Personally I think they should leave the comp the way it is for now. This year was my first year and it saw some pretty lopsided results e.g Tigers ressies beating Lake Mac around 200 nil. But it takes more than a year or two to rebuild a club to be competitive. Perhaps they should monitor it closely over the next year or two and see if there has been any improvement in the clubs in question. If not, then sure, look at options. But it would be a terrible idea to boot clubs at the first sign of weakness.
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Black Diamond AFL Part 2
- Thread starter noodles81
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As its your first year you may not be aware but the same sides have been competitive and uncompettitive for the last 5 years- no one would be punted they would get competitive opposition something as youve noticed doesnt happen most weeks and make a farce of the league.
I know i wont go and watch a game if i think its going to be a blow out
- perhaps there are other afl supporters who think the same.
Good on Lake Maq and wyong for stepping up and i hope they can match it with the big boys but nelson beat lake Maq last year and they are playing in reserve grade in 2009- enough said
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I dont think anyone really knows what the board are thinking sometimes.
I believe as most do that something needs to be done, because if not the bottom of the comp will keep falling down.
Whether or not Wyong, the Crows etc have been given enough time to become competitive, they should at least be told before the start of the comp.
i know the meeting started at 7, but what time does it finish? and is anyone on here able to let us know what the outcome was?
I think that both the upper hunter teams are in the pos to field 1 team, so hopefully they can both become successful in this grade and then maybe 'play' as one club, not merge but field all 3 grades between them with the league allowing them to trade players etc
I believe as most do that something needs to be done, because if not the bottom of the comp will keep falling down.
Whether or not Wyong, the Crows etc have been given enough time to become competitive, they should at least be told before the start of the comp.
i know the meeting started at 7, but what time does it finish? and is anyone on here able to let us know what the outcome was?
I think that both the upper hunter teams are in the pos to field 1 team, so hopefully they can both become successful in this grade and then maybe 'play' as one club, not merge but field all 3 grades between them with the league allowing them to trade players etc
Word out of Morisset tonight is that the proposed 3 divisions has been knocked on the head. I do think it is a good idea, however as Roomy17 said, probably a bit early for this competition.
It will be interesting to watch the progress of some sides this year. Can Gosford, Wyong and the Crows step up and put some good results on the board, or will it be a case of same old, same old again?
It will be interesting to watch the progress of some sides this year. Can Gosford, Wyong and the Crows step up and put some good results on the board, or will it be a case of same old, same old again?
just back from the bd meeting the board decided that season 09 was to early to impliment these changes but has proposed part of what they invision the league they want in seaon 2010 but have also called for suggestion to what other options are avaliable in writing by 1st feb so i think any ideas just contact your club rep that attended this meeting asap
The Sydney AFL have taken the rather large step of tiering the 5 divisions this year, although Premier Division Seniors stays the same. Alot of travel involved, but teams like mine (A RAAF affiliate based at Richmond,similar position to Nelson Bay) and Penrith, who have propped up the bottom of the table in 1st Division Seniors for the last two years, have been relegated back a division, while UTS n Manly,having contested the last two GFs, have been promoted, to mix it with the Premier Reserves teams. Plenty of movement over the 4 grades, alot of work to be done volunteer wise, but after using the AFL software to draft a draw( under Garry Burkinshaw) we only play 2 games away from our ressies out of 18, pretty easy to work out i think.
If Garry and his board didnt implement this for next year (and keep in mind, we only had an open forum to discuss this in Sept/Oct) we would've found more forfeits, and potentially a few clubs falling over completely.
Embrace change, its better for footy all over. We now have 5 even comps for 2009, and no-one likes getting thumped every week, or dishing out the thumping either.
If Garry and his board didnt implement this for next year (and keep in mind, we only had an open forum to discuss this in Sept/Oct) we would've found more forfeits, and potentially a few clubs falling over completely.
Embrace change, its better for footy all over. We now have 5 even comps for 2009, and no-one likes getting thumped every week, or dishing out the thumping either.
Duck Billyworth
Debutant
Don't forget (or maybe for those who weren't around) Cardiff were cellar dwellers ten years ago.
I remember playing a game at fullback against them and not seeing the ball come past half way.
The next season they turned things around and built up to become the powerhouse of the league they are now.
Do you thing they would have attracted the players, officials, supporters etc if they had been dropped to a lower grade?
I think Wyong and Lake Mac need to be given a chance to have a decent dip at BDC.
Nellie Bay are in a unique situation where RAAFies no longer live out that way but closer to Newcastle and prefer to play for Newcastle clubs.
Interstate
Debutant
Let's talk some facts here in comparing the two leagues ...
Sydney has 10-12 teams in each division
Sydney has 4.5 mill people
Sydney has many more sponsorship avenues
Sydney draws players talented out of the Central Coast and Newcastle
Our markets are different - the BDAFL does not have the luxury of this divisional structure with so few teams and at times bare minimum playing stocks.
Lets see how Season 09 goes ....
Sydney has 10-12 teams in each division
Sydney has 4.5 mill people
Sydney has many more sponsorship avenues
Sydney draws players talented out of the Central Coast and Newcastle
Our markets are different - the BDAFL does not have the luxury of this divisional structure with so few teams and at times bare minimum playing stocks.
Lets see how Season 09 goes ....
Sounds like we will have 8 teams in BDC but who knows when we will have a draw. Difficult to plan your club functions if you do not know where you are playing.
I hear only 3 board members turned up to the important meeting last night.
As manatwork said Wyong sound like they have some sort of structure in place to get some wins on the board and are even training now. Lake Macquarie also has been working hard off the field to improve. Nelson Bay and Singleton would also be working hard. Maybe the Board can work with these clubs in a long term plan as opposed to quick fix solutions.
Good Luck BDAFL Board!
I hear only 3 board members turned up to the important meeting last night.
As manatwork said Wyong sound like they have some sort of structure in place to get some wins on the board and are even training now. Lake Macquarie also has been working hard off the field to improve. Nelson Bay and Singleton would also be working hard. Maybe the Board can work with these clubs in a long term plan as opposed to quick fix solutions.
Good Luck BDAFL Board!
Agreed, there are always clubs that are bottom dwellers, but with the right strategy they can get themselves up the ladder.
All good points Interstate, appreciate some decent feedback from a bloke with a brain in his head, unlike others. 10 teams in 4 comps and 9 in one though.The clincher will be,as you said, how things go in 2009, but if clubs are willing to make it work, it will.
The Wanderer
Debutant
Come on Pekay you make a lot of sense, mate don't take umberage to a bloody dill like this bloke, he has obviously set out to bait you and you have reacted, keep up with the commonsense approach.
Thanks for your contribution.
Thanks for your contribution.
here is my idea to curb one sidedness, expand comp, help clubs survive, and keep clubs playing at same venue.
2009 (leave as is)
1st
cardiff
newcastle
warners
killarney
terrigal
gosford
wyong
lake mac
2nds add nelson and singo
2010
PL1 1st and res
cardiff
newcastle
and who ever doesn't finish last or second last in 2009 1sts
PL2 1st and res
last and second last of 2009 1sts
nelson bay
singo
woy woy
WEST NEWCASTLE (hawkins oval)
EACH YEAR THE TOP TWO IN PL2 REPLACE THE BOTTOM 2 IN PL1 (maybe start with 1 up 1 down till comp expands).
Pros:
creates interest in 2009 for not only top 4 but avoiding bottom 2.
west newcastle or wickham wombats or hamilton hares, maybe even just WESTS (try and scam sponsorship), will give another option for newplayers coming to the city of newcastle, unhappy players, etc... I'd have 500 on them being in PL1 by 2012.
expansion is only possible with a two league comp i.e. new teams have a chance.
you really have to earn your spot in the top league.
2009 (leave as is)
1st
cardiff
newcastle
warners
killarney
terrigal
gosford
wyong
lake mac
2nds add nelson and singo
2010
PL1 1st and res
cardiff
newcastle
and who ever doesn't finish last or second last in 2009 1sts
PL2 1st and res
last and second last of 2009 1sts
nelson bay
singo
woy woy
WEST NEWCASTLE (hawkins oval)
EACH YEAR THE TOP TWO IN PL2 REPLACE THE BOTTOM 2 IN PL1 (maybe start with 1 up 1 down till comp expands).
Pros:
creates interest in 2009 for not only top 4 but avoiding bottom 2.
west newcastle or wickham wombats or hamilton hares, maybe even just WESTS (try and scam sponsorship), will give another option for newplayers coming to the city of newcastle, unhappy players, etc... I'd have 500 on them being in PL1 by 2012.
expansion is only possible with a two league comp i.e. new teams have a chance.
you really have to earn your spot in the top league.
But can these teams in PL2 put up a 1st and res side, Nelson Bay and Singleton can only get one team at the moment, Woy Woy would probably be in the same predicament. I am not knocking your idea i believe it is the way to go for the future survival of the BDAFL
Duck Billyworth
Debutant
Not sure if I understand either!
You say those who finish bottom and second botton in firsts drop to PL1
What happens to the teams finishing bottom and second bottom of PL1, do they drop to PL2.
What chance is there for teams to be accepted back into BDC?
Sorry, keen to get my head around it.
Maybe another run through the ins and outs would hepl.
You say those who finish bottom and second botton in firsts drop to PL1
What happens to the teams finishing bottom and second bottom of PL1, do they drop to PL2.
What chance is there for teams to be accepted back into BDC?
Sorry, keen to get my head around it.
Maybe another run through the ins and outs would hepl.
NO!!!! each division has a first and reserve grade..... you must not scrap reserve grade to make this work....
the importance is with firsts... if your reserves finish in the top four and your firsts come last or second last both teams go down to division 2.
please remember reserve grade is about getting 18 arms and legs on the field made up of first grade hopefulls and social players..... IT IS UP TO EVERY CLUB to find every unhappy league, union, soccer, basketball, or lawn bowls player to fill the twos, and create interest in the area.
promotion and relegation means the division will change each year creating extra interest in the league.
ITS not complicated.... please read the first post and this post again SLOWLY to understand....
Thought it was like that but got wires crossed
Your fundamental flaw my friend is that Singo, Nellie Bay and the other sides, who aren't in existence, don't have two sides, so what happens if Wyong and Lake Mac, who claim two sides go down? Where do their second sides go?
For this concept to actually work and don't get me wrong I like it, you have to assume ALL sides have the ability to field TWO sides and you also have to have an assumption that sides like West Newy, Woy Woy, etc actually exist!!
Also in this other quote about unhappy sports people, if you are going to fill in the twos with those sort of people, do we REALLY want another Division Two catastrophe?
The area doesn't really IMO have enough interest for this to work. We should stick to the current format and any side incapable of playing to standard plays in the Reserve Grade comp.
mate i think your being a bit short sighted i agree with you that i have no idea about singletons ability to field two teams... however every other side, im confident that because the teams dont have the same problem of getting flogged each week being in division 2 will allow them to rebuild and concentrate on finding arms and legs (nevilles) which every club needs to be built on.. instead of trying to find the guns to make them competitive in the top division.
also the first year in 2010 some reserve grade matches will probably be scratch matches, but 1 year of patience (no fines or threats to be kicked out), will help the league expand.
Your point is valid and taken.....
One option would be to allow players who dont make the 2nds in div 1 to play for the likes of nellie singo and woy woy for a week. maybe specific teams i.e cardiff & warners lend to singo, newcastle & killarney to nelsons, gosford and tezza to woy woy... provided they are not in the same division..... All this will take a big effort by the league and all the clubs.
Why not stick to a First and Reserve grade competition and look at consolidating the position of a few clubs in the short term?
What happens if a club has two (or even three) teams in the same division? Can they share players between the teams or do they just do it tough and eventually die?
Teams in third division will get thrashed by just as much as teams do now. Blokes won't stick around to play park footy if they're getting smashed every week.
Summary......there aren't enough players in the BDAFL geographic area to support a sustainable three division competition. Don't think for a minute that such a change as you are suggesting will save struggling clubs like Nellie Bay or Singleton or Wyong.The only thing that will do that is those clubs and the BDAFL working together to establish a viable business plan encompassing recruitment, marketing and sponsorship. Maybe this forum should switch focus for a while and provide some ideas that might help those parties in those areas.
What happens if a club has two (or even three) teams in the same division? Can they share players between the teams or do they just do it tough and eventually die?
Teams in third division will get thrashed by just as much as teams do now. Blokes won't stick around to play park footy if they're getting smashed every week.
Summary......there aren't enough players in the BDAFL geographic area to support a sustainable three division competition. Don't think for a minute that such a change as you are suggesting will save struggling clubs like Nellie Bay or Singleton or Wyong.The only thing that will do that is those clubs and the BDAFL working together to establish a viable business plan encompassing recruitment, marketing and sponsorship. Maybe this forum should switch focus for a while and provide some ideas that might help those parties in those areas.
I'll try one last time:
each club will only have two teams reserve and firsts. NOT 1 or 3.
the clubs would never split each week will play at the same venue.
there will be six clubs in div 1 and six clubs in div 2. NO division 3.
each division is a separate comp with first and resrves. at the end of the year the top club of division 2 will replace the bottom club of division 1 (promotion/relegation).
So 2009 will be left alone, but the bottom two clubs in first grade would head up div 2 in 2010, along with nelson, singo, woy woy, west newc.
So from than on the stronger clubs play the stronger clubs, the weaker play the weaker and have time not getting thrashed to rebuild and make a play for div 1. And the comp will keep itself competitive rather than the league deciding who should play where.
leaving as it is wont work:
when a club drops to reserve grade only, history has proven you cant come back from that.
All the clubs have history, they do not want to merge, they do not want to fold.
i have seen this system work.
the hardest part is getting two teams in singo, nellie and woy woy.
the second hardest is starting up west newc and woy woy.
But this system is a lot easier and than having 3 divs where you have reserve grade teams playing first grade teams. Weaker clubs will never strengthen this way. the whole idea of this system allows the weaker clubs to crawl before they can walk.
please read through the posts again, critisize, change, add ideas.... BUT dont say this is is not Sydney anymore, i am aware of the geographical location and population of this area.
Agreed, its too hard to get a club going again from zero both financially, administratively and of course players wise.
The club would need juniors as well longer term and they would realistically be well behind the Bay, Singleton and Lake Macquarie who all have quite a number of juniors up and running.
The answer IMO is not to fiddle with the comps, or try and lower the top teams standards to benefit the bottom teams with points systems etc, We need to work with the Lower teams and their individual requests in any way we can to get them firing a bit better.
Firstly, get rid of the Netball idea, we cant run a good footy comp at this stage, so lets get that right first and then try and develop the football where we can.
I think the Friday nights have worked to revitalise the Under 16's in Newcastle anyway and they have changed the Newcastle Junior games to Sundays also which is maybe too early for a success call yet, so thats an example of what some different strategies may achieve.
I'm not a rocket scientist or own a marina, but for many clubs, they are working hard and going okay, its the others that need to implement a strategy and stick with it as Nelson Bay are from what I have seen. If they are committed, they will come out of the other side.
The Wanderer
Debutant
Firstly, get rid of the Netball idea, we cant run a good footy comp at this stage, so lets get that right first and then try and develop the football where we can.
What you say makes a lot of sense obviously you have been involved in Club administration somewhere along the way, the fact of the matter is that clubs through their own administration have to be responsible for their own destiny.
The answer is not to fiddle at this stage, leave netball alone and get the competition right, you have to give the bottom teams the opportunity to establish themselves, all of the bottom teams obviously have dedicated people or they would not be there week after week getting the thrashings you talk about.
Someone mentioned Cardiff being at the bottom of the table some ten years ago, it is unimaginable to think what may have happened if they were relegated, do you think they would have attracted the cattle and management to make them the club they are today?
As I understand it there are a number of juniors coming through the ranks from a strong Central Coast and Newcastle competition as well as the Auskick initiatives, maybe the BDAFL board have to concentrate on ways of keeping them involved.
Upon talking to some of the executive of the BDAFL they have told me that each competing club has to furnish a business plan, maybe if the board were to digest that information and then give guidance to clubs where needed it would have an impact going forward.
I have had extensive conversations with Ian Granland and he has obviously fogotten more about club management and administration than most people know, if I was looking for guidance about taking a club forward he would be my 1st port of call.
His experience as a very well performed President of your BDAFL and a Past resident of Killarney Vale plus involvement with the Swans would make him the man I would want to talk to the most.
Just some thoughts from new comer to your league.
such_is_life_9
Senior List
i agree with swans12 and the wanderer...we have to kep the juniors interested in the competition and not defect to other sports...once you get the juniors coming through especially with nelsons they will end up having a good core of players for their club and hopefully field all three teams, as is the same with singo and wyong...with hopefully a better quality competition...as you say with cardiff hard to imagine that they were once at the foot of the table, but now with a strong juniors they hav strong seniors and the same goes for city...patience is a virtue...hahaha
such_is_life_9
Senior List
i finally get it hahaha...good idea but will be many years before something like this EVER happens...would be good especially with junior teams on the coast such as bateau,niagra prk and saratoga...but as i said many years off....i would rather see junior teams without seniors be allocated to a senior team and have a pathway through them and maybe depending on how many juniors from say from, saratoga go to terrigal,the bdafl give a money incentive to saratoga for thier troubles.....probably will never happen but hey just thought id say it...
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