Streaming Better Call Saul - ** Contains Spoliers! **

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Seeds said:
The whole conclusion to the show is jimmy had little conscience and no regrets but then he ends up finding a conscience for kim. It has the simplicity and depth of a disney movie. Its so shallow. BB isnt exactly deep either. But it was a plot driven show with more colourful characters.

Character development is not Gilligans strength and the fact he didnt have much of a plot for this show and tried to make character development the focus was the shows downfall cos he doesnt put together deep characters.

what gilligan could do extremely well was great individual character scenes with emotional intensity (And great cinematography he had that in spades). But dont confuse that with character depth and complexity. It was extremely lacking.
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You thinking that a Disney movie can't slap, says a lot tbh.
 
Great finale that was true to the spirit of the show.

What an achievement overall - looking back, I loved all those weird, slow early seasons with Jimmy calling the bingo, the Kettlemans, the baseball card guy with the 'school bus for 6 year old pimps', Mike's heart breaking friendship with Werner, and the gradual evolution of Kim and Jimmy's unique relationship. Where else on TV do you get stuff like that?

Then ramping it up with Lalo coming in like an atom bomb in season 5 ("tell me again" - chilling), before the long, drawn out final season with most of it in black and white.

Definitely in the conversation for goat TV show for mine - ticks every box, constantly changing gears and challenging its viewers rather than pandering, and should stand the test of time to be discovered by discerning viewers for years to come.
 
Cm Perfect said:
Great finale that was true to the spirit of the show.

What an achievement overall - looking back, I loved all those weird, slow early seasons with Jimmy calling the bingo, the Kettlemans, the baseball card guy with the 'school bus for 6 year old pimps', Mike's heart breaking friendship with Werner, and the gradual evolution of Kim and Jimmy's unique relationship. Where else on TV do you get stuff like that?

Then ramping it up with Lalo coming in like an atom bomb in season 5 ("tell me again" - chilling), before the long, drawn out final season with most of it in black and white.

Definitely in the conversation for goat TV show for mine - ticks every box, constantly changing gears and challenging its viewers rather than pandering, and should stand the test of time to be discovered by discerning viewers for years to come.
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Couldn't agree more - I'm halfway through Season 2 and I already want to go back to the start because I'm already re-processing shit from the first season I've realised were far deeper than I could have humanly thought.
 

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kickazz said:
Lots to say.

The writers made a choice to keep this last half season as a winding down deflation. Compare BB's frenzied plot escalations.

Part of me had that itch for an Ozymandias style episode that needed scratching. And like an itch, on the surface maybe I left a bit unsatisfied.

But they went the other way, the more challenging way, and they did it really really well, leaving me satisfied on the inside. I think this season will be talked about for some time.

BB the better show for me, but BCS more consistent. (BB had some dud episodes early on like Skylar's boss stuff, etc). BCS probably a deeper more thoughtful piece, BB more in your face.

This very last episode was themed perfectly. I loved the scenes with Mike and Chuck, so beautiful. And geez even in one scene, the commanding presence of Cranston was something to behold.
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Why is it more challenging? Writing a detailed plot where there are complex relationships between numerous stakeholders that then blows up and unravels in a believable and satisfying way is extremely challenging. Few shows have pulled it off in history. Yet you say BCS is more challenging by doing little of that and being more contemplative. Now it is possible. There are more then one way to be challenging. But was it and if so why?
 
Seeds said:
Why is it more challenging? Writing a detailed plot where there are complex relationships between numerous stakeholders that then blows up and unravels in a believable and satisfying way is extremely challenging. Few shows have pulled it off in history. Yet you say BCS is more challenging by doing little of that and being more contemplative. Now it is possible. There are more then one way to be challenging. But was it and if so why?
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At least that silly side-plot involving Howard was resolved, I guess.
 
pjcrows said:
At least that silly side-plot involving Howard was resolved, I guess.
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What was even the point of him, Chuck, Lalo, Nacho and Kim? They all don't appear in Breaking Bad, considering BCS is already excruciatingly slow this just reeks of needless filler to try and get their actors awards and recognition for no important plot contribution to BB at all.
 
I really hope Vince Gilligan and Peter Gould never revisit this BB universe much like the writers and producers of the Back to The Future have stated they will never their (almost) perfect universe and franchise to be rebooted and or have sequels or spin offs, I just hope VG and PG have the same self awareness and leave this amazing iconic and timeless television legacy untouched and intact.

I Love and rate Giancarlo Esposito so much, and Gus Fring is my favourite character in the entire BB/BCS Universe (although Mike and Kim come close) but I don't want a Gus Fring spin off, especially one that supposedly humanazies him, Gus is one of the most powerful, ruthless and terrifying small screen villains I have ever seen, I would hate if we saw a spin off series where we saw him funnel his profits for a Children Orphanage (for example)
 
Seeds said:
Why is it more challenging? Writing a detailed plot where there are complex relationships between numerous stakeholders that then blows up and unravels in a believable and satisfying way is extremely challenging. Few shows have pulled it off in history. Yet you say BCS is more challenging by doing little of that and being more contemplative. Now it is possible. There are more then one way to be challenging. But was it and if so why?
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It's more challenging to do well I think. A decrescendo can easily come across as boring or "well nothing really happened". By giving the audience less and having a bit of restraint, you want it to work else it's completely shit.

So perhaps risky is a better word than challenging. We had the action packed first half of season 6, and slowing it right down kind of goes against the grain of modern narratives a bit.
 
FRUMPY said:
did anyone else think the cigarette may have been poisoned when she first gave it to Saul? Homage to BB and Walts poisoned cigarette...
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Not at all. What did strike me though was that they showed the lighter flame and cigarette burning in colour.
 
kickazz said:
Start of this thread makes for some interesting reading - a bit of scepticism, a fair bit of optimism too. Quite a few wanting Mike to feature and for it to be a dark comedy - I think we got what we wanted and more.
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Count me in as one of the sceptics - "why the f*** are we getting a spin off about the sleazy lawyer?"

Importantly, they made the weaving in of Breaking Bad plot points (Gus' laundry meth lab, Mike being his right hand man, the history of the Salamancas etc) a natural part of the series without it being excessive fan service.

I think after the success of season 1, Vince Gilligan was interviewed and he said the initial plan was a 'caper of the week' prequel of Saul and his zany antics (ie a straightforward sitcom). Glad we didn't get that and that the finale stuck the landing - it was looking dicey a couple of seasons ago but it found its feet as a character study with wonderful cinematography and a fully realised universe with real people.
 

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kane249 said:
They could do a prequel to his lawyer days when Chuck was a member of Spinal Tap too

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Was Chuck's electromagnetic hypersensitivity due to him turning the amps up to 11?
 
kickazz said:
Start of this thread makes for some interesting reading - a bit of scepticism, a fair bit of optimism too. Quite a few wanting Mike to feature and for it to be a dark comedy - I think we got what we wanted and more.
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Part of me reading these posts are why I am not completely against doing additional projects with some of the characters. And I was a sceptic too (and slow onto the Breaking Bad show originally, only jumped in/caught up around the end of Season 4.

If anyone watches the boys for example, incredibly minor spoiler but Giancarlo Esposito plays a similar character to Gus and has some flashback scenes played by a very good actor some 30 years his junior.

If they wanted to explore the period of time where "Gus" moved from Chile to Mexico and began his descent into the drug game with different actors would be ok by me. Worst comes to worse it's a freeroll. Either we get more good TV, or we consign it to the annals of history with the Godfather III and Matrix reboots.
 
Zach Package said:
yeah would have to be i reckon. What they could do is have it as a prequel series to BB, so you bring Mike back to play as a supporting character. Those two are hilarious together, just watched the scene where Walt's in Saul's office and just loses it and tackles him to the ground and Mike just sits there on the couch reading the paper and hardly looks up. Those 2 work brilliantly together IMO
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Caesar said:
This is going to be terrible. He's just not the kind of character you base a series around.
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rocker_oz33 said:
Unsure about this one love hes character in BB.This show would only be watchable in 30 mins eps and short seasons.
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Couple of the more enjoyable ones from before ep1 landed
 
kickazz said:
Start of this thread makes for some interesting reading - a bit of scepticism, a fair bit of optimism too. Quite a few wanting Mike to feature and for it to be a dark comedy - I think we got what we wanted and more.
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I actually went from "uggh" when Tuco randomly pops up "I dunno about this.." to only in the next episode with the skateboarders' negotiation realising "oh yeah this is gonna be awesome."

And of course.

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Loved the show overall but that was a very weird final season with a lot of up and down swings. The Plan and Execution into Point and Shoot episodes were the clear peak of the season and was very strange to go from that high intensity to just petering the series out with some questionable character choices. I dont think I even needed a post BB world wrap up to be honest
 
If Gilligan and Gould ever want to return to the BCS/BB universe, there is a story about the rise of Fring to be told. We know he is from Chile and there have been some hints dropped along the way that he was senior in the Chilean army during the time of Pinochet in the 1980s. It probably means that we're spending most of the time in Chile and Mexico before finishing the series in New Mexico and/or the death of Fring's "friend" at the hands of Salamanca.
 
Dixie Flatline said:
If Gilligan and Gould ever want to return to the BCS/BB universe, there is a story about the rise of Fring to be told. We know he is from Chile and there have been some hints dropped along the way that he was senior in the Chilean army during the time of Pinochet in the 1980s. It probably means that we're spending most of the time in Chile and Mexico before finishing the series in New Mexico and/or the death of Fring's "friend" at the hands of Salamanca.
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That would depend on whether Giancarlo Esposito wants to do it and he's already 64 and rapidly aging past prequel stage.

I do agree that it is a significant and mysterious character that you could build a series around, there's potential there for a cartel action/drama.
 
Jugada said:
Loved the show overall but that was a very weird final season with a lot of up and down swings. The Plan and Execution into Point and Shoot episodes were the clear peak of the season and was very strange to go from that high intensity to just petering the series out with some questionable character choices. I dont think I even needed a post BB world wrap up to be honest
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You could argue it's not needed, but the Gene plot allowed Jimmy to redeem himself and closed off the major open ends from BB.

Same rationale for El Camino where we got closure for Jesse's storyline even if you could say it wasn't strictly necessary - but it also allowed them to flesh out Todd and Jesse's motivations more.
 
Forward Press said:
That would depend on whether Giancarlo Esposito wants to do it and he's already 64 and rapidly aging past prequel stage.

I do agree that it is a significant and mysterious character that you could build a series around, there's potential there for a cartel action/drama.
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If you were to go back to the 80s you'd need to re cast the role.
 
kickazz said:
If you were to go back to the 80s you'd need to re cast the role.
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Giancarlo Esposito's character in The Boys funnily enough had a younger actor play him in the 1980s for a flashback scene, who was incredibly convincing in mimicking his speaking style, posture and body language. Maybe ask him...
 

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