Analysis Beveridge - where to from here?

[The Slitherin' Snake]

Not giving English any ruck support? Pretty sure he shared the hitouts with Dunkley, Schache and Naughton last weekend. If you're suggesting we need to play two rucks then I disagree. Hardly any teams using two rucks now.

You're arguing that your opinions on coaching decisions make them objectively wrong. They're all debatable. Show a bit of humility.

I was talking about early in the season decisions that have been adjusted or changed since. If they were working so well - why have they changed?

 

[Charlie Bucket]

I was talking about early in the season decisions that have been adjusted or changed since. If they were working so well - why have they changed?

Incorrect. English has had others chop him out in the ruck in every game he’s played apart from maybe the Pies first time round. Not sure why some think otherwise.

 

[Next Waiting]

Do you honestly believe this? Some of his decisions early on in the year weren't great. Midget backline against the Blues, persisting with Dunkley forward too long and conversely Wallis getting so many midfield minutes, leaving English getting mauled to effectively lose winnable games more than a few times etc etc.

It's ticking along well at the moment but he hasn't had a good year in the box or at selection this year so far IMO. I can cop a few of those decisions as being in a rebuild philosophy at the moment ie persisting with B.Smith. But things like letting Lipinski wallow in the VFL while getting b.o.g's every week while playing Hayes ahead of him is just baffling.

Of course I believe this over the alternative which is that BF pundits, with 10% of the information, are better placed to judge who should be selected and when and for what reason.

Lipi wallowing in the VFL..give me a spell. There was evidently a reason they kept him there for so long, one that he himself alluded to recently, and that being that they (the coaching staff) wanted him to concentrate on inside work and produce a body of work before promoting him.

Bevo is paid to make these judgement calls based on his knowledge and experience which is considerable. I always find it staggering that those with little or no experience and a fraction of the information required to make an informed judgement are so emphatic in their views that Bevo is wrong or mistaken and/or shoulda done this or shoulda done that.

Your team or my team never has to take the field and just because you or I can't find a reason for a selection decision or non decision doesn't mean that there isn't one and nor, in my view, is he required to explain or justify his selections to me or anyone else. I might be interested but I don't have to know.

 

[TempletonTheRat]

Of course I believe this over the alternative which is that BF pundits, with 10% of the information, are better placed to judge who should be selected and when and for what reason.

Lipi wallowing in the VFL..give me a spell. There was evidently a reason they kept him there for so long, one that he himself alluded to recently, and that being that they (the coaching staff) wanted him to concentrate on inside work and produce a body of work before promoting him.

Bevo is paid to make these judgement calls based on his knowledge and experience which is considerable. I always find it staggering that those with little or no experience and a fraction of the information required to make an informed judgement are so emphatic in their views that Bevo is wrong or mistaken and/or shoulda done this or shoulda done that.

Your team or my team never has to take the field and just because you or I can't find a reason for a selection decision or non decision doesn't mean that there isn't one and nor, in my view, is he required to explain or justify his selections to me or anyone else. I might be interested but I don't have to know.

well said

 

[The Slitherin' Snake]

Incorrect. English has had others chop him out in the ruck in every game he’s played apart from maybe the Pies first time round. Not sure why some think otherwise.

I disagree but ok. What about the other decisions I listed?

 

[Hard Ball Get]

Glib, smart arse responses - why would i bother

Well when you make sweeping statements that are unproven, I'm not sure what else you expect?

I can make any stupid statement and then when it is proven wrong claim that things have changed. Ed Richards is going to be traded because he doesn't try hard enough.

If he isn't traded within the next 12 months, its quite clear something has changed and he has began to work harder.

 

[dergert]

My eternal dogs pessimism is giving me a bad feeling about this

 

[Charlie Bucket]

I disagree but ok. What about the other decisions I listed?

There’s nothing to disagree on. He’s had chop outs in almost every game. The eye test and stats back that up.

Dunkley wasn’t played solely as a fwd early on either. He just had less midfield time and couldn’t adjust.
More midfield time has done him wonders and we’ve benefited.

Gowers was on track for a 30+ goal season before injury. Where’s the issue in playing a 30+ goals a season player ?

Wallis is an interesting one. He did have a decent year prior in front of goal. It wasn’t as a fwd though, it was playing the similar role that Dunkley played early this season. So who’s to say that Wallis kicks goals as a permanent fwd, with a direct opponent and not having the freedom to float fwd from further up the ground to take uncontested marks under zero pressure from and opponent. That’s where a lot of his goals came from last season.
One thing I’m sure of though is that, compared to his midfield ability, Wallis isn’t a fwds arseh*le.
Bevo probably sees it the same way and so he wasn’t played in that role.


Hayes I probably agree on. He was given too long.

 

[Charlie Bucket]

Saints are going to come hard for Luke.

It's going to cost us significantly more to keep him now. I still think we'll hang on to him however.

Wouldn’t stress too hard. No coach has ever deflected to an oppo club while under contract. Can’t see Bevo being the first.

 

[Doggy]

Wouldn’t stress too hard. No coach has ever deflected to an oppo club while under contract. Can’t see Bevo being the first.

Fairly sure Ross Lyon did..

 

[gimp!]

My eternal dogs pessimism is giving me a bad feeling about this

You should work on that.

 

[Substance]

0% chance he leaves us IMO...

but what are the consequences for a coach breaking their contract 1 year early?

 

[Charlie Bucket]

Fairly sure Ross Lyon did..

His contract ended the year he left. Apparently some ****ing around regarding a new contract so he went to Freo. Coached out his whole contract i’m pretty sure.

 

[Doggy]

0% chance he leaves us IMO...

but what are the consequences for a coach breaking their contract 1 year early?

It will only happen by mutual agreement

 

[BallaratBulldog]

His contract ended the year he left. Apparently some ******* around regarding a new contract so he went to Freo. Coached out his whole contract i’m pretty sure.

Lyon had also lost seven figure sum in a single month on failed investments

 

[Charlie Bucket]

Lyon had also lost seven figure sum in a single month on failed investments

That would probably cause some contract issues i’d say. Probably made his Freo decision easier too.

 

[Mofra]

One thing I’m sure of though is that, compared to his midfield ability, Wallis isn’t a fwds a-hole.
Bevo probably sees it the same way and so he wasn’t played in that role.

I have to disagree here, although I normally agree with a lot of your opinions.

Wallis shows shades of Gia forward of the ball. Timed a beautiful lead in the 4th quarter vs Casey and in the second half of 2018 was arguably our most effective forward. I don't rate him as a first rotation mid at AFL level, last year we were dead last in clearance differential for the centre square contests he attended.

If there's room for one more mid returning from injury to take centre rotations, it's Libba well ahead of Wallis. Dunkley and Lippa have virtually made him (sadly) redundant.

 

[The Slitherin' Snake]

There’s nothing to disagree on. He’s had chop outs in almost every game. The eye test and stats back that up.

Dunkley wasn’t played solely as a fwd early on either. He just had less midfield time and couldn’t adjust.
More midfield time has done him wonders and we’ve benefited.

Gowers was on track for a 30+ goal season before injury. Where’s the issue in playing a 30+ goals a season player ?

Wallis is an interesting one. He did have a decent year prior in front of goal. It wasn’t as a fwd though, it was playing the similar role that Dunkley played early this season. So who’s to say that Wallis kicks goals as a permanent fwd, with a direct opponent and not having the freedom to float fwd from further up the ground to take uncontested marks under zero pressure from and opponent. That’s where a lot of his goals came from last season.
One thing I’m sure of though is that, compared to his midfield ability, Wallis isn’t a fwds a-hole.
Bevo probably sees it the same way and so he wasn’t played in that role.


Hayes I probably agree on. He was given too long.

RE: the ruck support - i don't really regard having Dunkley, Cordy or Bont take 3-4 ruck contests as support. The support i was referring to is more in line with how Trengove was used on the weekend. So that is why i accept your point, but don't really agree with it.

Dunkley and Wallis - i thought we had the forward / mid mix around the wrong way at the start of the year.

I have been really disappointed with Gowers this year after being one of his biggest fans last year. I felt his attack on the footy was way off, opting to try and get goals out the back rather than lead up or hit marking contests. And he form was way off from the JLT.

 

[Chicago1]

I'm thinking of sending Bevo a letter with a $2 coin enclosed asking him to stay. (Inflation.) Perhaps an email and using PayPal might be more 21st century?

 

[Charlie Bucket]

I have to disagree here, although I normally agree with a lot of your opinions.

Wallis shows shades of Gia forward of the ball. Timed a beautiful lead in the 4th quarter vs Casey and in the second half of 2018 was arguably our most effective forward. I don't rate him as a first rotation mid at AFL level, last year we were dead last in clearance differential for the centre square contests he attended.

If there's room for one more mid returning from injury to take centre rotations, it's Libba well ahead of Wallis. Dunkley and Lippa have virtually made him (sadly) redundant.

Yeah, fair enough. I over did it with the arseh*le comment. I don’t rate him as high as you, but he’d probably kick a few this year.
I just don’t see why knickers get in a knot about not playing him fwd. He only had 23 shots on goal last year. Gowers has 27 this year from 8 less games, he also creates contests for others inside 50 and eases the heat on our other fwds, yet some want him out the door.

To be honest I don’t think Wallis is very strong in any area and I agree, he’ll struggle to find a spot ahead of a returning Libba nd the in form Dunks.

 

[Anja_Nees]

Fairly sure Ross Lyon did..

Correct, although his contract allowed him to terminate on giving notice, which I doubt is very common now.

Another one was Wallace who attempted to move to Sydney (except we all know how that went).

 

[Charlie Bucket]

RE: the ruck support - i don't really regard having Dunkley, Cordy or Bont take 3-4 ruck contests as support. The support i was referring to is more in line with how Trengove was used on the weekend. So that is why i accept your point, but don't really agree with it.

Dunkley and Wallis - i thought we had the forward / mid mix around the wrong way at the start of the year.

I have been really disappointed with Gowers this year after being one of his biggest fans last year. I felt his attack on the footy was way off, opting to try and get goals out the back rather than lead up or hit marking contests. And he form was way off from the JLT.

I don’t see any real standout benefit for English in regards to who chops him out.
Naughts, Bont, Schache, Dunks, Trenners, Cordy. All have rucked this season, no real consistency in who it’s been, all a little bit random across all rounds.
English has had some outstanding games when having lees help, he’s also had pretty ordinary games when ruck numbers for others were higher.

For me it’s almost a non issue. That’s why I do t understand the stink that’s been kicked up all season.

 

[go the dogs]

Grant Thomas with an article on herald sun saying saints should offer Bevo a 10 year deal.

Longer there is no extension the more we will see stuff like this.

I don't see him leaving though

 

[go the dogs]

Grant Thomas has urged St Kilda to make a last-ditch effort to coax premiership coach Luke Beveridge back to Moorabbin with a stunning 10-year contract offer following the departure of Alan Richardson on Tuesday morning.
Beveridge, who led the Western Bulldogs to a drought-breaking 2016 premiership, is contracted at the Whitten Oval until the end of next season.

Bulldogs president Peter Gordon told the Herald Sun recently the club had already begun talks with Beveridge to extend his arrangement with the club.

But Thomas said the Saints would be derelict in not asking the question of Beveridge, who has had a strong connection to the club, having played 45 of his 118 AFL games with St Kilda and whose father, John, was a long-time club recruiting manager.

Beveridge had also been preparing to start as a coaching director at St Kilda in late 2014 when the Bulldogs made him the coach of the club.

“I tell you what, I would take Luke Beveridge (as Saints coach) for a decade,” Thomas told the Herald Sun after learning of Richardson’s exit.

would do that … 100 per cent. (I’d say) ‘Here is a decade, Bevo, you are a St Kilda person, you understand the club. Your dad, Johnny, knows it back to front. You have grown up with it, you are the man, away you go’.”

“Then you can make the hard decisions. You are going to have to get rid of some guys, you are going to have to rebuild and maybe trade a few players out.

“Just get it right.

“If it (a contract extension with the Bulldogs) is not done, they (St Kilda) should make every post a winner to appoint him.”

Thomas said St Kilda had made another poor decision in not casting the net for the best available coach at the end of last season when the club slumped to 16th.

He conceded it was now too late to chase Alastair Clarkson, which he had urged in the recent Sacked podcast, or John Longmire, who has signed a new long-term deal with the Swans.

“Our timing is impeccably bad, it always is, unfortunately,” Thomas said.

“That’s what I was talking about on the (Sacked) podcast about making brave decisions.

“The time to make it was at the end of last year, or maybe a year earlier. Clarkson lives in Brighton, and he might have been in a different space then, and maybe (it could have been) Bevo who was under the pump then, or Longmire.

They are probably the top three coaches in the competition and we might have missed out on them because we stalled and we waited.”

Thomas said he found it strange St Kilda chairman Andrew Bassat would chair the coaching selection committee instead of head of football Simon Lethlean.

“I find it interesting the director of football has relinquished his role to the president,” he said.

“I hope that doesn’t mean Brad Scott has already got the stamp of approval.”

He added: “I don’t have a lot of confidence in the St Kilda process. I went through one when I was told that I was the coach even before it started.”


Thomas said his recent comments on the Saints were not about him trying to be a provocateur, but simply because he wanted to see the club finally succeed.

“I am a 100 per cent invested St Kilda person,” he said. “To see them through to (being) a respected AFL club delivering sustainable success, I would do whatever was required.”

 

[dogwatch]

I have to disagree here, although I normally agree with a lot of your opinions.

Wallis shows shades of Gia forward of the ball. Timed a beautiful lead in the 4th quarter vs Casey and in the second half of 2018 was arguably our most effective forward. I don't rate him as a first rotation mid at AFL level, last year we were dead last in clearance differential for the centre square contests he attended.

If there's room for one more mid returning from injury to take centre rotations, it's Libba well ahead of Wallis. Dunkley and Lippa have virtually made him (sadly) redundant.

Once or twice a year for the last couple Wallis plays a BoG game. Mystifies me why he can't do it more often.
Anyway when he does it's as a midfielder.