Bigman’s Training Reports

[bettingonbetts]

There was a game where Pedlar ran full tilt, through traffic, scooped up the ball on the move, exited sideways, and then kicked the goal and it was one of those moments that not everyone can do.

I think we forget how good Pedlar was when he had his breakout. Was exciting and definitely has that x-factor

 

[1990crow]

Why not? Our midfield mix looks great without him

Dawson, Rankine, Peatling, Soligo as the main rotation, can also bring in Rachele, Curtin, Pedlar and Neal-Bullen as a second rotation. Draper to come in to the side at some point.

With that mix and Curtin's strong pre-season I don't see the need for Crouch

Because I seriously doubt Nicks will leave out a 100 game player not named Murphy.

 

[Cromulant]

I think we forget how good Pedlar was when he had his breakout. Was exciting and definitely has that x-factor

I dont think anyone forgot as such, in fact it was a big reason as to why last year was so disappointing

 

[Scorpus]

Because I seriously doubt Nicks will leave out a 100 game player not named Murphy.

He actually prefers Murphy in his best 22 over Crouch historically. There's been multiple occasions he's not played Crouch

 

[1990crow]

He actually prefers Murphy in his best 22 over Crouch historically

Yes, but Murphy's never had any competition for his spot.

 

[Slim258]

Yes, but Murphy's never had any competition for his spot.

I think we will be doing very well if Murphy gets less than 10 games.
He will play at stages, but hopefully its minimal.

 

[AFC979810]

I’d say it’s the exact opposite?

Disagree.

In a talented side heading for finals your team naturally won’t have a spot for a player like that (as we’re about to find out)

The best sides win flags based on their top 5 players not on their bottom 5 players.

Its extremely rare to have 22 to 23 absolutely guns. This is where the role players become important and make sense.

When you build a talented contending side - you need to fill the bottom end with players that are physically mature, know the system and can perform a role. This is why Murphy would make more sense in 2025 than 2022/2023. We have the talent now that he can just be a plug and play.

In a developing side there’ll be holes all over the place for a “senior experienced role player”

In a developing side - the goal is to find gems and players that are going to be contributors in the future. The inclusion of a hack like Murphy during these formative years makes zero sense. In 2025 if we have a couple of injuries - playing a player like Murphy makes more sense.

 

[Slim258]

In a developing side - the goal is to find gems and players that are going to be contributors in the future. The inclusion of a hack like Murphy during these formative years makes zero sense. In 2025 if we have a couple of injuries - playing a player like Murphy makes more sense.

We are past the point of being a developing side, we should now be at the point of being considered a contending side - our average age is up around 24.5 now, therefore up there with some of the better sides in the comp. I agree with your sentiment of the top 5 and the bottom 5, but when some of the bottom 5 are not at AFL standard which Murphy is not AFL standard that is where we need to improve. The inclusion of Cumming, Peatling, ANB, Curtin into the side FT and Draper when he gets there, pushes out players who are mid-tier into the bottom tier therefore eliminating the need to play blokes not at the standard.

In saying that, Nicks has a knack of playing his favourites, so I do believe he will find his way in at certain points

 

[Redline]

I know it wants to be great news...BUT its an internal trial and until the real stuff starts, I am not going to get excited as too many seasons past we have enthused over how well such and such trained, how fit they looked etc only to get a horror show in the season as almost everyone else was better than us. But I am hoping for no injuries and all being match fit and ready to go round 1.

I still remember.Graham Cornes after the West Coast trial saying that he wouldn't want to be a Crows selector for round 1 as there will be so many unlucky players.

I think we will flog the Saints in round 1 so we might need to even wait a bit longer.

 

[GROTTO]

I still remember.Graham Cornes after the West Coast trial saying that he wouldn't want to be a Crows selector for round 1 as there will be so many unlucky players.

I think we will flog the Saints in round 1 so we might need to even wait a bit longer.

I hope we do too, but remember last year, Lyon's coaching style. Saints only lost 2 games by 40+.

 

[Dangarman]

Saints match sim not so upbeat...

Star trio Max King, Jack Sinclair and Mason Wood have all been injured in a potentially disastrous AFL match simulation session at St Kilda.

The Saints have confirmed they have been sent for scans after the Friday morning run.

King has a knee problem, while Sinclair hurt his hamstring and Wood is nursing a sore quad.

"We'll provide further information once we have those results," Saints football boss David Misson said in a club statement.

"We understand the interest in Max, Mason and Jack, but until we have the scan results, we're working in hypotheticals, which is irresponsible."

Last week, the Saints announced young gun Mattaes Phillipou would miss the start of the season with a leg stress fracture.

ABC Sport Daily podcast​

ABC Sport Daily is your daily sports conversation. We dive into the biggest story of the day and get you up to speed with everything else that's making headlines.

Defender Dougal Howard also is sidelined with a dislocated shoulder and Rowan Marshall is managing a back injury.

King re-signed with the Saints last October until 2032, following a season where the key forward was restricted to only 12 games because of a knee injury.

He had also been sidelined in previous seasons with shoulder injuries.

Sinclair finished runner-up to Callum Wilkie in last year's club best-and-fairest voting. The defender had won the award in the previous two seasons and is also a two-time All-Australian.

Wood played 18 senior games last season and found his niche on a wing.

 

[Dangarman]

I hope we do too, but remember last year, Lyon's coaching style. Saints only lost 2 games by 40+.

We only lost two by 40+ also I believe. -42 to Sydney (after being 16 points up in Q3 before Amartey got off the chain), and -66 to Hawthorn (which IMO was by far and away our worst game for the season, so disappointing to put in such a shocker in front of our home fans after the epic 2 point Essendon victory).

 

[AFC979810]

We are past the point of being a developing side, we should now be at the point of being considered a contending side - our average age is up around 24.5 now, therefore up there with some of the better sides in the comp. I agree with your sentiment of the top 5 and the bottom 5, but when some of the bottom 5 are not at AFL standard which Murphy is not AFL standard that is where we need to improve. The inclusion of Cumming, Peatling, ANB, Curtin into the side FT and Draper when he gets there, pushes out players who are mid-tier into the bottom tier therefore eliminating the need to play blokes not at the standard.

In saying that, Nicks has a knack of playing his favourites, so I do believe he will find his way in at certain points

Nobody is a bigger Murphy hater than me over the past few years.

My point is, and has been, that it makes more sense if he gets a game in 2025 than any of the the previous 5 years.

We are challenging this year (hopefully) and thats when you understand a coach putting in a player who knows the system and can try to play a role. When you are developing a side - the inclusion of little Murphy who has zero upside makes absolutely no sense.

 

[AFC979810]

We only lost two by 40+ also I believe. -42 to Sydney (after being 16 points up in Q3 before Amartey got off the chain), and -66 to Hawthorn (which IMO was by far and away our worst game for the season, so disappointing to put in such a shocker in front of our home fans after the epic 2 point Essendon victory).

I wouldn't pay too much attention to old mate. At this stage we should absolutely destroy the Saints.

We beat them by 5+ goals last year. We were missing Rankine, Worrell, Crouch and Hinge (not to mention we will be improved by adding ANB, Cumming and Peatling.

Our team that won by 5 goals had Smith, Dowling, Himmelberg, Taylor, Cook, Murphy, Bond and Berry. Their team has been decimated by injury. Anything less than a 30+ win should be considered a massive failure.

 

[Golumless]

Nobody is a bigger Murphy hater than me over the past few years.

My point is, and has been, that it makes more sense if he gets a game in 2025 than any of the the previous 5 years.

We are challenging this year (hopefully) and thats when you understand a coach putting in a player who knows the system and can try to play a role. When you are developing a side - the inclusion of little Murphy who has zero upside makes absolutely no sense.

There is no difference in 2025 compared to any other year when it comes to team selection. Not to 2022, or 2017.

A rebuild, contention phase or anything else is purely just an exercise in list management. Once you're at the team selection phase, it's only about selecting the best side possible.

 

[AFC979810]

There is no difference in 2025 compared to any other year when it comes to team selection. Not to 2022, or 2017.

Wow. 100% there is.

In 2022 at round 11 we were 3-8.

In 2017 at round 11 we were 8-3.

Team selection at that stage should be radically different.

A rebuild, contention phase or anything else is purely just an exercise in list management. Once you're at the team selection phase, it's only about selecting the best side possible.

Absolutely not.

So you are telling me if a side is 3-15 - their team selection for the last month of the year should be the same as at the start of the year?

Wowza.

 

[Crow till I die]

Saints match sim not so upbeat...

Star trio Max King, Jack Sinclair and Mason Wood have all been injured in a potentially disastrous AFL match simulation session at St Kilda.

The Saints have confirmed they have been sent for scans after the Friday morning run.

King has a knee problem, while Sinclair hurt his hamstring and Wood is nursing a sore quad.

"We'll provide further information once we have those results," Saints football boss David Misson said in a club statement.

"We understand the interest in Max, Mason and Jack, but until we have the scan results, we're working in hypotheticals, which is irresponsible."

Last week, the Saints announced young gun Mattaes Phillipou would miss the start of the season with a leg stress fracture.

ABC Sport Daily podcast​

ABC Sport Daily is your daily sports conversation. We dive into the biggest story of the day and get you up to speed with everything else that's making headlines.

Defender Dougal Howard also is sidelined with a dislocated shoulder and Rowan Marshall is managing a back injury.

King re-signed with the Saints last October until 2032, following a season where the key forward was restricted to only 12 games because of a knee injury.

He had also been sidelined in previous seasons with shoulder injuries.

Sinclair finished runner-up to Callum Wilkie in last year's club best-and-fairest voting. The defender had won the award in the previous two seasons and is also a two-time All-Australian.

Wood played 18 senior games last season and found his niche on a wing.

Without wanting to sound cold on this but at the same time hoping these injuries are not major for any of these players, if it helps us to have them out for our game, I'll take it as we need every advantage we can get.

 

[triggyscrewedus]

Sure. But Pedlar was first to get opportunities at the start of the year, and he didn't do anything with them.

Spot on.
Yes, he's been injured but at some point he needs to show some grit.. is he the type that can't play if he has a slight niggle.
I rate him highly but it's time to step up.

 

[GROTTO]

Without wanting to sound cold on this but at the same time hoping these injuries are not major for any of these players, if it helps us to have them out for our game, I'll take it as we need every advantage we can get.

We will have plenty of opportunities early in the season where we will be legit tested as to where we are at as a club, Freo (A) Suns (A) Pies (A) and Syd (A) in the first half of the season.

I have no issue if we have some "soft" games in the first few rounds. Its a long season.

 

[ABAB]

Spot on.
Yes, he's been injured but at some point he needs to show some grit.. is he the type that can't play if he has a slight niggle.
I rate him highly but it's time to step up.

Who do you call someone who strap their shoulder to play through the pain for many weeks until it's too much and has to go in for season ending surgery??? I recall a team mate said he was very surprise to see Pedlar training when he was booked in for surgery that same day.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

View attachment 2220544

No Crouch or Sholl?

 

[bigman]

Big chunk of match sim today. Four quarters going for 25 minutes each, so very close to actual game length.

It was a good standard too - there was a wind from the south that caused some issues but overall I thought the lads looked pretty slick and exciting. Some very nice grabs today too which had been rather absent up until now.

As far as I could tell there were no causalities from the game, though Sholl was a late scratching after doing the warm up. I’m guessing it’s related to the corkie he received on Wednesday. He was listed to play but was replaced by Jones shortly before the start of proceedings.

Thilthorpe, Ibis and Welsh all played full games despite recent issues. Nankervis and Worrell were both held off from the final term. Rankine did not do the end of session running but looked to be ok.

Teams weren’t changed until half time, after which the defensive units of both teams were essentially swapped. There were also a few changes to the midfields for the final quarter.

The original teams, once again very much an A vs B situation, were as follows (I’ll note the players which swapped teams):

Blue:

Keays (switched to yellow for Q4), Curtin
Thilthorpe
Rachele
Murray (switched to yellow for Q3 and Q4)
Pedlar
Dawson
Walker
Soligo
Michalanney (switched to yellow for Q3 and Q4)
Hinge
Rankine
Worrell (switched to yellow for Q3)
Peatling (switched to yellow for Q4)
Neal-Bullen
Laird (switched to yellow for Q3 and Q4)
Milera (switched to yellow for Q3 and Q4
Fogarty
O’Brien
Cumming
Keane

Yellow:
Berry
Murphy (switched to blue for Q4)
Crouch (switched to blue for Q3 and Q4)
Edwards (switched to blue for Q3 and Q4)
Cook
Welsh
Taylor
Burgess
Ryan (switched to blue for Q3 and Q4)
Schoenberg
Nankervis (switched to blue for Q3), Dowling
Smith (switched to blue for Q3 and Q4)
Draper (switched to blue for Q4),
Borlase (switched to blue for Q3 and Q4)
Gallagher
Drury
Toby Murray
Bond
Butts (switched to blue for Q3 and Q4)
McAndrew

Goals were: Curtin 3, Thilthorpe 3, Keays 2, Rachele 2, Burgess 2, Jones, Pedlar, Walker, Soligo, Taylor, Rankine, Schoenberg, Neal-Bullen, Dowling, Fogarty, T.Murray

I also recorded the centre bounce attendances except for the rucks (O’Brien and McAndrew did the bulk of the work with a couple each from Thilthorpe and Toby Murray).

CBAs:
Crouch - 22
Schoenberg - 21
Peatling - 20
Berry - 20
Draper - 18
Dawson - 16
Rankine - 15 (played forward in Q4)
Soligo - 13
Keays - 7
Rachele - 5
Taylor - 4
Dowling - 1

Standouts for mine were Rankine (surprise), Neal-Bullen, Schoenberg, Thilthorpe, Worrell, Peatling, Soligo and Berry but most impressed in some way. Only a few had quiet games (Welsh, Gallagher, Hinge, Ryan and Tex didn’t have big days).

Thoughts on a bunch of players:

Keays - played forward and was solid before swapping to the yellow side for the final quarter and into the guts. Ironically kicked his two goals playing midfield and probably looked the sharpest I’ve seen him this summer.

Berry - has his work cut out for him to play round one but deserves it if he does. Only had the one bad fumble and was quite prolific at times for the yellow side, both at stoppage and around the ground. Doing a lot right.

Crouch - was strangely quiet for the yellow side - Berry and Schoenberg were far more influential - and even dropped a sitter which cost a goal. Swapped to the blues in the second half and quickly found his groove. Not concerned.

Curtin - played mostly forward but also spend some time on the wing which was interesting. Kicked three goals and was typically classy with the pill. Not a huge aerial threat today but finds ways to get involved. Laid a great run down tackle on butts on the 50 line and proceeded to dob the goal.

Thilthorpe - bit in and out of the game but when he was hot he was easily one of the most influential. Took a number of clunk marks including one on Murray where he was just too big and too good.

Pedlar - scrappy but I liked his endeavour and he seemed to enjoy his time in the blue side. Could’ve kicked three if not for some wayward shots. Not sure he plays round one but should get some confidence from today.

Soligo - played a mix of midfield and forward. Was super clean at the coal face and showed why he needs to play more there. Ball use was sharp even when against the wind.

Taylor - really liked his game. Despite playing forward for the yellow side he quickly got involved and I enjoyed his energy, both with ball in hand and his tackling. Kicked a lovely goal from 50 as well. Moved into the guts for the third term and unsurprisingly had several clearances. Moved back forward to make room for Keays in the last and went quiet, but pleasingly was one of the best in the running at the end.

Burgess - another good day at the office. Definitely seen an uptick in his intensity and work rate lately. Not easy playing key forward for the yellow side but he’s lifted no doubt.

Worrell - the best defender today in my view. Had a number of intercepts including a ripping specky in the second term. Sat the last quarter out but impressed me a lot.

Schoenberg - similar to Berry, up against it to break into the midfield but is doing a lot right. Intensity is top notch and is strong over the ball. Does love a whinge at the umpires however!

Neal-Bullen - was very good. Seemed to be involved in a lot of scores and was noticeably clean on the deck. Very unselfish footballer too.

Draper - couldn’t win a clearance for the yellow team but took a couple impressive marks that surprised me. Switched to the blues for the last and would have had at least four clearances where exited the stoppage at pace.

O’Brien - thought Mcandrew out reached and out jumped him too much at stoppages again, but he did finish off the game quite well as his opponent tired. Still a worry with his form I think, he needs a couple big praccy games.

Cumming - aside from a lovely mark over Murphy, seemed to be in cruise control and didn’t do a heap. Seemed to get through unscathed though and hopefully gets motoring over the next few weeks.

I’ll discuss a few more players later but feel free to ask questions.

 

[bigman]

Formatting went a bit haywire, fixed now

 

[1990crow]

Formatting went a bit haywire, fixed now

Fog?

 

[triggyscrewedus]

Who do you call someone who strap their shoulder to play through the pain for many weeks until it's too much and has to go in for season ending surgery??? I recall a team mate said he was very surprise to see Pedlar training when he was booked in for surgery that same day.

Half the league plays with strapped shoulders, it's not hard to train contact free with a sore shoulder mate.
It's probably why Keane threw his hat last week