Blast From The Past - Mike Sheehan article Merger Day

[Procrastinator35]

Look up contrary in the dictionary, and scottys name is there. Yo uhave to like him though

He's a different kind of cat altogether to be sure.

Not sure about having to like him though....In his playing days he was one of the most dis-liked & despised players by opposition supporters going around....My brother (A Norf Flog) hated him with a passion & would scrawl expletives all over his footy card pictures.

Though that level of hate that he engendered from opposition flogs merely endeared him to me all the more.... I liked him, though at times would shrink away in embarrassment at some of the things he said & did.

Still the best Captain we've ever had & yes, that includes Luke Hodge....When all others were hanging their heads in despair at 3/4 time in the 1971 Grand Final, It was Scotty's single-minded determination & self-belief, which carried us over the line that day....No doubt about it.....His words to the playing group after Kennedy's resigned address are now legend.

 

[Thaihawk]

Without Question....It shook all the silent Hawk supporters out of their Apathy & into action....My club, My Responsibility!

Scotty's Contrariness & his call-to-arms merely mimicked how he played the game....All heart & never accepting of defeat!....A true Captain.

Scotty also had a hard working team behind the scenes. A lot of people put a big effort into saving our club. With the type of people (good Hawthorn people) advocating the 'YES' vote, it was difficult not to go with the flow. Actually, as I came back from oversea just to attend the meeting, I was in the yes group. That decision was only due to the quality of people pushing for the merger. However, after speaking with two personal long standing friends, I quickly changed my attitude.
First, someone I had grown up with gave me all the facts from the Scott camp, and another friend, I had known since childhood, and incidentally was a friend of Sheehan's, gave me an insight into the Melbourne agenda, which stunk of take over. I soon changed my vote.

One only has to look at hindsight to know we made the correct decision = although all at Melbourne would disagree.

 

[Hawkk]

At the time, brisbane gave a lot more than they needed to fitzroy, and much more than melbourne was prepared to give hawthorn. No secret that internally melbourne were touting it as a takeover " a change of nickname and a new training base (glenferrie, which incidentally is now declared unfit for anything but auskick)

For those that are into the NRL (and I assume there probably aren't many here) but the merger would have been the AFL's answer to the Wests Tigers

A merger where the Balmain faction (up until recently) dominated the merger but where Western Suburbs Magpies carried the joint venture.

In that instance Balmain recently went broke after waring with the Magpies for a decade...only for the NRL to take over the franchise and hand the licence to Wests (whilst the Magpies own the licence they still trade as Wests Tigers)

Whilst Melbourne had the money and we had the players all the supporter growth would have been our way (the byproduct of our 70s and 80s success)...if it went ahead we probably have taken over the franchise (and maintained the Melbourne Hawks name) after the MFC / MCC tore themselves to shreds

 

[Pessimistic]

Actually, the then admin did provide operation payback with enough resources for volunteers to run the operation.

And when the vote occurred they handed over with minimum fuss and a reasonaBle hand over.

Its not referred to much, but in the merger meeting, Scotty made the point strongly that whatever the vote, we should all leave the meeting united, and if the vote was no, be prepared to work hard or dip into our pockets etc etc, because it was clear we could not carry on as before. That would be the worst outcome.

The theatrics with the jumper are now legend but in truth he was preaching to the converted, a pll on the way in estimated a 95% no vote and the actual vote from attendees was 90% no. A significant number might not have waited long enough to vote, as there was a lock out.

For mine the merger was dead when all those people turned up at glenferrie oval on the saturday, in truth. i guess they had to carry on because they were indebted to by the AFL and melbourne

 

[Noneedforaname]

That said in 1979 Hawthorn hosted North Melbourne in the first ever VFL game at the SCG...that game drew 33,500 and was not bettered by the Swans for 5 years in Sydney

I'd wager that 33,500 may have purchased their tickets as well. By comparison, I never paid admission to any of dozens of Swines game I attended. Supported whoever was playing them, as did the rest of the mixed bag of members from the junior footy club. Funnily enough, none of those guys would ever dream of supporting the swine. It was as many free tickets as you wanted, pass the tab to the VFL, and let the Melbourne clubs foot the bill/ be bled. Nothing but a pack of soft **** poseurs to be seen. Pathetic. Fxxx. I hate that they ever even existed. Still do.

But anyhow, our game, and other publicity stunts that followed proved that the game would succeed in Sydney. We got the numbers there that proved it was possible.

By the same token I don't understand how there was so much opposition to us bobbing up in Tassie and leading the growth of game down the same path. Increased footy appetite, improved facilities, growing awareness that Tassie coul do it ... The opposition from flogs like Tim Lane was misplaced. If he and others could have supported the games there, and rode on our coat tails a little more, the movement to get a team would have generated more momentum, and enjoyed more support. Shot emselves in the foot. Tassie folks deserved better.

In hindsight, the threat of this proposed disaster may be one of the single most important events in the history of our club. If it hadn't been for the efforts of those who galvanised the supporter base, and those who heeded the call to commit to the club's future, then we'd be nothing more than the silent partner in a shotgun wedding. And how did that work out for Fitzroy?

Agree 100% there. Hawks know what is to have faced extinction. I reckon the interest members show, the ownership we feel we have of the club will stop us ever going down that path again. Same reason why we'd never suffer a fool and his Messiah complex like some other poor, pathetic desperates.

 

[Agent Smith]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing I don't anyone could have predicated our turnaround over 20 years

Not to the extent it has, but I knew we may have been on the cusp of something bigger at the time. The success of the 80s would have translated into many kids following the Hawks growing up, it just needed that oomph to turn them into paid up members in the 90s. The merger certainly provided that.

In hindsight, the threat of this proposed disaster may be one of the single most important events in the history of our club. If it hadn't been for the efforts of those who galvanised the supporter base, and those who heeded the call to commit to the club's future, then we'd be nothing more than the silent partner in a shotgun wedding. And how did that work out for Fitzroy?

Exactly. If they were called the Fitzroy Bears, then the Brissy Bears would be just as extinct. We were being given a raw deal with both the name and the guernsey and people are surprised we voted 'no'? Not that many would have voted yes had the naming rights and guernsey been ours (I still certainly wouldn't have). The whole thought of bringing in another clubs values and traditions sickens me, especially that toffy loving, pansy joke of a club called Melbourne.

 

[Pessimistic]

Not to the extent it has, but I knew we may have been on the cusp of something bigger at the time. The success of the 80s would have translated into many kids following the Hawks growing up, it just needed that oomph to turn them into paid up members in the 90s. The merger certainly provided that.

By the same token, an amalgamation of two boards wh hadnt done much, each subject to infighting didnt fill people with optimism either. The dollars from the AFL would have papered over the cracks until a huge shitfight down the track.

Also remember lloyd williams pulled out as sponsor too, saying the dawks wpould be a PR disaster

 

[Rushed_Behind]

He's a different kind of cat altogether to be sure.

Not sure about having to like him though....In his playing days he was one of the most dis-liked & despised players by opposition supporters going around....My brother (A Norf Flog) hated him with a passion & would scrawl expletives all over his footy card pictures.

Though that level of hate that he engendered from opposition flogs merely endeared him to me all the more.... I liked him, though at times would shrink away in embarrassment at some of the things he said & did.

Still the best Captain we've ever had & yes, that includes Luke Hodge....When all others were hanging their heads in despair at 3/4 time in the 1971 Grand Final, It was Scotty's single-minded determination & self-belief, which carried us over the line that day....No doubt about it.....His words to the playing group after Kennedy's resigned address are now legend.

Please do tell more.

 

[Procrastinator35]

Please do tell more.

I'm pretty sure there was an expose on that Grand Final, much in the same vein as they do A GF review at the beginning of every season.

It will no doubt be out on DVD format somewhere....Had all sorts of story-lines & interviews with the principal protagonists/antagonists of the Game.

Huddo/Cowboy Neale....Ditterich/Scott....The Matthews/Trott shirt-front.....Jeans/Kennedy.....All agreed in unison that it was far & away the most brutal game they had ever witnessed or been a part of, as every game between us back then usually was war.

To cut a long-story Short....Kennedy had given his final speech in the tone of a funerary sermon, resigned to defeat....As the players were breaking up from that huddle & Kennedy made his exit, Scott then re-gathered them & told them (In Essence) that He didn't know what Kennedy was on about, That St.Kilda were tired & there for the taking & that he felt certain that we were going to win & run over the top of them.....The story goes that he did in in such a voice of self-certainty & authority that all of the other 19 players believed it.....Barney's 60 meter torpedo for a goal in the first minute, then began the run of goals that would see Keddie follow up with 4 of his own & us win by 7 points.

It's a generally accepted truism that it was Scotty's single minded determination & Will-power that swung the pendulum our way that day, in more ways than one.....His effort in the ruck against both Ditterich & Mynott was Herculean & he beat them both single-handedly via a sheer act of will alone.

So when he led the opposition to the Yes vote at that merger meeting, it was oof the back of having turned the tide of doubt before....A man of his own mind is Scotty; And that's what made him our best Captain ever & our Saviour....Both in 1971 & then again in 1996!

His 76 & 78 Grand Finals were also excellent....Always lifted for finals did the Don.

 

[Rushed_Behind]

I'm pretty sure there was an expose on that Grand Final, much in the same vein as they do A GF review at the beginning of every season.

It will no doubt be out on DVD format somewhere....Had all sorts of story-lines & interviews with the principal protagonists/antagonists of the Game.

Huddo/Cowboy Neale....Ditterich/Scott....The Matthews/Trott shirt-front.....Jeans/Kennedy.....All agreed in unison that it was far & away the most brutal game they had ever witnessed or been a part of, as every game between us back then usually was war.

To cut a long-story Short....Kennedy had given his final speech in the tone of a funerary sermon, resigned to defeat....As the players were breaking up from that huddle & Kennedy made his exit, Scott then re-gathered them & told them (In Essence) that He didn't know what Kennedy was on about, That St.Kilda were tired & there for the taking & that he felt certain that we were going to win & run over the top of them.....The story goes that he did in in such a voice of self-certainty & authority that all of the other 19 players believed it.....Barney's 60 meter torpedo for a goal in the first minute, then began the run of goals that would see Keddie follow up with 4 of his own & us win by 7 points.

It's a generally accepted truism that it was Scotty's single minded determination & Will-power that swung the pendulum our way that day, in more ways than one.....His effort in the ruck against both Ditterich & Mynott was Herculean & he beat them both single-handedly via a sheer act of will alone.

So when he led the opposition to the Yes vote at that merger meeting, it was oof the back of having turned the tide of doubt before....A man of his own mind is Scotty; And that's what made him our best Captain ever & our Saviour....Both in 1971 & then again in 1996!

His 76 & 78 Grand Finals were also excellent....Always lifted for finals did the Don.

Thanks a lot for that. It's always great to hear these stories of our great club. Every club has them but for us younger guys that missed the 70's and the earlier period its great reading.

I was born in '78 so even the 80's are a little bit blurry and love reading of the feats of our players that make the fabric of this club.

 

[ScoobySnacks]

I was too young to remember much of the drama surrounding this, but it is very amusing to see the complete sliding doors nature of the whole scenario. We managed to absolutely destroy the benchmarks that Sheehan listed here as being effectively insurmountable for the club. Melbourne's woes put down to a lack of success and poor drafting, nothing has changed (until very recently). Good for a chuckle

 

[Pessimistic]

Also, dunstall did get injured, in the elim final against sydney, but if he had not, we would have surely won andBeen in a good position given the way the final 8 worked at the time.

I remember attending a reserves final at princes park next day.

Bung was in a knee brace and lurking under a flight of steps. I dont think his pride wanted too many to see him like that. The group of eight or so players looked very bashed up. i was quite shocked. Is spoke briefly to harford cant remember what we said though

 

[Procrastinator35]

Please do tell more.

You'll find it on Youtube....It's called: The Final Story 1971. By Michael Grech.

 

[moginie]

I'd wager that 33,500 may have purchased their tickets as well. By comparison, I never paid admission to any of dozens of Swines game I attended. Supported whoever was playing them, as did the rest of the mixed bag of members from the junior footy club. Funnily enough, none of those guys would ever dream of supporting the swine. It was as many free tickets as you wanted, pass the tab to the VFL, and let the Melbourne clubs foot the bill/ be bled. Nothing but a pack of soft **** poseurs to be seen. Pathetic. Fxxx. I hate that they ever even existed. Still do.

But anyhow, our game, and other publicity stunts that followed proved that the game would succeed in Sydney. We got the numbers there that proved it was possible.

No, it wasn't pre booked. It was just like a normal game, admittedly better promoted. IIRC, the crowd was mostly made up of expat Vics & people from the Aussie Rules areas of NSW. I can remember kids in Collingwood guernseys being picked on & them replying that they were all from the same team in Wentworth & they just wanted to wear their team's colours. At this time there were very few schools that played Aussie Rules & I was fortunate to go to one of them - even though I played League all the way through high school. I also remember going with a mate to the South v Collingwood game in 81 & several of the games, including the initial Sydney Swans game in 82. Like you, I supported whoever the Swans were playing against (until they played Carlton & Richmond because I would never stoop that low). Without freebies & people coming up for a nice trip to Sydney, I reckon the Swans would have collapsed very early. There was a lot of antipathy toward them.

 

[Noneedforaname]

No, it wasn't pre booked. It was just like a normal game, admittedly better promoted. IIRC, the crowd was mostly made up of expat Vics & people from the Aussie Rules areas of NSW.

Not sure what you mean by prebooked? As far as I remember, it was rock up and buy the ticket on the day. I don't know if there was jnr footy in W'gong at that stage.
Still the hill in those days, and you could go anywhere you wanted along the eastern half of the ground, about an arc of 60° - 65°.

Huge effort by cheer squads and fans to come up on busses and train those days, not sure if many flew to game. Carlton fans for about 3 yrs running managed to throw so many streamers (cash register rolls) and torn up newspapers, telephone books etc, onto the ground that play had to stop. Accidently (?) Fires started along the boundary that also stopped play. I imagine the Pies fans would have been similar, but dont remember specifically. It sure beat a single match of the day on b&w tv anyhow, thats for sure.

Sorry, gettin all nostalgic now. Forgotten what the thread was about.

 

[moginie]

Not sure what you mean by prebooked? As far as I remember, it was rock up and buy the ticket on the day. I don't know if there was jnr footy in W'gong at that stage.
Still the hill in those days, and you could go anywhere you wanted along the eastern half of the ground, about an arc of 60° - 65°.

Huge effort by cheer squads and fans to come up on busses and train those days, not sure if many flew to game. Carlton fans for about 3 yrs running managed to throw so many streamers (cash register rolls) and torn up newspapers, telephone books etc, onto the ground that play had to stop. Accidently (?) Fires started along the boundary that also stopped play. I imagine the Pies fans would have been similar, but dont remember specifically. It sure beat a single match of the day on b&w tv anyhow, thats for sure.

Sorry, gettin all nostalgic now. Forgotten what the thread was about.

I misunderstood what you wrote "purchased their tickets". My bad (well, what do you know, somebody misunderstanding someone else on the interwebz).

I was at the game the day that the wing in front of the Bob Stand caught fire courtesy of the Carlton cheersquad. It was the beginning of the end for that sort of innocent entertainment.

 

[Noneedforaname]

I misunderstood what you wrote "purchased their tickets". My bad (well, what do you know, somebody misunderstanding someone else on the interwebz).

I was at the game the day that the wing in front of the Bob Stand caught fire courtesy of the Carlton cheersquad. It was the beginning of the end for that sort of innocent entertainment.

Ahh, I got it now.

Certainly was a great atmosphere in those days.

 

[moginie]

Ahh, I got it now.

Certainly was a great atmosphere in those days.

It was. The SCG in the 70's & early 80's was a great place to watch any sport. It lost a lot when firstly the Pat Hills Stand (now the O'Reilly Stand) & the Doug Walters Stand (that repulsive piece of concrete) was built.

 

[Pessimistic]

What I found intersting is the expectation that meetings could be held and fans who had up until then and after been encouraged to be passionate, that a thousand or so people would sit there and politely clap each speaker.

Of course they were doing to be rowdy, and "heros" from the other side would be bood.

Apparently the melbourne one was worse because each faction had numbers, the hawthorn meeting was perhaps 95% no voters

One of the papers in its new years day editorial said the scenes were "frightening" "un australian" and not allowed to happen again. Obviously someonat that papers nose was still out of joint

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

I have to post this each time the merger topic is raised. I don't know why, it seems the message will never get through. The entire notion that the Hawks could survive alone was an Ian Dicker initiative who funded the project and cleverly utilised Don Scott and Dermott Brereton as front men.

Ian is always a little disappointed that he is never given the credit he deserves.

 

[Pessimistic]

I have to post this each time the merger topic is raised. I don't know why, it seems the message will never get through. The entire notion that the Hawks could survive alone was an Ian Dicker initiative who funded the project and cleverly utilised Don Scott and Dermott Brereton as front men.

Ian is always a little disappointed that he is never given the credit he deserves.

Was mentioned quite a bit in 2008 I thought

 

[Randy Campbell]

The guernsey is Melbourne's colour scheme, marginally bastardised by Hawthorn gold, with the addition of the famous Hawthorn logo.
This is Sheehan showing his true colors.

In my ignorant bubble world.
I like to think, that Sheehan voted yes.
And I helped in stopping him from becoming family.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

I remember the time when Jason Dunstall was a guest on Talking Footy, and he really got stuck into Sheehan. Surprised by Dunstall's attitude, Sheehan asked, "Why do you think I have something against Hawthorn?". Dunstall replied, "Probably because of everything you've written and everything you've said". Sheehan seemed genuinely surprised

I've never forgotten it, and it was possibly the first time I realised that the media don't even realise what they're saying.

 

[Randy Campbell]

I have to post this each time the merger topic is raised. I don't know why, it seems the message will never get through. The entire notion that the Hawks could survive alone was an Ian Dicker initiative who funded the project and cleverly utilised Don Scott and Dermott Brereton as front men.

Ian is always a little disappointed that he is never given the credit he deserves.

I will never forget.

And I am also disappointed because we can never really match the amount of credit he deserves.

He stood up and became a foster parent to the family club.

 

[50metres]

Interesting article by Ricky Nixon:



INSIDE FOOTBALL

http://www.sen.com.au/news/02-16/just-imagine-the-panic#HYuq8vj5ICBomUyh.97


Just imagine the panic…
Ricky Nixon | 23 Feb 2016, 02:48PM
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image: http://www.sen.com.au/media/6882/haw-dees-merger.jpg



I played at the Hawthorn Football Club in 1992 and 1993. The club was at the end of its greatest era having played in 12 consecutive years of finals.

I was lucky enough to play in their last final before the wheels started to fall off.

By 1996 I was three years retired, two years out of Phys Ed teaching at Carey Grammar and well on my way to managing most of the stars of the AFL.

While I had inklings things weren’t flash at Glenferrie Oval and players I managed there were asking questions, never would I have dreamt that the mighty Hawks were on the brink of folding.

Back then the AFL and the clubs had no real communication or disclosure of financial positions with its two most important assets, its players and its members.

For all its success the Hawks still trained at some of the worst facilities in the AFL, had disenfranchised a lot of members by playing home games at the cold lonely Waverley Park and in those days had no membership department.

I lived in Kew, a stone’s throw from Glenferrie Oval, for 25 years. I taught at Carey just up the road and I could see and hear the support of the next generation of Hawks fans coming through, including my own two sons, but unfortunately for Hawthorn not turning this support into financial members was its greatest failure.

I have no doubt whatsoever that the pending merger of the Hawks with Melbourne due to their dire financial positions was the result of one thing only. Lack of financial members.

In 1996 it was estimated that the Hawks had 11,000 to 12,000 members.

Compare that to 2016 when they will have in excess of 70,000—the equal or better than powerhouse Collingwood.

To put it in plainly, the Hawks’ wealthy eastern suburbs supporters were happy to follow their team and boast about the ’80s and early ’90s but not buy a membership.

The club did not engage with them and did not tell the supporters that without their financial support they were only weeks away from being the Melbourne Hawks.

You can only imagine the panic when 50 players (25 from each club) realised they could be delisted, never to play AFL again, if the merger went through.

I was thrust into damage control for my clients (Hawthorn and Melbourne players) even though at that stage I was very much “learning on the job”.

Getting direction or updates from either club was impossible because personnel at both were not getting briefed extensively by their respective boards. The AFL and AFLPA were getting mixed messages and media were delivering much the same.

Suddenly supporters of both clubs realised that the merger was on and the club their grandparents, parents and siblings followed may be no longer.

As a player agent I had to do what was best for my clients and in the circumstances I could not play favourites to any club or administrator.

I had to challenge the AFL (because the AFLPA in those days was a toothless tiger) about where both clubs stood given some players still had up to two years to run on contracts. Would they be paid out? Would the AFL underwrite the contracts if either club folded? Could they go to another club of their choice?

So many questions with no one to answer them.

Back in those days you still had a phone by the side of bed with a cord and rotary dial.

You got a call on your brick-sized mobile phone in an emergency (boy, have things changed). My phone was ringing all night with coaches and football managers from other clubs trying to cash in on the possible demise of the Hawks and Demons.

It was crazy times but exciting at the same time… although my wife didn’t agree and often demanded I put the phone off the hook for the night. If only the footy world knew of the offers for the likes of Jason Dunstall, Shane Crawford, Johnny Platten etc.

Back then the footy public only saw the drama via the front page of the newspapers on their front lawn each morning.

In my case it was usually what had happened 24 hours earlier in my office and only half of what really happened.

Players would be coming to the office on the hour, concerned parents and wives or girlfriends wanted engagement with the clubs, but of course they had shut up shop.

The hard thing for me was they wanted answers and I didn’t have them so had to focus on delivering assurances that if it all went wrong they would be looked after.

While the lack of memberships was the primary reason both clubs lacked cash, the Hawks board was a bit stiff in that it had planned for a few years to open the Waverley Gardens poker machine venue but like in most cases it was taking time—which the Hawks didn’t have.

The frustration was boiling over. Internal arguments aplenty. Here was the possibility of $1 million a year in extra revenue nearly within their grasp but sitting in council hands, and we all know how quickly council and government departments work, don’t we.

After much debate and negotiations behind closed doors amazingly the two clubs met in the last home and away game of 1996 with the Hawks needing to win to make the finals.

It was like a Hollywood movie. You could not have planned a more emotional game nor finish. Jason Dunstall was on fire and kicked 10 goals. David Neitz kicked six for the Demons. It was two points the difference at three-quarter time and when the final siren blew after and electrifying last five minutes the Hawks were victorious by one point.

I sat in the crowd wondering if that was the last time my former club would play as the mighty Hawthorn.

Was that the last time many of my former teammates would wear the brown and gold?

What would happen to premiership history? Who would my son follow now and would the Hawks jumper he was wearing be replaced by a jumper that had not real connection?

When it came to the crunch history will show the Melbourne members voted to merge. The Hawthorn members decided to plough on in hope.

The Waverley Gardens Venue evolved.

Within the next decade Dunstall would join the board and appoint Alastair Clarkson as coach (who amazingly played for Melbourne that night way back in 1996) and after they drafted Luke Hodge, Sam Mitchell, Buddy Franklin, Jordan Lewis and Jarryd Roughead the rest is history.

And I have to avoid talking football to my sons in September