Bluemour Melting Pot XXVI

[The Old Dark Navy's]

As per the Bluemour File OP, this is a thread for discussing Carlton related rumours.
http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/bluemour-file.1085141/

Rumour posters should post their rumours in both threads for those that like just to read rumours and for those that like to have get lost in their rumour files.

Remember ... #Bluemour





Continued from here ...

Bluemour Melting Pot XXV

Continued here ... https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/bluemour-melting-pot-xxvi.1250444/

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Continued here:

Bluemour Melting Pot XXVII

As per the Bluemour File OP, this is a thread for discussing Carlton related rumours. http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/bluemour-file.1085141/ Rumour posters should post their rumours in both threads for those that like just to read rumours and for those that like to have get lost in their...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[Blue Flame]

His vision and disposal by hand is up there with the best in the comp at present. His kicking is middle of the road for his type - you generally don't want him to be the last in a chain of handballs where he ends up having the final kick inside 50, but if he's in the middle of that chain of handballs he's generally putting someone else in a good position to finish.

His running has improved significantly this season. Similar to the way Cripps went from a fairly static contested mid to one who was prepared to tuck the ball under his arm and dash out the back of a contest.

He can be a bit "gimme gimme" when he feels he's in a good position, and definitely shows some obvious frustration when overlooked by teammates. Reckon that's very much a maturity thing, but also a little bit emblematic of Melbourne in general who aren't a particularly "team-first" team.

Centre stoppages with Oliver, Cripps and any third mid with good acceleration and disposal is going to be a handful for opponents. We'll be able to rotate Williams, Walsh, Martin, Fisher and Cunners through to offer that. Possibly Dow and Philp if they have good enough preseasons to warrant selection.

Then we've got contested mid rotations in Setters and Curnow who provide big bodies when either of Cripps or Oliver are elsewhere. Kennedy, JSOS, Stocker and Kemp the depth/developing options in that space.

Plus the crafty but not overly athletic or physically imposing types like Murphy, SPS and Gibbons who will also offer a point of difference when required.

Despite the fact he's not a classy outside mid, Oliver strengthens an area we are still a little bit lacking in, and his ability to bring teammates into play with quick, precise handballs should allow us to get better value out of some of our damaging but not overly prolific outside types.

We could forego Oliver and chase a Whitfield (as an example of a classy outside mid), but then we're still vulnerable to Cripps being injured/suspended/out of form and being unable to actually bring that outside mid into the game enough.

Got sidetracked and decided to put together a little infographic to show how I see it working:

View attachment 995376
Not all of those names fit in the 22, of course, it's just an indication of the layered view I have of the midfield (ball winners, ball users, outside runners) and which players I identify with which type.

- TDK, Cripps, Oliver and rotations from Curnow/Setterfield are the ball winners. They're looking to clear the ball forward if they have to, but otherwise they should be feeding it out to the next group.
- The next group being Walsh, Williams, SPS, Fisher, Cunners and Martin, who are our better ball users going forward, but are also capable of hunting the loose ball - we don't want them on the bottom of the pack, but if they have to get stuck in they will.
- We've then got the genuine outside running types in Murph, Willo, Newnes and Gibbons who should all be holding position on the wings (not getting sucked into the contest).
- And the forward line looks dangerous on either a quick or a calculated entry, with 4 stay-at-home forwards, plus a few rotating through.

Sure, a little working in defence though

 

[BringBackSimmo]

Has Caldwell actually stated he wants to go to *?, all i keep reading is he wants to return to Victoria.

 

[Matty411]

Sorry, Soapy V but I can't help but agree that LOB would be better off at another club at this stage. Dow may have been injured so should be given 2021 to persist with. But LOB deserves a crack elsewhere - maybe Norf or Dees if they'd be interested.

 

[RAPPA]

If we pull off Clarry, then with 3 coming in that’d surely be stumps for us.

 

[carlton_99]

Riley Beveridge from afl.com.au matching info here that he believes a Carlton Geelong pick swap will happen fairly quickly in the trade period to unlock the Saad deal.

Do you have a link for that.. would love to read the article

 

[SurreyBlue]

Yep, Oliver is a People trying time downplay him here do not understand football.

Will be like having 2 Cripps, one a very good mark and one with a bit of leg speed...both with an insatiable desire for the footy


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I have a problem with this point.
People watch footy and you can throw up stats to prove a point but sometimes stats can be very misleading.
There are game breakers who don't need 30+ stats to make there mark in a game and there are accumulators that don't impact a game that much.
Oliver is a very good player and accumulates plenty of the ball but i don't believe he has the same impact on his possessions as say Cripps does.

 

[bluemahogany]

Do you have a link for that.. would love to read the article

Trade radio

 

[reubs1066]

Trade McGovern. Dees need a forward and look at6 his highlights...

Trade him for what? A bag of stale peanuts?

Better to retain him, get him bloody fit and he'll perform.

 

[carlton_99]

Trade radio

Did he give what the pick swap could potentially be? And please tell me Goddard and co were flabbergasted after they were saying a straight swap for 7 is fair

 

[Pablito]

we would literally get a bottle of gatorade for him (and not the big one).

Don't say that too loudly, he might hear you.

Great kick of the footy and great runner. Not much else there, allergic to contested footy and his best spot isn't clear. Worth nothing on the open market.

 

[Brackets]

I'm more interested in who is the next Newnes we're targetting rather than Oliver.

 

[NavySteel]

Here's an unpopular opinion: If we're serious about Oliver, we have to get used to the idea that a quality player might move with pick(s).

It's no use trying to sell off potential and picks when Melbourne are pretty much at the same level in their list development as us (FWIW, I think our player's ceilings are far, far higher than Melbourne's).

No use saying "why not McG or LOB or Dow" who have either a) had a poor year(s), or b) have potential, but undemonstrated consistency in the top flight.

Put yourselves in Melbourne's list management's shoes for the moment - would you be happy to accept Pick 7 and McG for a gun inside mid?

It'd be like them giving us next yrs 1st round and ANB for Cripps.

As much as I hate it, you gotta give quality to get quality. Neale Freo -> Bris trade comparison probably irrelevant to an extent with respect to trading of picks, given Freo were hitting the draft. Brisbane were extremely savvy in their list management in this aspect...

 

[bluemahogany]

Did he give what the pick swap could potentially be? And please tell me Goddard and co were flabbergasted after they were saying a straight swap for 7 is fair

Haha i've told myself I will not be listening to goddard or cornes in the morning. He didn't say what picks.

 

[SurreyBlue]

It would be LOB - not fussed. His efforts against Adelaide were laughable

I'm going on record to say I like this kid and feel he is a very good footballer.
Having said that, I think we have destroyed him. Not sure how or why, although I do have my thoughts, but the kid that played against Adelaide was not the same kid I saw running around in his first year. Very, very sad state of affairs.

 

[skadoosh]

Here's an unpopular opinion: If we're serious about Oliver, we have to get used to the idea that a quality player might move with pick(s).

It's no use trying to sell off potential and picks when Melbourne are pretty much at the same level in their list development as us (FWIW, I think our player's ceilings are far, far higher than Melbourne's).

No use saying "why not McG or LOB or Dow" who have either a) had a poor year(s), or b) have potential, but undemonstrated consistency in the top flight.

Put yourselves in Melbourne's list management's shoes for the moment - would you be happy to accept Pick 7 and McG for a gun inside mid?

It'd be like them giving us next yrs 1st round and ANB for Cripps.

As much as I hate it, you gotta give quality to get quality. Neale Freo -> Bris trade comparison probably irrelevant to an extent with respect to trading of picks, given Freo were hitting the draft. Brisbane were extremely savvy in their list management in this aspect...

Agree, that Melbourne can and should ask the question. But I would not trade any talls + Walsh for Oliver or an A-grade mid ie. Weitering, McKay and Charlie + Walsh and Cripps (obviously) off the table. Anyone else is fair game.
Happy to accept that the trade may not get done if we aren't willing to offer up one of the above names.

 

[Pablito]

Here's an unpopular opinion: If we're serious about Oliver, we have to get used to the idea that a quality player might move with pick(s).

It's no use trying to sell off potential and picks when Melbourne are pretty much at the same level in their list development as us (FWIW, I think our player's ceilings are far, far higher than Melbourne's).

No use saying "why not McG or LOB or Dow" who have either a) had a poor year(s), or b) have potential, but undemonstrated consistency in the top flight.

Put yourselves in Melbourne's list management's shoes for the moment - would you be happy to accept Pick 7 and McG for a gun inside mid?

It'd be like them giving us next yrs 1st round and ANB for Cripps.

As much as I hate it, you gotta give quality to get quality. Neale Freo -> Bris trade comparison probably irrelevant to an extent with respect to trading of picks, given Freo were hitting the draft. Brisbane were extremely savvy in their list management in this aspect...

I could see it being 2 firsts and SPS/Marchbank.

 

[HARKER]

I'm going on record to say I like this kid and feel he is a very good footballer.
Having said that, I think we have destroyed him. Not sure how or why, although I do have my thoughts, but the kid that played against Adelaide was not the same kid I saw running around in his first year. Very, very sad state of affairs.

How do you mean destroyed him?
Destroyed his development? Destroyed his spirit? Destroyed his opportunity?

He hasn't even left yet but couldn't blame him if he wanted to go, for lack of opportunity.
It was evident this would be the case when we took on Newnes last year. We just didn't think he was ready.

 

[Blue and Blue]

I have a problem with this point.
People watch footy and you can throw up stats to prove a point but sometimes stats can be very misleading.
There are game breakers who don't need 30+ stats to make there mark in a game and there are accumulators that don't impact a game that much.
Oliver is a very good player and accumulates plenty of the ball but i don't believe he has the same impact on his possessions as say Cripps does.

Robbert Klomp...got a tele for half a dozen winning touches.......rightly so too.

 

[BringBackSimmo]

Trade him for what? A bag of stale peanuts?

Better to retain him, get him bloody fit and he'll perform.

I'm not sure we should deal with someone, that is offering stale peanuts.

 

[gab213]

This is what i hate about Big Footy, idiots showing no respect to players and their family's.

It's the internet Rob, these people clearly think they can be as rude as they like. I don't know how difficult it is to type something like, 'I don't think he holds much trade currency at this point'. I guess it's too hard for some to be decent about things.

 

[swuzzlebubble]

I'm more interested in who is the next Newnes we're targetting rather than Oliver.

Sexton?

 

[Canyouhearthedrums]

Here's an unpopular opinion: If we're serious about Oliver, we have to get used to the idea that a quality player might move with pick(s).

It's no use trying to sell off potential and picks when Melbourne are pretty much at the same level in their list development as us (FWIW, I think our player's ceilings are far, far higher than Melbourne's).

No use saying "why not McG or LOB or Dow" who have either a) had a poor year(s), or b) have potential, but undemonstrated consistency in the top flight.

Put yourselves in Melbourne's list management's shoes for the moment - would you be happy to accept Pick 7 and McG for a gun inside mid?

It'd be like them giving us next yrs 1st round and ANB for Cripps.

As much as I hate it, you gotta give quality to get quality. Neale Freo -> Bris trade comparison probably irrelevant to an extent with respect to trading of picks, given Freo were hitting the draft. Brisbane were extremely savvy in their list management in this aspect...

Yep - that Melbourne are in mix for finals is a real roadblock, picks will hold less interest unless they have another player they are targetting.

 

[Motsfan]

Here's an unpopular opinion: If we're serious about Oliver, we have to get used to the idea that a quality player might move with pick(s).

It's no use trying to sell off potential and picks when Melbourne are pretty much at the same level in their list development as us (FWIW, I think our player's ceilings are far, far higher than Melbourne's).

No use saying "why not McG or LOB or Dow" who have either a) had a poor year(s), or b) have potential, but undemonstrated consistency in the top flight.

Put yourselves in Melbourne's list management's shoes for the moment - would you be happy to accept Pick 7 and McG for a gun inside mid?

It'd be like them giving us next yrs 1st round and ANB for Cripps.

As much as I hate it, you gotta give quality to get quality. Neale Freo -> Bris trade comparison probably irrelevant to an extent with respect to trading of picks, given Freo were hitting the draft. Brisbane were extremely savvy in their list management in this aspect...

I’d be having a chat to Ed Curnow. He’d be a walk up start in the Dees 22, and Oliver would most likely kick him out of our midfield somewhat. Ed plus a first round pick would be reasonable compo.


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[StandByyourMan]

This is what i hate about Big Footy, idiots showing no respect to players and their family's.

Fair call. I will pull it down. Sorry I didnt mean offence - it was poor.

 

[NavySteel]

Yep - that Melbourne are in mix for finals is a real roadblock, picks will hold less interest unless they have another player they are targetting.

Indeed and great point.

One hopes that they are targeting Wines.