Autopsy Blues V Demons Rant/Vent thread. Trolls/Lurking likers beware.

[The Old Dark Navy's]

I must say, these "autopsy" threads are becoming much too regular. It looks like the season is already turning into one long autopsy.

There's not really anything else to do. Supporters are stunned for the most part. Can't really talk positives in the performances the last two weeks.

 

[BlueTongue]

There are two types of Captains - those that can lift a side when the side needs lifting and those that can organise a side when it needs organising. Murphy is neither - the players have allowed him to be whacked by opposition sides since he was made captain - and this pretty much proves how little respect the Carlton playing group has for Murphy as captain - Murph will have to re-engineer his whole on field game style and attitude in order to earn the respect of the side.

Simpson and Carrazzo were the logical captain choices - the Board went with a perceived marketing advantage instead....Malthouse bringing in Thomas hasn't helped the situation as far as teh older carlton players are concerned - just another salary injustice.

Make no mistake - salary and compensation anomalies at Carlton have fractured the team for years - THIS has to be fixed ASAP.

Disagree. Murphy was also in the logical choices. I suspect the Board went with what the suspect would have been a tactic to help re-sign him, and he was probably considered the Members 1st choice on popularity (I would have chosen Murph back then too). Agreed he hasn't had the best start, and Simmo would be my choice in hindsight, but we are a club that's been under the pump for a while now, so until we start playing for each other and playing as a cohesive unit, it isn't going to mean shit who's Captain.

 

[DanWA]

It frustrates me how many supporters are hanging blame on Malthouse

Please divert your anger to the Carlton leadership group (or lack there of)

How did Murphy get the captaincy?

 

[Blue Bloods]

I must admit I felt moved to apologise to my grandson for taking him to yesterday's game & I sort of feel guilty for indoctrinating him into my Navy Blue ways, because at the moment you couldn't blame a young kid for either wanting to support one of the consistently successful teams, or just not bothering at all with following the AFL.

I very rarely agree with Bruce Mathieson, but his comments after yesterday's game were spot on. Many of the players are on "Rolls Royce money", yet their performances so far this season are more akin to a Leyland P76. Not good enough.

I live in Perth and been a Carlton supporter/Member since Ken Hunter was playing.

Have two young kids (my boy I called Kade) they get intense pressure from school, wife, grandparents to follow Dockers or Eagle. I told my wife not putting them through this shite and they can go for the Dockers.

About 1/2 hour after that they both came out with their Carlton stuff on, bless their hearts

 

[Blue since 72]

We have a serious problem with our culture, the players obviously don't want to buy-in to what the coach is selling.

Agreed and it's happened over and over with different coaches but for mine it's more about the player's attitude toward each other rather than the message the coach is selling.

At their best under Ratten they were still very inconsistent and didn't show evidence of playing together and for each other.

Nothing has changed under Malthouse.

Somehow the club Has managed to recruit a bunch of selfish, self absorbed people who seem to see playing footy as just a job.

There would obviously be exceptions and Simpson would be one example, at least on the field but they're along way from having a crictical mass of players who see the game, the jumper and each other as anything more than a business, a company and work collegues.

It's a shame because there will be no possibility of a premiership until we do have a bunch of guys who want to emotionally invest in each other, the game and the club.

 

[Blue Bloods]

Disagree. Murphy was also in the logical choices. I suspect the Board went with what the suspect would have been a tactic to help re-sign him, and he was probably considered the Members 1st choice on popularity (I would have chosen Murph back then too). Agreed he hasn't had the best start, and Simmo would be my choice in hindsight, but we are a club that's been under the pump for a while now, so until we start playing for each other and playing as a cohesive unit, it isn't going to mean shit who's Captain.

Haven't read this thread so not sure if it has been mentioned, but this is a quote from MM

Malthouse defended the decision to use Marc Murphy in attack for a fair slice of the game in a fruitless effort to keep his opponent Nathan Jones out of the play.

“We had to sacrifice him (Murphy) by going forward to take Jones,” he said.

So Mick every time Murphy has an okay opponent you will camp our only possible A grader midfielder in the goal square to keep them out of the play, it is imposable to play a hard captains game from deep forward, when you are a midfielder. And he did this early in the game.

Not saying MM is the problem, but some of his decisions are mind boggling

 

[Azul]

He has earned enough respect and has enough credits in the bank to make me believe he knows what he's doing, even with this difficult start to the season.

Sorry, but I don't buy into the argument that he's too old or out of touch with the modern game. Quite frankly, that's complete and utter garbage. You don't have to be young to be a good coach. There are examples of why this is garbage in every sport around the world - including in the sport we love.

People defended Denis Pagan for a long time too. Past coaching deeds mean nothing.

Malthouse is paid to teach and motivate the playing group. If standards, skills and morale have slipped since last season then it's his responsibility to get the players all on the same page.

What immediate plans does he have for renewal that he hasn't put into place in the past month? A Knee-jerk response such as dropping Garlett and Waite did not work. What hope can he give supporters that a line in the sand has been drawn and we'll beat Footscray?

Maybe I'm selfish but I just want to see a win on the weekend. Mick's insipid press conferences don't fill me with any confidence that he has a plan. Is it worth the $25 general admission? I hate that Etihad shithole at the best of times...

 

[Blue Bloods]

People defended Denis Pagan for a long time too. Past coaching deeds mean nothing.

Malthouse is paid to teach and motivate the playing group. If standards, skills and morale have slipped since last season then it's his responsibility to get the players all on the same page.

What immediate plans does he have for renewal that he hasn't put into place in the past month? A Knee-jerk response such as dropping Garlett and Waite did not work. What hope can he give supporters that a line in the sand has been drawn and we'll beat Footscray?

Maybe I'm selfish but I just want to see a win on the weekend. Mick's insipid press conferences don't fill me with any confidence that he has a plan. Is it worth the $25 general admission? I hate that Etihad shithole at the best of times...

Carlton the place old coaches go to die.

 

[BlueTongue]

Haven't read this thread so not sure if it has been mentioned, but this is a quote from MM

Malthouse defended the decision to use Marc Murphy in attack for a fair slice of the game in a fruitless effort to keep his opponent Nathan Jones out of the play.

“We had to sacrifice him (Murphy) by going forward to take Jones,” he said.

So Mick every time Murphy has an okay opponent you will camp our only possible A grader midfielder in the goal square to keep them out of the play, it is imposable to play a hard captains game from deep forward, when you are a midfielder. And he did this early in the game.

Not saying MM is the problem, but some of his decisions are mind boggling

Also illustrates my point about playing for one another more. No-one helps out our No.1 ball winner when he's got a good opponent.

 

[T2B_]

I can't help you with basic comprehension issues dude...but I'll try..

if you bother to actually read what I wrote it goes like this..

two types of captains- match winners and good organisers
Carlton went for neither..

Selwood and Judd are match winner types - lift their sides..
Maxwell is an organiser type - do this do that now!!!

Carlton went for Murphy because he is a good player on occassion and preswnts well photographically. The truth is that Carrazzo is more eloquent, intelligent and well spoken than Murphy, whilst Simpson is a natural leader who busts a gut week in week out.

ok?

Hey, I was agreeing with you in a sense, not arguing with your post. I'm annoyed that a club would choose a captain more on marketing advantage rather than the other logical on-field criteria, that you mention.

 

[Aphrodite]

Malthouse is simply too old guys. His time has passed. Players need a younger voice they can identify with, not someone who is old enough to be their grand dad. IMHO you either need a younger coach who has served an apprenticeship who the players identify with or an experienced coach in his prime. Here is a couple of names for you, John Worsfold has recently said he has not lost the passion to coach an AFL club. Spent two years as an assistant to Parkin at Carlton and rebuilt the Eagles quickly. Bomber Thompson will be available at the end of the year.

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk

NO THANKS*!

 

[Silvagnis]

Also illustrates my point about playing for one another more. No-one helps out our No.1 ball winner when he's got a good opponent.

If Murphy wants to be the captain, then he doesn't need to have his hand held. Only have to look at Jones who is the most experienced mid at a struggling team. Still performs.

Possibly struggling because he doesn't have Judd there to get a tag and draw some of the heat. Pies still have Swan, Pendlebury and Beams who demand an opponent.

Haven't read this thread so not sure if it has been mentioned, but this is a quote from MM

Malthouse defended the decision to use Marc Murphy in attack for a fair slice of the game in a fruitless effort to keep his opponent Nathan Jones out of the play.

“We had to sacrifice him (Murphy) by going forward to take Jones,” he said.

So Mick every time Murphy has an okay opponent you will camp our only possible A grader midfielder in the goal square to keep them out of the play, it is imposable to play a hard captains game from deep forward, when you are a midfielder. And he did this early in the game.

Not saying MM is the problem, but some of his decisions are mind boggling

Sticks was a captain and deep forward.

Williams won a Norm Smith after being taken out of the mifield. You can still kick goals. Mick said Murphy is a noted goal kicker.

Murphy has been smashed in the last two games. You can't blame the coach when he's an elite player and down on form.

 

[Aphrodite]

Have been avoiding this since yesterday.

I'm hurting big time I knew it was bad but now it appears to be really bad.

We have to officially embrace a complete rebuild.

I would allow Mick to make the necessary changes to the list but I would not re-sign him. I think we need to look at assistants from either Geelong or Hawthorn and get the best one to come to our club to coach via an appropriate interview process.

That's very kind of you!

 

[carlton2dabone]

Also illustrates my point about playing for one another more. No-one helps out our No.1 ball winner when he's got a good opponent.

Bullcrap, Murphy has escaped criticism for too long.

Murphy is supposedly 'our best player' and he gets matched up with their captain. Captain on Captain.

If Murphy was winning enough ball through the mid-field he would never have been sent forward. FFS, if he was at least stopping his opponent Jones from winning the ball without getting it himself then he would never have been sent forward.

The only reason he was sent forward was because Jones was ripping his arseh*le a new one.
And MM wanted to get Jones out of the play because Murphy was letting him be way too damaging.

He used to be my favourite player but from what I have seen from him in the last couple of years, I am honestly starting not to like him anymore.

How the Captain of the club can not bother to try and chase his opponent when his opponent runs forward is beyond me. That's the example that Murphy wants to set for the rest of the team.

I keep repeating this because it shows Murphy's game perfectly.

In the second quarter, Jones collected a handball and ran inside 50 and slotted a goal.
Murphy just stood 15 metres away watching, never even took one step forward to try and chase him. Pathetic.

 

[Blue Bloods]

If Murphy wants to be the captain, then he doesn't need to have his hand held. Only have to look at Jones who is the most experienced mid at a struggling team. Still performs.

Possibly struggling because he doesn't have Judd there to get a tag and draw some of the heat. Pies still have Swan, Pendlebury and Beams who demand an opponent.

Sticks was a captain and deep forward.

Williams won a Norm Smith after being taken out of the mifield. You can still kick goals. Mick said Murphy is a noted goal kicker.

Murphy has been smashed in the last two games. You can't blame the coach when he's an elite player and down on form.

Not in our forward line atm.

Murphy can struggle against a hard tag, but I would back him in a head to head match up most times, MM doesn't

 

[Jeremias]

A Knee-jerk response such as dropping Garlett and Waite did not work.

Knee-jerk response? You must be joking.

Waite and Garlett barely fired a shot across the first 3 weeks of the season. Both have been performing well below the level expected of them and deserved to be dropped accordingly, if for nothing else but a wake up call.

They aren't immune to team changes.

 

[Wickzki]

Sorry, but I don't buy into the argument that he's too old or out of touch with the modern game. Quite frankly, that's complete and utter garbage. You don't have to be young to be a good coach. There are examples of why this is garbage in every sport around the world - including in the sport we love.

Without dissecting your top notch post too much I wanted to counter this point.

Pete Carroll just coached the Seattle Seahawks to the NFL Super Bowl champions.... 62 years of age. This makes him the second oldest coach to win the Super Bowl. Carroll inherited a team that went 5-11 in the season before he became head coach. However, the team possessed some talent but he was brought in without false pretenses; he was not brought into a team that expected it to win with the talent that he inherited.

Oldest Winning Super Bowl Coaches
Dick Vermeil, St. Louis - XXXIV (63 yrs, 92 days) -- third season at the helm of the St. Louis Rams. (Kurt Warner's historic season)
Weeb Ewbank, New York Jets - III (61 yrs, 251 days) -- sixth season at the helm of the New York Jets

Oldest Winning Coaches (in other US sports)
NCAA Basketball - Phog Allen, Kansas, Age 66 (1952) - had coached them for 35 years when they won title that year
NBA - Larry Brown, Detroit Pistons, Age 63 - won championship in the first year with the club
NCAA Football - Bobby Bowden, Florida State, Age 69 - had coached them for 23 years when they won title that year
NHL - Scotty Bowman, Detroit Red Wings, Age 68 - had coached them for 10 years when they won title that year
MLB - Jack McKeon, Florida Marlins, Age 72 - won in his first season

In the English Premier League, Sir Alex Ferguson won the league last year at the age of 71 having been in charge at Manchester United for over 25 years (not sure if he's the oldest or not).

What are the common denominators of these championship coaches (not counting Pete Carroll)?

1. They've either won their respective championship early in their tenure at the organisation (Dick Vermeil, Larry Brown, Jack McKeon)
2. They've been at the helm for such a long time that the entire organisation has built their ethos around the coach/manager (Dick Vermeil, Phog Allen, Bobby Bowden, Scotty Bowman, Sir Alex Ferguson).


Those are the oldest winning coaches in a significant number of high profile sports. None of whom were brought into a situation that Malthouse was brought into.

Whilst I agree that you do not have to be young to be a good coach we're not after a 'good coach.' We are after our next premiership coach.

Not one of these managers - save for those who were almost 'career coaches' at the organization that hired them - inherited a list and were then faced with rebuilding it after it failed.

 

[T2B_]

Garlett especially really has disappointed me. I thought with Eddie gone he might relish the opportunity in much the same way he seemed to when Eddie was out injured for that period (last year?).

I remember Jeffy with his first few years with us. Skinny, raw, but surprisingly good mark overhead, applied pressure like no tomorrow and was pretty handy in front of the sticks, even set shots (usually). What the hell happened

 

[Azzurri Blue2]

So the players hate the coach....

So are we gonna give into the players AGAIN and sack another coach??

Mick needs to identify the biggest cancer within the group (the ring leader/leaders) the one that gets into peoples ears etc and relegate them/him to the ressies for the remainder of the season and then piss em off at years end.

The players are the issue here.

Give this team the best game plan ever made and they will still **** it up. These issues are beyond game plans it's leadership, it's personnel, it's drafting, it's development, it's making the wrong decisions year after year.

Just hope Micks got the patience to teach these team of selfish, front running, weak minded players.

If we don't have the best development coachs available keep Gibbs cause if we get 1-2 first round picks for him they will just turn out like the others we have.

 

[Silvagnis]

Not in our forward line atm.

Murphy can struggle against a hard tag, but I would back him in a head to head match up most times, MM doesn't

Right.

Murphy hasn't stood up.

 

[thylacine60]

I live in Perth and been a Carlton supporter/Member since Ken Hunter was playing.

Have two young kids (my boy I called Kade) they get intense pressure from school, wife, grandparents to follow Dockers or Eagle. I told my wife not putting them through this shite and they can go for the Dockers.

About 1/2 hour after that they both came out with their Carlton stuff on, bless their hearts

Kids. Why don't we listen?

 

[thylacine60]

It frustrates me how many supporters are hanging blame on Malthouse

Please divert your anger to the Carlton leadership group (or lack there of)

How did Murphy get the captaincy?

wtf do you care?

 

[BlueBelle]

wtf do you care?

He has a crush on Mick. How cute!!

 

[Chalky Blues]

Whats the point of putting comments on here if the mods just delete them anyways???

 

[Jeremias]

Whats the point of putting comments on here if the mods just delete them anyways???

I see 676 posts which haven't been deleted in this thread.

Dem mods are so unfair.