Blues to receive financial assistance

[WinningBlues]

Firstly, I thought this had to go before all the other AFL presidents before approval could be granted for such a substantial outlay. Fine if Carlton gets their $10 million handout but the other 15 clubs should now be asking for a similar handout to maintain matters on an even keel.

$10 million handout now? and why do the other AFL presidents need to be confided in before a decision on any assistance? Did other clubs which actually already receive assistance need the approval or notification of other clubs before receiving anything?

 

[WinningBlues]

It has nothing to do with it & I didn't say it did. My comment was simply in relation to the popular myth that the AFL are the source of your troubles.

It was a comment in reply to comments in this thread on that popular myth. Maybe you should try reading ALL the posts in this thread again.

Why even bring up this so called myth when it wasn't relevant to the thread. More of a thinly veiled attempt to get into Blues supporters. Why don't you just stick to the topic.

$10m over the next 3 years (for a start).

If the AFL take on the lease then it will be a damn sight more long term. It will be interesting to see if the AFL allow you to keep the 2 bob naming rights contract if they take over the ground.

And when are Carlton receiving this money? Has it been already decided? Did you read the link to the article I posted? The AFL are actually still determining the kind of assistance the club will receive. No mention of what or how much that will be.
If the AFL do take over the lease it will be long term but as I had stated earlier it will be of benefit to lower level football.
What is your point on the naming rights of MC Labour Park? If the AFL decide to take up the lease and want to ditch the name, MC Labour Park, then they will have to pay them I would assume.

Since when? They clearly didn't need it this year.

Maybe since they signed off on the new TV rights deal and have realised if something goes wrong they will get their pants sued off them. Who knows? Maybe even in the TV rights contract there could be a clause for the AFL to have to be prepared in case one of the other grounds becomes unavailable.

Ground surface is a non-issue. What do you want seating for? Seagulls?

Most of the stands at Princes Park are in that poor a state you may as well bulldoze and start again. The one stand that is in good nick has proven to be a poor option for spectators at the ground.

If you think the AFL will EVER play games at Princes Park again you are dreaming.

How is the ground surface a non-issue? Seems every year questions are raised about the Telstra Dome ground surface. Is it not plausible that Telstra Dome could be at some stage deemed not up to standard?
The stands aren't all that bad at MC Labour Park but obviously when comparing them to the MCG or Telstra Dome they aren't too flash. I'm sure its still a better place to watch the footy for TAC and VFL matches than at a suburban ground.
I think most supporters of other clubs hated going there more with the fact it was owned by the Blues.
We will see on if the AFL ever change their mind on playing games at the venue (MC Labour Park). They have already said they are looking at taking over the lease to use as an emergency ground which implies it could be used.

Nothing wrong with that, but there are far better options around that would be far cheaper. Princes Park cannot support lights and cannot expand its car parking facilities. It is the most expensive option and least practical option for this sort of purpose.

What options do you suggest? MC Labour Park could support lights but the residents and council would not approve it. If the AFL took over the lease and facilities were upgraded why not put an underground car park in place (originally one of Elliott's ideas). If not it wouldn't matter as games had previously been played their before and their is parking that is made available.
Also the costs of upgrading facilities would not all fall on the AFL but also on the council.

 

[Vandenbergfan]

If the AFL do take over the lease it will be long term but as I had stated earlier it will be of benefit to lower level football.

Your correct in identifying Carlton as the sole beneficiary and they definitely do play a lower level football.

 

[Collingwoodrow]

I don't object to Carlton receiving assistance from the AFL anymore than I do other clubs - as long as they are forced to meet the same cost reductions and maximum salary cap restrictions as the other teams receiving payments.

As for purchasing PP from Carlton....no way. This is Carlton simply looking for a gift from the AFL in exchange for a field they don't need.

Surely if the AFL required a third ground in the future for any reason they could approach Carlton about leasing the facilty for whenever it was required. Why would the AFL need to purchase a field "just in case"?

As far as conducting VFL, TAC cup games there......there are plenty of grounds those can be played on.

Carlton are not entitled to any favours outside the norm.

Perhaps Carlton should look into selling their draft picks? Im sure clubs would bid for the 17th pick in the draft next year....the NBA use to trade players for cash.

 

[mediumsizered]

I don't object to Carlton receiving assistance from the AFL anymore than I do other clubs - as long as they are forced to meet the same cost reductions and maximum salary cap restrictions as the other teams receiving payments.

As for purchasing PP from Carlton....no way. This is Carlton simply looking for a gift from the AFL in exchange for a field they don't need.

Surely if the AFL required a third ground in the future for any reason they could approach Carlton about leasing the facilty for whenever it was required. Why would the AFL need to purchase a field "just in case"?

As far as conducting VFL, TAC cup games there......there are plenty of grounds those can be played on.
Carlton are not entitled to any favours outside the norm.

Perhaps Carlton should look into selling their draft picks? Im sure clubs would bid for the 17th pick in the draft next year....the NBA use to trade players for cash.

Please name these other grounds and when you do make sure you consider the playing surface, the proximity to Melbourne, particularly for the interstate U18 sides that are playing there during the U18 championships. Did I mention the playing surface? One of the few grounds available where the centre of the ground isn't hard as a rock because of cricket pitches and where the surface all over is even, which should minimise the chance of serious injuries to the elite junior players.

BTW, the Carlton Football Club have not been getting a cent towards the maintenance of these facilities from those that have been using it.

 

[Rob]

I don't object to Carlton receiving assistance from the AFL anymore than I do other clubs - as long as they are forced to meet the same cost reductions and maximum salary cap restrictions as the other teams receiving payments.

And sell home games. I hear Southport is offering.

As for purchasing PP from Carlton....no way. This is Carlton simply looking for a gift from the AFL in exchange for a field they don't need.

Surely if the AFL required a third ground in the future for any reason they could approach Carlton about leasing the facilty for whenever it was required. Why would the AFL need to purchase a field "just in case"?

They don't, that's just a bullsh*t excuse and everyone knows it. There's more logic in purchasing a ground in Perth or Adelaide, as neither city actually has another ground. If the MCG or TD collapses (which is a million to one chance anyway) additional games could be scheduled at Kardinia Park.

 

[Collingwoodrow]

Please name these other grounds and when you do make sure you consider the playing surface, the proximity to Melbourne, particularly for the interstate U18 sides that are playing there during the U18 championships. Did I mention the playing surface? One of the few grounds available where the centre of the ground isn't hard as a rock because of cricket pitches and where the surface all over is even, which should minimise the chance of serious injuries to the elite junior players.

BTW, the Carlton Football Club have not been getting a cent towards the maintenance of these facilities from those that have been using it.

Take your pick form the MCG, Telstra Dome, Kadinia Park, Port Melbourne, Williamstown, Preston, Frankston, Box Hill etc etc. A marginally superior surface at PP(um..yeah, you did mention it) is hardly a reason for the AFL to buy the ground.

Why would anyone be paying for Carlton to maintain a ground they lease out? If I jump in a cab....do I pay the driver to fill his tank? No, this is incorporated into the fee I pay to use the service (B.O. and the usual wrong turns are free from charge!).

 

[garth p]

Blues meet on finances

No word on what kind of assistance the club will receive but it does sound good for the club.
Thoughts on receiving assistance? I don't see why they shouldn't give some sort of help if they need it. The Carlton Football Club has helped alot in making the competition what it is today and other clubs have also benefitted from the AFL's help.
The argument that it was all the clubs own fault, to me, doesn't stick. It is true, but then whose fault is it for other clubs who receive assistance? Just because we were a stronger club with more supporters doesn't mean we should be treated differently if we need help. Also people will go on about the cheating. Thats all done and buried. We have copped the punishment and now we move on.
Another good argument for the Club to receive assistance from the AFL is the use of MC Labour Park (Princes Park). Why should the club take care of all the upkeep expenses when it is also used for AFL practice matches, TAC matches, VFL matches. Surely the AFL should help or provide the money for the upkeep of the ground as it would be putting back into the game by allowing those lower levels to play there. Why do Carlton have to pay for the all the costs when lower level aussie rules matches which do not involve them are played.
If no assistance for the ground is given they should stop all matches from any level being played there. They can go and try hire Telstra Dome and see how they like that. Like it or not, the oval has one of the best surfaces to play footy in Australia. It makes good sense to keep the place in good condition. If I was Carlton I'd also be arguing for help in renovating the whole place to make it even more attractive.
In the end Carlton will be given assistance as they are an important part of the greater Victorian scheme of the AFL. Its the smaller supporter based Victorian clubs that have to worry.

I would not give them one red cent. It would make a mockery of the fine imposed upon the cheating scum for salary cap breaches. Let them rot, or make them relocate.

 

[Portia]

So...now that the AFL have determined that all clubs are not equal, can we off the CBF for perennial stragglers?

 

[WinningBlues]

I don't object to Carlton receiving assistance from the AFL anymore than I do other clubs - as long as they are forced to meet the same cost reductions and maximum salary cap restrictions as the other teams receiving payments.

As for purchasing PP from Carlton....no way. This is Carlton simply looking for a gift from the AFL in exchange for a field they don't need.

Surely if the AFL required a third ground in the future for any reason they could approach Carlton about leasing the facilty for whenever it was required. Why would the AFL need to purchase a field "just in case"?

As far as conducting VFL, TAC cup games there......there are plenty of grounds those can be played on.

Carlton are not entitled to any favours outside the norm.

Perhaps Carlton should look into selling their draft picks? Im sure clubs would bid for the 17th pick in the draft next year....the NBA use to trade players for cash.

Collingwoodrow. The Carlton Football Club do not actually own the ground but lease it from the Melbourne Council. The plan is to sell off the lease to the AFL as it is pointless for the club to be paying for the upkeep of the ground when they no longer play there. As they no longer play there there is no extra income from the Social Club and we don't receive income from other games that are played there. e.g. AFL practice matches, TAC games, VFL games. The Club is trying to argue that its in the interests of the AFL to take up the ground lease and it is not fair that they should foot all of the upkeep of the grounds.

TAC and VFL games are played elsewhere but the ground is usually used when they play finals. People can argue all they like but MC Labour Park is the 3rd best stadium in Melbourne and with the best playing surface.
IMO the AFL took a dislike for it because Carlton had so much control over it, there were not enough TV cameras around the ground and the ground was not allowed to have lights.
The AFL can now have the ground for whatever plans they desire and can also help to prop up a club which they would rather see doing well as this would make the competition stronger.

Selling draft picks?? I don't think so.

 

[WinningBlues]

I would not give them one red cent. It would make a mockery of the fine imposed upon the cheating scum for salary cap breaches. Let them rot, or make them relocate.

Haha. The St Kilda Football Club will be long dead before the Blues go anywhere. You need to face reality, the AFL knows the potential a strong Carlton would be, so will help them. Once we are back on the up the likeliness of us getting into more financial trouble would be low and the AFL can see this. We are not one of the clubs who are perrenially financially handicapped because of a small supporter base.

 

[WinningBlues]

Take your pick form the MCG, Telstra Dome, Kadinia Park, Port Melbourne, Williamstown, Preston, Frankston, Box Hill etc etc. A marginally superior surface at PP(um..yeah, you did mention it) is hardly a reason for the AFL to buy the ground.

Why would anyone be paying for Carlton to maintain a ground they lease out? If I jump in a cab....do I pay the driver to fill his tank? No, this is incorporated into the fee I pay to use the service (B.O. and the usual wrong turns are free from charge!).

The MC Labour Park surface is not only marginally better than quite a few of those grounds you have mentioned. I'll give you the MCG, Kardinia and Box Hill but then Box Hill is not a stadium. How many people can you fit into those places compared to MC Labour Park?
If the AFL put abit of money into it, in conjunction with the Melbourne Council, the place would be more than up to standard to play even AFL again. I would love to know the comparision between MC Labour Park and the grounds of sold interstate AFL matches. i.e. Launceston, Canberra, etc..
Why is it the AFL did not want us playing there and now they are interested in the place themselves?

 

[Rob]

Haha. The St Kilda Football Club will be long dead before the Blues go anywhere. You need to face reality, the AFL knows the potential a strong Carlton would be, so will help them. Once we are back on the up the likeliness of us getting into more financial trouble would be low and the AFL can see this. We are not one of the clubs who are perrenially financially handicapped because of a small supporter base.

Whilst the attitude that Carlton are a big club remains, the likelihood of getting into deep financial sh*t again is high. Carlton have to accept they are not a big club in the league and have to start acting like it. Acting like a big club without the clout to back themselves up is what got them into this sh*t in the first place. Building stands, signing long term expensive leases, spending big on players and coaches. These are things that only rich and powerful clubs can afford to do. Carlton can not. If they don't accept that then they're going to be back in the same position in 10 years.

 

[shintemaster]

$10 million handout now? and why do the other AFL presidents need to be confided in before a decision on any assistance? Did other clubs which actually already receive assistance need the approval or notification of other clubs before receiving anything?

I don't remember getting $10M, if North had that sort of money guaranteed over 3 years we would be viable for at least 25 years without breaking a sweat. I would think that the AFL might be leaving itself open to possible legal action if they handed over this sort of money while holding several other clubs over the barrell to get yearly handouts.

 

[AndSmithMustScore]

It has nothing to do with it & I didn't say it did. My comment was simply in relation to the popular myth that the AFL are the source of your troubles.

They are.

They introduced a salary cap.

 

[KnaveyBlue]

You don't become a billionaire by bailing out your club every time they look like they're on shaky ground.

Especially not when you know the AFL are obligated to pick up the cheque anyway

 

[JeffDunne]

They are.

They introduced a salary cap.

But you weren't playing by the rules.

You won a bottom spoon paying over the cap. In 2003 you would have been $1.5M over the cap (Collo said as much when asking players to take a pay cut).

How does a rule that you didn't obey be responsible for your demise? When you consider other clubs that were following the rules played at a competitive disadvantage it's a nonsense to claim the salary cap rules lead to your demise. Was the salary cap responsible for building a grand stand at a ground supporters refused to attend?

Ironically the very same ground that's now being used as an excuse to bail you out is the ground that sent you broke because people refused to attend.

 

[mediumsizered]

Take your pick form the MCG, Telstra Dome, Kadinia Park, Port Melbourne, Williamstown, Preston, Frankston, Box Hill etc etc. A marginally superior surface at PP(um..yeah, you did mention it) is hardly a reason for the AFL to buy the ground.

Why would anyone be paying for Carlton to maintain a ground they lease out? If I jump in a cab....do I pay the driver to fill his tank? No, this is incorporated into the fee I pay to use the service (B.O. and the usual wrong turns are free from charge!).

Who said anything about the AFL buying the ground. The ground is not available to be bought or sold. All I was highlighting was the fact that Princes Park is the next best option after the MCG & TD for hosting the TAC Under 18 National Championships, if you are wanting the elite junior players to be playing on a ground that is of AFL standard, knowing full well that they won't be allowed on the MCG or TD. The VFL continue to show their support for the ground by playing their GF there. Both the TAC & VFL could use the other grounds you nominate, but they don't. They choose Princes Park for a reason. The AFL is very aware of that and that is why they would contemplate taking on the lease.

 

[DDC City West]

Go to HELL CARLTON. You will not get any assistance from the AFL. You are a club that has cheated and rorted the system and now you want to be bailed out of the S H I T that you only you have created. GO TO HELL.

There are quite a few VIC teams that have had huge debts who have traded out of trouble without any help from the AFL. There were 2 other VIC teams that couldn't trade their way out of trouble and the AFL forced them out of existence.

If Carlton are to survive, (and I hope they don't), they should do it on their own. If they are such a huge club with Millionaire benefactors it should be easy for them to recover. They won't need any assistance from the AFL.

As I have stated before, if the AFL attempt to give any special assistance to Carlton, then the commission should be removed immediately.

Carlton lived by the sword, they should die by the sword.
(GO TO HELL).

 

[morgoth]

If the AFL need the ground there is no need to pay for it.

Just withdraw any support/guarentees from the Blues, they will then go into receivership and then liquidation.

Once they have been liquidated they can make an offer to the council to lease the ground. Bet it would not be $1.8m. Blues can then be re-birthed etc.

Why should the AFL give money away on an uncommercial deal just becasue a club stuffed up.

 

[Uhumagoo]

Another amusing read, keep up the good work.

 

[DG-Man]

Go to HELL CARLTON. You will not get any assistance from the AFL. You are a club that has cheated and rorted the system and now you want to be bailed out of the S H I T that you only you have created. GO TO HELL.

There are quite a few VIC teams that have had huge debts who have traded out of trouble without any help from the AFL. There were 2 other VIC teams that couldn't trade their way out of trouble and the AFL forced them out of existence.

If Carlton are to survive, (and I hope they don't), they should do it on their own. If they are such a huge club with Millionaire benefactors it should be easy for them to recover. They won't need any assistance from the AFL.

As I have stated before, if the AFL attempt to give any special assistance to Carlton, then the commission should be removed immediately.

Carlton lived by the sword, they should die by the sword.
(GO TO HELL).

Moan Moan Boring, just because you did a little bit of housework!

What.... a little bit???

 

[WinningBlues]

I don't remember getting $10M, if North had that sort of money guaranteed over 3 years we would be viable for at least 25 years without breaking a sweat. I would think that the AFL might be leaving itself open to possible legal action if they handed over this sort of money while holding several other clubs over the barrell to get yearly handouts.

I don't remember Carlton getting $10 million either. I wouldn't listen to any numbers being sprouted off, usually posters on here, until you hear something official. A decision on what assistance Carlton will receive has not been made.
As for legal action, I don't think the AFL has to worry about anything like that. If Carlton go to the CBF then they will have to follow the lead of the other Clubs before them. I can see your point if they received money from the CBF and didn't have to go through the same cutbacks as your Club.
I think the way Carlton will be able to get somewhat out of its financial hole is to get the sale of the lease through to the AFL.

 

[WinningBlues]

Go to HELL CARLTON. You will not get any assistance from the AFL. You are a club that has cheated and rorted the system and now you want to be bailed out of the S H I T that you only you have created. GO TO HELL.

There are quite a few VIC teams that have had huge debts who have traded out of trouble without any help from the AFL. There were 2 other VIC teams that couldn't trade their way out of trouble and the AFL forced them out of existence.

If Carlton are to survive, (and I hope they don't), they should do it on their own. If they are such a huge club with Millionaire benefactors it should be easy for them to recover. They won't need any assistance from the AFL.

As I have stated before, if the AFL attempt to give any special assistance to Carlton, then the commission should be removed immediately.

Carlton lived by the sword, they should die by the sword.
(GO TO HELL).

Please refer to the original article link. WE ARE GOING TO GET ASSISTANCE!
Better get yourself down to the AFL commission and demand their resignations. I'll be listening to the news to hear of their imminient demise.

 

[WinningBlues]

If the AFL need the ground there is no need to pay for it.

Just withdraw any support/guarentees from the Blues, they will then go into receivership and then liquidation.

Once they have been liquidated they can make an offer to the council to lease the ground. Bet it would not be $1.8m. Blues can then be re-birthed etc.

Why should the AFL give money away on an uncommercial deal just becasue a club stuffed up.

AFL and other Clubs can not and will not let Carlton just die off. The TV rights deal being one of the legal reasons and also the loss of a big money spinner to the other clubs (gate receipts) and the AFL being another.
If the AFL want the lease to MC Labour Park they will have to pay for it and IMO they want it.
They basically forced a move when they told the Club they wouldn't fixture games there once the contract expired and gave incentives to move (Money and the promise to help with upgrading facilities once we moved, which is now convieniently on hold).
The AFL will not be giving money away. MC Labour Park with its location and infrastructure can be turned into a state of the art facility that can be used for all lower and upper levels of football, including AFL. The AFL would in fact be getting a very important ground in regards to Victorian football for a cheap price.
They are killing two birds with one stone, as they will be able to help Carlton financially (benefits all) and acquire the lease to an important piece of real-estate for Victorian football.