Still wouldnt get a game with the best of the modern era in the team.
Gaz Sr is obviously an amazing player but history shows he wasnt that big of a loss at the time.
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Biggest Mistake - Clearing? Gaz Snr or Kanga Jnr?
- Thread starter mort61
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Still wouldnt get a game with the best of the modern era in the team.
Gaz Sr is obviously an amazing player but history shows he wasnt that big of a loss at the time.
- Banned
- #27
Averaged 14.7 contested possessions a game last year, just 0.1 behind Ablett and Boyd. Second in total contested possessions to Matthew Priddis. 1st in clearances AND average clearances.
And you think he'd be our fourth best inside mid?
Well worth 400K a year, and he was showing signs of it when we had him, so that's no excuse either. I don't know what we were thinking getting rid of this guy.
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To answer the OP - Barry Rowlings.
Who are these two names added at the end of the subject title?
Who are these two names added at the end of the subject title?
Averaged 14.7 contested possessions a game last year, just 0.1 behind Ablett and Boyd. Second in total contested possessions to Matthew Priddis. 1st in clearances AND average clearances.
And you think he'd be our fourth best inside mid?
Well worth 400K a year, and he was showing signs of it when we had him, so that's no excuse either. I don't know what we were thinking getting rid of this guy.
HP, using stats in a case for Hawk players who I watch week in, week out have abosultely no relevance to me. Yes he was showing signs, we all knew he was a talent, but I still think that he was/is fourth best behind the likes of Mitchell, Sewell, and Lewis. I also regard Shiels very highly as well (just as much as JK3), and I bet he aint on 400k a year. I loved the kid playing for us and didn't want to lose him either but he basically got stolen from us.
- Banned
- #30
If it's true that he was offered 400K, we could easily have matched it for the talent that he showed. I don't know what our salary cap situation was, but there's back-ended contracts, or front-ended contracts, and he'd probably stay for a bit less than he'd be going.
You use the Shiels as an example. I wouldn't give him up to the first club that offered him a 400K contract either.
JK3 probably WAS fourth in line back in 2009. But that was his second year, and as an emerging midfielder it would've been obvious that this guy was going to take the No.1 mantle at our club pretty soon had he stayed. To me that's worth 400K a year, at the very least.
I honestly don't know what our list management team were thinking.
Haha, who knows what would have happened but I'd be lying if I didn't have a little bit of the what ifs on this subject.
Maybe in a parellel universe he stayed and every flag was one in those years.
Maybe in another one he stayed, Yabby couldn't stick it and left and the whole club imploded in infighting.
HP, which of Sewell (and ?), Lewis (and ?), Mitchell or Hodge would you have traded to keep him?
How would Franklin feel if JK3 was earning 80% of Buddy's wage based on a dozen decent games?
How would Franklin feel if JK3 was earning 80% of Buddy's wage based on a dozen decent games?
Looking on footywire Liam Shiels was statistically better in every single way in 2011 in averages besides the contested ball. And is over 3 years younger and about 14 kg lighter (is 96 kg normal for a midfielder I don't know much about weight).
I like Kennedy because his last name is Kennedy, but what are we really missing that we don't already have? Hawthorn don't get contested disposals. We're too good at kicking the thing.
I like Kennedy because his last name is Kennedy, but what are we really missing that we don't already have? Hawthorn don't get contested disposals. We're too good at kicking the thing.
Looking on footywire Liam Shiels was statistically better in every single way in 2011 in averages besides the contested ball. And is over 3 years younger and about 14 kg lighter (is 96 kg normal for a midfielder I don't know much about weight).
I like Kennedy because his last name is Kennedy, but what are we really missing that we don't already have? Hawthorn don't get contested disposals. We're too good at kicking the thing.
actually a very good point
unless you watch the games, stats mean nothing
Sydney have a much more contested game, and rely on thier players to win the ball in tight situations
our game plan relays more on precise disposal into space, with our players being able to clear it when needed
if there was a stat that showed ball winning ability ( clear/clean disposal) from contests as a posed to gaining possession only, I think hawthorn would be at the top
Who of Lewis, Mitchel, Sewell or Hodge would he displace from the team in 2012? The answers is none of them.
Hawks don't play a lock down, crowd the ball, game style which creates a lot of contests and ball ups. Also, Kennedy's kicking means he would not be the asset to our team if he was asked to play an outside game like Lewis was for a lot of last year. No way would Kennedy be able to lead the league in GA. However, he is in the right place at the right time at Sydney and he is getting what he needs/wants out of his career - shame it won't be a premiership with the hawks.
Sheils will be a far superior player because he is good in close and outside and hits the scoreboard. He is the future!
I am growing rather fed up with this continual reference to Hawthorn making a mistake with Kennedy. I mean, how many more times does this need to be debated? He wanted to go, he's gone, it's over, get on with it.
At while we're at it, no mistake was made with Ablett either. He couldn't accept what was required to be a part of Hawthorn. Just think of all those premierships he could have played in. He was the loser, not us.
At while we're at it, no mistake was made with Ablett either. He couldn't accept what was required to be a part of Hawthorn. Just think of all those premierships he could have played in. He was the loser, not us.
I guess the reason this topic festers is due to the incorrect argument stating Kennedy wanted to leave. He was not in clarksons plans, so he did what any professional athlete would do. I think if some posters except we stuffed up, and that he is a gun footballer then there will be nothing to debate, so people will move on.
I think it's time to move on.....why do we have to rehash old news...maybe it was.......maybe it wasn't....ho hum
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- #39
This is the thing though, WE DIDN'T STUFF UP.
We made a call, he asked for a trade, and it was done.
Lists are cut and pruned every year, and calls have to be made. As pointed out numerous times in this thread, the abundance of inside mids on our list at the time required a rethink.
Kennedy was the one that we could afford to offload, and so we did.
Whether he goes on to win a brownlow or captain a premiership side, the decision to trade him should never be viewed as 'wrong', especially in the context of our list.
Ipso facto, if some posters "accept" that we didn't stuff up, there would also be nothing to debate. I'm just sick and tired of people bringing this up all the time, it's useless crap.
This is why people keep bringing it up over and over again, denial and justification. Just accept it and people will stop debating. But you got the order of events correct, Clarkson made the call (no guarantee) so the trade was requested. No issues with list management and trading players. Big issue with letting quality walk for bugger all compensation.
I think it's time to move on.....why do we have to rehash old news...maybe it was.......maybe it wasn't....ho hum
Look at the thread title and don't open it for a look, nothing stopping you from moving on.
- Banned
- #43
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Ridiculous suggestion we try to match sydney's offer and throw out our whole salary structure which is based on keeping the "team" together for such an inexperienced player (just 13 games).
The hawks losing kanga was similar to the cats losing mumford - everybody seems to accept they couldn't match sydneys offer so I can't understand why some posters have a problem understanding it here.
We couldn't guarantee him a position each week as we already have a couple of the best inside mids in the comp who were ahead of him - as a result he rightly saw more opportunity (and money) at sydney.
And considering he is a kennedy I would have thought we would have bent over backwards to try to fit him in if we could - and at the end of the day we did by facilitating a trade to his club of choice.
Clearing Kennedy to Sydney was for me a mistake . A big mistake. McGlin the same thoughts.
All I can think is that the player type that the Hawks had many many of were the likes of those two , and maybe they weren,t cutting it at the time , but I thought they were rippers both.
As for Gaz snr, it was not about footy with him. Good luck to the Cats for handling him. He was one of the greatest footballers to walk the earth, better than jnr who is footy fancy, but no where in the same league as his dad who was tough along with everything else a footballer needs to be.
Well its only three days ago I was discussing this same thing with a mate over here who is also a long term Hawk supporter, and member. Also strangley a born and bred sandgroper. Thats why its brought up on a FOOTBALL SITE, its a discussion point , thats what this is I trhought. Good thread and worth the discussion. The trading and playing issue is an argument gone but when you have hindsight you can always think , gee what if we had those guys with us now. Kennedy will aleays be part of Hawthorn and Sydney are a great club too. Good for them . Keep on talkin.
You obviously don,t enjoy discussing football full stop. Footy is everything here , future and past . Wake up, its fun discussing clubs and issues whether tomorrow or 50 years ago . Learn.
If we don,t debate , why have big footy at all?
eldorado
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- #49
Or maybe YOU can just accept that you are wrong, and we can stop debating?
Or how about we both accept that people have different valuations on what losing Kennedy has gained and lost us, and that no-one has the definitive truth when it comes to such intangible measurements?
- Banned
- #50
How does the acquisition of Burgoyne fit into this team philosophy? Surely Kennedy wouldn't have required any more money than a Burgoyne, so we keep Kennedy AND our No.9 pick. Discuss.
