Dam!! I blame you Deitzy!!! lol... Surely this wouldnt of happened if you were still in the area
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Black Diamond AFL - 2012
- Thread starter The Whisper05
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Dam!! I blame you Deitzy!!! lol... Surely this wouldnt of happened if you were still in the area
I believe they should of decided to implement it this OR next year, BUT it needed to be sorted the year before it happens! ie this year for next season!
A couple of points from your post, I think a coin toss would not be the most silly thing they could come up with(after all wasnt the AFL considering this for the nab cup game before common sense prevailed!!)
I understand your point of veiw re: 2 grades....I like 3 but only after it organised with time and effort(maximising the number of clubs/teams) ie not waiting for half the clubs to fold,merge,be on their knees or just plain had enough(Gossy) we are on the bare minimum teams now but feel we could grow with divs put in ( think Woy or Gossy return to the fold, Muswellbrook may join etc and the other clubs may grow to include a 2nd side ie Nelson's in the 2's and 3's would be more realistic)
A couple of points from your post, I think a coin toss would not be the most silly thing they could come up with(after all wasnt the AFL considering this for the nab cup game before common sense prevailed!!)
I understand your point of veiw re: 2 grades....I like 3 but only after it organised with time and effort(maximising the number of clubs/teams) ie not waiting for half the clubs to fold,merge,be on their knees or just plain had enough(Gossy) we are on the bare minimum teams now but feel we could grow with divs put in ( think Woy or Gossy return to the fold, Muswellbrook may join etc and the other clubs may grow to include a 2nd side ie Nelson's in the 2's and 3's would be more realistic)
I believe the only way to save the 18's is to spilt in to the 2 divs (again just my thoughts) so agree totally with you on this, and feel that they only have more distractions/commitments than when we were in that grade, it was hard enough getting them over a hangover,away from the gf,out of study/work and drag 'some' of the players to KV let alone up Newwy way, as you (and I have said numerous times) keep it along junior lines with Sara,Bateau etc and I feel they will get better numbers than 'hey you wanna play next year well you gotta join KV. Players will more likely back up in the leaner years too
One last thing Deitzy,than I suppose il let someone else have a post!! Are you guys up there involved/aware of Aker and his antics, playing games in diff comps? promotional work etc.
Is it poss to get him/cost? as I see he's having a run with Muswellbrook later in the year against the premiers of their comp!!
Would be good publicity to get a 'former afl star to the area' well good as long as he stays 'out of trouble!' lol
Is it poss to get him/cost? as I see he's having a run with Muswellbrook later in the year against the premiers of their comp!!
Would be good publicity to get a 'former afl star to the area' well good as long as he stays 'out of trouble!' lol
knoweyedeer
Draftee
- Feb 24, 2012
- 1
- 0
- AFL Club
- Richmond
Well after reading the posts it seems that the loudest voices are those of people wanting to point out everyone’s fault but never offering solutions. I agree that it is a can of worms that has been open, but getting them out is the best way sometimes to sort out how many there are and what they are, so to speak.
Deitzy, since when is it a bad thing to have new clubs in the league isn't that the idea, growing AFL. Is it inclusion or exclusion?? And this from someone that ONCE worked for them???
Deitzy, since when is it a bad thing to have new clubs in the league isn't that the idea, growing AFL. Is it inclusion or exclusion?? And this from someone that ONCE worked for them???
Firstly welcome knoweyedeer, obviously you know (or know of) Deitzy, he did put his hand up to take on roles/jobs within his clubs Gossy and Warners and the 'afl'. I on the other hand have not altho I have time kept, umpired (terrible at it) and my fav 'got to mind the beer we sell' lol
So feel free to have a crack at me as I am one of the voices in the outer, unlike him who had a go (along with many others) we 'as interested parties in the league' just get frustrated when nothing is changed, common sense doesnt prevail or the ppl running the show dont listen,care or just have their own agenda.
I agree with you re: inclusion and prob differ with Deitzy on that one but thats ok everone has different oppinions, I think we should of gone to divs a long time ago,before the comp died in the ass!!
I do not personally know the 'ppl running the show' right now,but have in the past(some were good and all had ideas with merit) and I know there are ppl out there 'helping the game of afl in our area) for no apparent personal gain (an example would be Harro who has helped get Maitland up and running despite being involved in the running of the league,rep teams and of course City.
I think we offer up solutions (which may or may not work BUT it better than doing nothing and hopeing it will get better,it been 11 years it ain't lol)
Anyways welcome and look forward to your ideas
Noodles
I am all for new clubs joining, I just have a few issues with a club joining with only one grade and no 18s. I think it is a way to set up for a big fall. Until we have all the clubs in the comp strong I think expansion is a very dangerous thing to be doing. Look at the clubs who have dropped off in the last few years- West Newcastle/Wallsend, Gosford, Peninsula, Nelson Bay, Wyong. It is proof there is something wrong. Newcastle City wont even have an Under 18s this year. This is a club that has won the last 4 senior premierships. Surely fixing the current clubs should be a priority for the league. If you want to have a look at expansion for the sake of it just have a look at the A-League and tell me how good thats going.
I also dont think its fair that clubs with 3 grades will spend around 30k just to get 3 sides on the park, while a side with 1 grade will be looking at around 10k and no umpires fees which are a killer. I have never understood why the BDAFL costs are so high.
For what its worth I actually have been pushing divisionalisation for the past few years. I just reckon doing it a month out from the season starting is bizzare and going to put strain on clubs who have 3 grades. It will put strain on volunteers who are hard enough to find as it is, and I think we will see a few forfeits across the board this year. The decision should have been made in June last year. A club with one side is much easier to manage than 3 sides so people need to realise that and how it impacts on those clubs.
And yes I did once work for the AFL but what does that matter. I worked in junior footy not senior which is a totally different kettle of fish. I think Ive seen a fair bit in the league since it started and I know that alot of blokes are thinking why bother any more. The league and clubs need to understand its a pretty ordinary couple of years ahead coming out of 16s footy numbers wise, so clubs are going to have to find some recruits from outside to keep numbers up because alot of blokes will finish up in the next couple of years. Proof is in only 6 under 18s sides this year which is concerning and the standard will be very ordinary.
Ive offered my solutions in my past post as to how Id run the comp this year. I think if you gave Singo and Lake Mac a crack this year a couple of "name" clubs would be in trouble next year with relegation a strong possibility. Is that such a bad thing?
And for what it's worth the AFL has nothing to do with how the BDAFL operate. The BDAFL constitution basically states the board makes the decisions in the best interests of the competition. So bringing the AFL into it isnt even a consideration at this stage.
miksmif
Senior List
I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure in Syd comp if your club has a 18's a divisional side and a premier league side it's the same as the bdafl(30k)
Where as if have a 18s and two divisional sides it's approx 20k
Now you can understand why gossy have left and other coast clubs will be looking at doing the same
bloody bdafl and their big egos ... no $%^&$%^ idea
like the look of what deitzy has thought around though
divisions maybe next year once it has all been thought out but not sure we have the number of team to do it right
this year ... 8 team premier div - City, Cardiff, Singo, Lake Mac, Warners, Terrigal, Killarney, Nelson Bay (give them a go if they think they can manage and they think they can with good U18s)
9 Team reserves comp (City, Cardiff, Singo, Lake Mac, Warners, Terrigal, Killarney, Wyong, Maitland ... dont think NB will get another open age team up but give maitland a crack - they have done a lot of hard work
like the U18 conf - good idea - tough age group but we gotta give them a game
cannot demote dockers (thanks for the earlier correction - just habit) or singo - they have worked the hardest, have drive and excellent committees
for god sake bdfal grow some balls and listen to the clubs or you may not have a comp
we are operating in a country league (despite being newcastle) where money, volunteers, players, and almost every other ingredient necessary to run an afl club is scarce
is anyone listening ............................................ !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Practice22
Rookie
Any time changes are made there are several things that MUST be taken into account:
- Short term gain could well inflict long term pain; The future must be well planned.
- Try to include as many stakeholders in major decisions as possible. Holding a brain storming session is good and write down the pros and cons. Though, the trouble with this is, yes seek opinions but defer from allowing people with not much grey matter to make decisions. There are many who make irrational decisions. Those who make the final decisions have been elected to that position.
- Read the constitution and by laws. Following a quick online check I have already found a flaw in the suggestion of two local conferences for Under 18s.
- Try and keep all grades together on one day. If divisionalisation is introduced this may be difficult. Club officials can well remember the difficulties with their canteen takings when only two sides are playing at home.
- Keep the turkeys from the AFL from poking their noses in. They dont know what its like running a club in the BDAFL and what problems are involved with it.
Hey mick, What are KV's thoughts on this whole issue? Have heard that canteen takings/splitting up of the teams at diff venues is a concern.
Are you guys (as a club) considering your options? ie sydney?
Have heard 4 (maybe 5) 18's teams are ready to go, thats it!!!
Im pretty sure KV,Terr, Cardiff and Nelson's are ready (not sure bout Warners/City) as they had combined 16's last year,so may be in but would be borderline at best(even a combined team!)
If this is the case, and we only got a month till kick off I suggest making the current(seperate 16's comps be converted to 17's(just like the good old days) and any 18 year olds play in your open team/s whats ppl's thoughts as surely an 18's comp this year would be a joke!!!
Hey befooty, the board have decided that divs are in and its this year,the starting date will be maybe 2 weeks later than planned.(as for the magpies/crows/dockers lol it happens who knows they may change again before the season starts!! joking!
To everyone, including backers and knockers of the board, I will say this that after talking to a few ppl last nite this was not a decision that they just flipped a coin and came up with,(to do it now) some of the clubs really have lost a lot of personnel and momentum and THEY approached the league with their circumstances and discussed their options (what is best for the club and comp)
They do not want byes, esp in prem div so unfortunately some clubs wont be in it
From what I hear will consist City,Cardiff,Terr,Warners,KV and Dockers with Singo getting the boot,Wyong and Nelson's of their own freewill realising they were in danger of not seeing out the year!!! Nelsons not picked up any and were never as strong as the Singo's/Wyongs or Dockers of the past. Wyong have lost 8-9 1st grade players,1 or 2 to retirement and at least 3 I know of heading to rival bdafl clubs.( 2 to Dockers and 1 to Warners)
1st div will be Singo,Nelson's,Wyong,Cardiff,City and Terr going on last years form
2nd div will be Warners,KV,Maitland,Dockers and Singo(with wyong and nelson's looking like not fielding this year,and Muswellbrook prob in next year!
From what I hear will consist City,Cardiff,Terr,Warners,KV and Dockers with Singo getting the boot,Wyong and Nelson's of their own freewill realising they were in danger of not seeing out the year!!! Nelsons not picked up any and were never as strong as the Singo's/Wyongs or Dockers of the past. Wyong have lost 8-9 1st grade players,1 or 2 to retirement and at least 3 I know of heading to rival bdafl clubs.( 2 to Dockers and 1 to Warners)
1st div will be Singo,Nelson's,Wyong,Cardiff,City and Terr going on last years form
2nd div will be Warners,KV,Maitland,Dockers and Singo(with wyong and nelson's looking like not fielding this year,and Muswellbrook prob in next year!
Here!,Here! yes there needs to be well planned out strategies in place to make the comp a success!
As for rules and regs, Im sure they can be changed(Im pretty sure divs will see the end to some clubs power over new/or old clubs rejoining) I do believe if they are smart about it the draw should be able to be done which minimises the impact on clubs, ie home 1 week,away the next(on the coast or newwy) but even when Bateau(sorry KV) and the like put a team in(whether it be next year or 5 years down the track) the draw should be done so that they allign ie KV prem div,Bateau 1st div and KV 2nd div so that the club (City/Cardiff will grow to 3 eventually will play all 3 grades at home together most of the time and away games will be at same ground or down the road!) If done correctly you can look after your existing/stronger clubs while still encouraging new clubs/growth!!
Looking Glass
Draftee
- Mar 5, 2012
- 8
- 0
- AFL Club
- Western Bulldogs
Divisionalisation can work. Where there is proper planning not only from a league perspective, but from a club perspective. Doing it a month before the season is schedule to begin and making it work isthe very definition of fiction. No one has enough enough time to plan. and don't forget you're coming from a volunteer based organisation. Both league and clubs.
Looking at the teams involved in Noodles81 previous post, there looks to be a fair few occasions where teams like Nelsons Wyong and Singo may only have one game to open and run a profitable canteen. Can that even happen in a area where you supporter base is made up of friends and family. We are the number 4 code here.
Someone before said the league is trying to improve competitiveness. Great, but where clubs struggle for numbers shouldn't the focus be in participation to grow the code.
Not to mention the pathways from junior to seniors. How does the model actually bridge the gap between u16s to senior footy. There are 5 teams in the u18 comp. Should this be a major focus as well.
I've been reading the thread for a while and I have to say good luck to all. You're going to need it. Especially those clubs struggling now.
Looking at the teams involved in Noodles81 previous post, there looks to be a fair few occasions where teams like Nelsons Wyong and Singo may only have one game to open and run a profitable canteen. Can that even happen in a area where you supporter base is made up of friends and family. We are the number 4 code here.
Someone before said the league is trying to improve competitiveness. Great, but where clubs struggle for numbers shouldn't the focus be in participation to grow the code.
Not to mention the pathways from junior to seniors. How does the model actually bridge the gap between u16s to senior footy. There are 5 teams in the u18 comp. Should this be a major focus as well.
I've been reading the thread for a while and I have to say good luck to all. You're going to need it. Especially those clubs struggling now.
miksmif
Senior List
I honestly wouldnt have a clue if kv are looking at going to Syd in the future as I haven't been around the club much due to work. But they'd be silly not to look into it...IMO alot will depend on how gossy go down there..
Agree that each clubs canteen profits/beer sales may take a hit,I guess they would hope that more chance of success as opposed to 'how much will our grades lose combined today? 250? 350? will increase numbers at the ground(enjoying it with familly/friends) and maybe more sponsorship money as you may actualy win a game(maybe even make the local paper!! lol)
I am concerned(as all are) with the numbers(senior and junior) and the pathway to seniors, so for this year I would make 16's into 17's and play 18's in opens, then next year ASK the clubs involved(both junior and senior) ie Wyong and Sara if they would like to nominate for the 16's comp and the 18's comp(just based on the coast and same for the Newwy clubs) If there still isnt the numbers with the reduced travel/other commitments etc revert back to 17's for junior comps and seniors for 18's.
No worries mate, wasent sure how involved you were their(gotta love being an adult with work/commitments!! lol)
I think alot of ppl/clubs are interested in how they will go,either for poss move by their own club or just curious!
I think everone can agree that they were really on struggle street and didnt really have many options(other than folding), and any current coast club would be in a much stronger position than Gossy ie if they make finals (in div 4) then Wyong or KV/Terr would win that grade (well with current players I'd bet on it!!) as Deitzy said div 4 is like playing marco polo with helen keller
Any praccy games coming up/or reports? I know City are playing up at Nellie against one of the sydney teams?Manly? I think,I always like seeing how they compete in/at another level.
KV/Singo are playing up at Port Mac, Maitland have inter club tonite and are playing Singo next weekend, they(Singo) are prob getting lots of games into their plaers as im sure they always have a pre season game against their neighbours (Muswellbrook) who are another target for our comp(1 team town who currently travel a bit and their comp has a bye every week,their juniors play in Newwy as well as being booted originally because the then league wanted them to field additional sides!! Sound familiar!!!
KV/Singo are playing up at Port Mac, Maitland have inter club tonite and are playing Singo next weekend, they(Singo) are prob getting lots of games into their plaers as im sure they always have a pre season game against their neighbours (Muswellbrook) who are another target for our comp(1 team town who currently travel a bit and their comp has a bye every week,their juniors play in Newwy as well as being booted originally because the then league wanted them to field additional sides!! Sound familiar!!!
I reckon they'd prefer this than travelling up the coast and getting pumped every week. There's nothing wrong with the Div 4 level, you can only beat the mob in front of you.
I reckon you'll see more teams entertaining the idea if the BDFL doesn't get its shit in a sock. Divisionalisation has invigorated Sydney footy. Where Penriff under the old model may not have lasted past 2010, they have won a Div 2 premiership, Div 3 runners up, Div 4 runners up, 18s premiers, all in the space of 2 years.
Noodles, the 18s model needs to stay in my opinion. By making it 17s you will only compound the problem. A big issue is on the coast that a number of junior clubs dont have senior clubs and therefore a number of kids are lost to the game- prime example Peninsula have won the last 2 16s comps down here and how many of those kids are ever going to be seen in the BDAFL- 0.
I know the coast clubs and Newcastle had big success with 16s footy moving to Friday nights. I seriously think this is the only way to build 18s numbers. Kids that age have way too many commitments on Saturdays with work/study that footy takes a back seat. There is nothing wrong in my opinion with playing 18s on separate days. It happens in the QAFL and clubs still get good numbers and good support at their games. In the current climate in BDAFL if I was a senior coach this year and had a good 18s player there is no way he would be playing in the 18s comp. Would be playing senior footy because the only thing the kid will pick up in the 18s comp is bad habits as the standard has dropped off in the last 4 or 5 years at that level.
I find it amazing that Wyong can have a 18s side make finals one year, a 16s side make a grand final then not get a 18s side up the year after. What is going on there??!! Surely those kids shouldnt be lost to the game. If we dont build a strong 18s comp then who is going to come in when the current senior blokes go? This is something everyone needs to work together on to ensure the long term viability of clubs.
I know the coast clubs and Newcastle had big success with 16s footy moving to Friday nights. I seriously think this is the only way to build 18s numbers. Kids that age have way too many commitments on Saturdays with work/study that footy takes a back seat. There is nothing wrong in my opinion with playing 18s on separate days. It happens in the QAFL and clubs still get good numbers and good support at their games. In the current climate in BDAFL if I was a senior coach this year and had a good 18s player there is no way he would be playing in the 18s comp. Would be playing senior footy because the only thing the kid will pick up in the 18s comp is bad habits as the standard has dropped off in the last 4 or 5 years at that level.
I find it amazing that Wyong can have a 18s side make finals one year, a 16s side make a grand final then not get a 18s side up the year after. What is going on there??!! Surely those kids shouldnt be lost to the game. If we dont build a strong 18s comp then who is going to come in when the current senior blokes go? This is something everyone needs to work together on to ensure the long term viability of clubs.
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