better way of making it a national comp

[hawk-boy]

instead of having all the VFL teams then add a few non vic teams to the comp why didnt they have say
5 VFL teams
4 WAFL teams
4 SANFL teams

then add a 2 QLD teams and 1 NSW team

for the VFL, WAFL, SANFL they have a season and the the top 5 or 4 teams on the ladder go into the national comp??????????

and then have a resveve leauge with the reamaing teams and like the soccer have the top 2 teams on the reseveve league go into the major league and have the 2 bottom teams of the major leauge drop to the reserve.

 

[Ragnarok14]

For one you need a lot of clubs involved, and it works in europe because it can be quite cheap for teams in the lower divisions to run and still travel around the country to play games.

I would like it to work here but I just cant see it happening.

 

[Jesbo]

1. The draft system would not work as we would need to work into a free agency similur to europe and we risk having quality players eg. Foley Brown Richo (given that richmond would have been relegated) playing in lesser leagues if they dont want to leave.

2. Given we would have to have a free agency salary cap would be nearly impossible to sort out and we would there for have strong clubs such as Man U, Chelsea and Arsenal.

3. Australia is too small, it works there because europe has multiple leagues; Barclays, Primera, Italy ect.

 

[DV8ed]

Flaw with thie suggested number of teams from each state is substainability.

Victoria is struggling with Ten, I cannot see how the South Aussies would support more than the current crop.

 

[retroparty]

In hindsight they should've done that but it was the VFL who introduced the interstate teams into the VFL.

 

[marcus]

If you work on 500k people = one side then

SA and WA populations approx 1.5 mill = 3 clubs from SA and WA
Edit: WA population approx 2 mill.

Vic had 5 mill in 2005 = 10 clubs

Interesting one is Tassie, they have 0.5 mill which should justify a club,

Unfortunately they seem to be more evenly split between north and south unlike the other 2 states.

10 + 3 + 3 + 2 NSW + 2 Qld seems like the right balance to me.

Would love to see a tassie side instead of West Sydney but its not in "the plan".

I'm a strong believer that AFL should focus on the aussie rules states.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

other clubs wanted in on the VFL, and therefore, a new league was formed from a old one. if a new league was formed all together, it would have been different

 

[hirdy_is_champ]

well they used to have this champions of australia thing, where i think the winners of the VFL, WAFL, SANFL and possibly the Tassie footy league played off to see who was the best. Whether that generated much interest I don't know but it sounds intersting to me.

I guess the real thing with making the VFL the AFL was to get NSW and QLD involved. Seriously who cares though? 4 of the 6 states (and NT) are football states. QLD and NSW are happy with their crappy rugby league so we should've let em be.

 

[JeffDunne]

Why didn't they do it?

Easy, they didn't want to go broke.

 

[MarkT]

instead of having all the VFL teams then add a few non vic teams to the comp why didnt they have say
5 VFL teams
4 WAFL teams
4 SANFL teams

Simple answer. Could never have worked and was never contemplated by anyone in a position to influence events. Like it or now what happened was all that could have happened.

 

[balthaz]

The AFL is an elite tier, which also happens to be the national competition. AFL-quality teams could not exist in their current state as state league teams and would create further financial inequalities, compromising the elite nature of teams stuck in the lower part of the AFL/higher part of the state leagues. I suppose every now and then you might get a lower level team falling into some cash and going on a player buying spree to get back up the top but who wants that?

I would however like to see a new national league based on soccer's cup system. A knockout tournament running parallel to the season involving teams from all the state leagues. Maybe have the first rounds as small groups playing local round robin tournaments and then have the AFL subsidise interstate travel and extra costs for the straight up knockout games. That would have been a real way to celebrate 150 years of the NATIONAL game instead of an All-American All Stars game.

 

[McCrann]

I'm mighty glad they never did this - it would have killed football off in Victoria! The whole reason it was the VFL that took the game national was because it was the VFL that had the strongest clubs and made the most money!

Pretty simple really, as the years go by clubs are gradually rationalised as the game spreads further around the nation - but I much prefer that natural attrition than simply throwing half the VIC clubs out to start with!

Would have been a terrible idea 20 years ago!

 

[greatwhiteshark]

I'm mighty glad they never did this - it would have killed football off in Victoria! The whole reason it was the VFL that took the game national was because it was the VFL that had the strongest clubs and made the most money!

Pretty simple really, as the years go by clubs are gradually rationalised as the game spreads further around the nation - but I much prefer that natural attrition than simply throwing half the VIC clubs out to start with!

Would have been a terrible idea 20 years ago!

I think what you have said is right that we probably went the right way with this, but the assumption that all Victorian clubs were bigger than WAFL and SANFL clubs is laughable.

I can't speak for the SANFL but clubs Like East Fremantle and West Perth were bigger, and more succesful clubs than a number of Victorian clubs. Lets not go kidding ourselves that there was a huge gap between the leagues 25 years ago.
Yes Victorian was the premier and biggest comp, Victoria had the most money, but mid to bottom Victorian clubs would have struggled to make the top4 in the WAFL and SANFL 25 years ago. Victorias top clubs were certainly superior but not across the board.

 

[McCrann]

I think what you have said is right that we probably went the right way with this, but the assumption that all Victorian clubs were bigger than WAFL and SANFL clubs is laughable.

I can't speak for the SANFL but clubs Like East Fremantle and West Perth were bigger, and more succesful clubs than a number of Victorian clubs. Lets not go kidding ourselves that there was a huge gap between the leagues 25 years ago.
Yes Victorian was the premier and biggest comp, Victoria had the most money, but mid to bottom Victorian clubs would have struggled to make the top4 in the WAFL and SANFL 25 years ago. Victorias top clubs were certainly superior but not across the board.

Oh, I don't disagree that half the Victorian clubs were basket cases 20 years ago (mine defintiely the biggest of the lot) - and that WAFL and SANFL clubs, quite a few of them, were definitely more powerful in a lot of ways.

But, the top half of the VFL at the time were far ahead of the rest of the country. If they had chucked out the bottom 5 or 6 clubs in an effort to go national it would have disenfranchised perhaps 2 million people around Victoria and Tasmania (where my club had a lot of support) - th schism it would have created in the structure of the game would have been irepairable - it would have been our very own version of Super League - except without so much money involved - and because of that, potentially much more catastrophic than how Super League in the end turned out.

It wasn't perfect, by any stretch, but the way things have gradually evolved is the best one could have hoped for. Its the same thing that went on in American sport over 50 or 60 years ago - we're just a long way behind them because we're 1/15th of their size in population terms!

 

[dobbo_18]

Originally Posted by marcus
I'm a strong believer that AFL should focus on the aussie rules states.

Why is that?(not having a dig, interested to hear your opinion) Personally, I think the AFL should always be attempting to broaden the game's horizons and I would love to see an Australian side play another country in 50 years time (if I'm still alive).

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Oh, I don't disagree that half the Victorian clubs were basket cases 20 years ago (mine defintiely the biggest of the lot) - and that WAFL and SANFL clubs, quite a few of them, were definitely more powerful in a lot of ways.

But, the top half of the VFL at the time were far ahead of the rest of the country. If they had chucked out the bottom 5 or 6 clubs in an effort to go national it would have disenfranchised perhaps 2 million people around Victoria and Tasmania (where my club had a lot of support) - th schism it would have created in the structure of the game would have been irepairable - it would have been our very own version of Super League - except without so much money involved - and because of that, potentially much more catastrophic than how Super League in the end turned out.

It wasn't perfect, by any stretch, but the way things have gradually evolved is the best one could have hoped for. Its the same thing that went on in American sport over 50 or 60 years ago - we're just a long way behind them because we're 1/15th of their size in population terms!

yes agree mate, but by doing what they did also destroyed those great WAFL and SANFL clubs I am talking about which were just as important to their supporters as the clubs supporters you were talking about.
As i said I think we went the right way except we should have done a lot more and should be still doing a lot more to ackowledge and help the history of the WAFL and SANFL. It won't happen but it should.

 

[McCrann]

yes agree mate, but by doing what they did also destroyed those great WAFL and SANFL clubs I am talking about which were just as important to their supporters as the clubs supporters you were talking about.
As i said I think we went the right way except we should have done a lot more and should be still doing a lot more to ackowledge and help the history of the WAFL and SANFL. It won't happen but it should.

I do agree with your sentiment there, and obviously I don't know much about the history of the WAFL and SANFL for that matter.

I actually have a proposal regarding reforming the 2nd Tier of Australian Football and really making 4 strong regional competitions based on WAFL, SANFL, VFL and AFLQ - really building them up and giving them a renewed focus with the 4 Regional champions playing off at the end of each year to determine the "Champions of Australia"

WAFL (Western League) - can focus on growing the game in South Africa (and obviously maintaining its strength in Perth) Add in 1, then a few years down the track 3 South African Teams)

SANFL (Southern League) - focus on South Australia (9 Teams), Tasmania (North Tassie & South Tassie) and 1 New Zealand Team - focus on growing the game in New Zealand and consolidating in South Australia and Tasmania - which will have an intra-state rivalry under this concept.

VFL (Eastern League) - With the current VFL, add in a team in West Sydney (groundwork for an AFL team), Newcastle/Central Coast, Canberra/ACT, Wolllongong etc. Really provide a pathway for players in NSW to progress through juniors into the Eastern League and then possibly into the AFL.

AFLQ (Northern League) - AFLQ, also focusing on North Queensland, Cairns/Townsville and NT (Darwin, Alice Springs), Northern NSW (Grafton, Lithgow, Casino etc.) and even the Kimberley region of WA (Broome,Derby etc.)

Anyway, there is a whole detailed proposal I am in the process of writing up about how by strengthening the 2nd Tier of Australian Football with a Unified 4 League structure (Unlike the separate structure we have now) you can really create a much better system with better pathways and also grow the game in different areas by using a modified league structure to achieve that.

Its quite in depth actually, but I think it has huge potential for growing Australian Football around the country - and even in South Africa and possibly New Zealand.

 

[FlyingCrow]

I do agree with your sentiment there, and obviously I don't know much about the history of the WAFL and SANFL for that matter.

I actually have a proposal regarding reforming the 2nd Tier of Australian Football and really making 4 strong regional competitions based on WAFL, SANFL, VFL and AFLQ - really building them up and giving them a renewed focus with the 4 Regional champions playing off at the end of each year to determine the "Champions of Australia"

WAFL (Western League) - can focus on growing the game in South Africa (and obviously maintaining its strength in Perth) Add in 1, then a few years down the track 3 South African Teams)

SANFL (Southern League) - focus on South Australia (9 Teams), Tasmania (North Tassie & South Tassie) and 1 New Zealand Team - focus on growing the game in New Zealand and consolidating in South Australia and Tasmania - which will have an intra-state rivalry under this concept.

VFL (Eastern League) - With the current VFL, add in a team in West Sydney (groundwork for an AFL team), Newcastle/Central Coast, Canberra/ACT, Wolllongong etc. Really provide a pathway for players in NSW to progress through juniors into the Eastern League and then possibly into the AFL.

AFLQ (Northern League) - AFLQ, also focusing on North Queensland, Cairns/Townsville and NT (Darwin, Alice Springs), Northern NSW (Grafton, Lithgow, Casino etc.) and even the Kimberley region of WA (Broome,Derby etc.)

Anyway, there is a whole detailed proposal I am in the process of writing up about how by strengthening the 2nd Tier of Australian Football with a Unified 4 League structure (Unlike the separate structure we have now) you can really create a much better system with better pathways and also grow the game in different areas by using a modified league structure to achieve that.

Its quite in depth actually, but I think it has huge potential for growing Australian Football around the country - and even in South Africa and possibly New Zealand.

SANFL will never fall into line. We are proud of being the second strongest comp, and the league is well run. Posted a profit this year. We are the most independent of the state leagues and have maintained a strong culture even with Crows and Power in the AFL.