeks despite being minor premier