BOOO-ing Goodes

[jatz14]

As a matter of interest what should a player be allowed to do a crowd without sanction from the AFL? And what should they be able to do to an opposition crowd without expecting any response?

(In response to questions raised by the Goodes/Jetta copies of the dance invented by the teenagers)

Can a dance be described as doing something to someone?

Sorry to intrude. I have not booed him but can understand why people would. If it offends him then it should be stopped. What I do understand if Adam feels the way he does why did he accept Australian of the year.

How does he feel? I would ask him, but it seems your the person to go to.

 

[boondy]

So given the latest statement from the AFL booing of any kind is now vilification.
RIP Norf round

What if you have a tourettes type thing you cant help booing dickheads

 

[Ochre]

Can a dance be described as doing something to someone?

When breakfast TV were doing Gangnam Style a few years back I would've said yes.

 

[jatz14]

As I said, what I've said of them characterizes these folks. Calling ideologues who can't be reasoned with "brainwashed" and "indoctrinated" is descriptive of their nature. Hence its intent isn't derogatory. If these professional victims or their sympathizers take it as derogatory, such would be making my point.

Given you refuse to agree with me as much as I refuse to agree with you, can I call you one of the "bainwashed" and "indocrinated". Is this part of your nature, or a position you adopt specifically for this topic? I am glad that you are accepting that being referred to as a brainwashed indoctrinated sympathiser of the bullies is merely a description, and not at all derogatory.

 

[tesseract]

Given you refuse to agree with me as much as I refuse to agree with you, can I call you one of the "bainwashed" and "indocrinated".

You're free to express your view, so why are you asking me for permission?

Is this part of your nature

Have you got a specific claim to make? If you have, do so?

or a position you adopt specifically for this topic?

Like I've previous said, my characterization of SJW's is based on my observation. It's also based on the research I do into other matters.

 

[Matera92]

Johnson got some pretty harsh treatment from the English crowd last night...

 

[BartBart]

Can a dance be described as doing something to someone?
...

In this case yes. It was self-admittedly aimed at the non-Aboriginal people in the crowd.
To argue otherwise would then (by logic) say that booing someone is also not doing something to someone.

I notice you didn't answer the questions, so I repeat:

What should a player be allowed to do towards the crowd?
What should a player be able to do towards the crowd without expecting a reaction?

 

[WCE_phil]

Ask yourself this very tough and confronting question .....have some balls and ask it

If PHIL Walsh was black would we have seen the same outpouring of emotion

Or another way if you like if Adam Goodes was white would we see the same reaction

Watch this video of kids ....this video I use to educate the community on racism and how it affects people ....I'm an addictions counsellor ...racism leads to addiction for many .....

What has happened to goods is pure racism and I have worked with aboriginal people for 15 years .....and have aboriginal friends ......and this weeks events have saddened me beyond belief.



Ask yourself how did these kids form these views

Why is the bank robber in movies black or the terrorists Middle eastern looking

We have socially engendered our society around beliefs and our kids pick that up really early

Have a great people and be kind to other people....and get rid of the hate .....

I posted a whole long post to try and point out how incredibly disgusted i was that you would trivialise the murder of an AFL coach and the way in which our clubs and supporters came together. But then i just decided that you're a ****ing w***er, Just like goodes.

 

[Fly_High]

What should a player be allowed to do towards the crowd?
What should a player be able to do towards the crowd without expecting a reaction?

It is an interesting question, this article goes into a lot more detail on the debate:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-07-30/bradley-goodes-war-dance-reveals-our-moral-confusion/6657960

It is surely up to the AFL to decide what is acceptable conduct for players on field and we all know how good they are at that (match review panel, tribunal etc)

 

[Dark Sharks]

I daresay the majority of booers don't care if Goodes is black, brown, blue, green or orange.

He's turned the AFL once again into a circus and a platform for his political views. Sam newman hit the nail on the head with his explanation for mine.

http://wwos.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=9013701

 

[Ochre]

I daresay the majority of booers don't care if Goodes is black, brown, blue, green or orange.

He's turned the AFL once again into a circus and a platform for his political views. Sam newman hit the nail on the head with his explanation for mine.

http://wwos.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=9013701

Not sure Newman has a leg to stand on in this debate.

 

[Dark Sharks]

Not sure Newman has a leg to stand on in this debate.

I won't lie, the amount of 'numpties' arguing the case for booing doesn't really fill me with confidence.

Sam Newman, Shane Warne, Alan Jones, Ross Greenwood, Jason Akermanis, Andrew Bolt, Andrew Bogut, Dermott Brereton Eddie Mcguirre.....

Someone weighing in with a brain would be nice

 

[BartBart]

It is an interesting question, this article goes into a lot more detail on the debate:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-07-30/bradley-goodes-war-dance-reveals-our-moral-confusion/6657960

It is surely up to the AFL to decide what is acceptable conduct for players on field and we all know how good they are at that (match review panel, tribunal etc)

Interesting article when some of the rubbish is ignored (how would/could he know if Goodes is probably the least racist person?)

I know players in English football have got into trouble for actions aimed at the crowd (Cantona, salutes, etc). If memory serves me even a Perth Glory player caused issues with a 3 fingered salute.

As previously mentioned I can only remember 2 instances besides Goodes/Jetta (being Winmar & O'Laughlin), although there's bound to be others (feel free to mention them) in AFL/VFL.

It is not something we expect regularly.

Edit: a few players have done the "handcuff" sign & William did his gun goal celebration although these were not really aimed at the crowd.

 

[tumtum]

I daresay the majority of booers don't care if Goodes is black, brown, blue, green or orange.

He's turned the AFL once again into a circus and a platform for his political views. Sam newman hit the nail on the head with his explanation for mine.

http://wwos.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=9013701

"Only people who can handle an unprecedented amount of abuse and bullying should bother standing up for what they believe in".

I agree, what an excellent message to send to Australia, especially young indigenous kids who are unsure about whether they should call out racism or just accept it. Bravo Sam!

 

[Hardhat11]

Dragging Walsh into this is just shit, has nothing to do with the situation.

You're totally missing the point

 

[Hardhat11]

That first bit is terrible, of course there would be the same outpouring of emotion. Do you think that if eddie betts or charlie Cameron or Andrew McLeod had died people would have not grieved because they are non white, that is a racist statement if ever I heard of one.

It is definitely not pure racism. What has happened to goodes hasn't saddened me at all, neither am I happy about it. What has bothered me is calling people racist for booing, I work for an indigenous company and grew up in Balga and played footy for Nollamara and have a lot of indigenous friends. I was at the game on Sunday and didn't boo but that is my choice. Others chose to and that is up to them, Goodes has been bothering the supporters with his antics (spear dance aimed at opposition supporters, acting for free kicks, sniping off the ball) and maybe they are just sick of him

Are most terrorists Moslem? Yes they are, that is why it is shown. Is it racist, no.

What you have just put down on paper is dangerous and it bothers me. I have 2 mixed race children and would hate for them to have views like you.

I didn't put a view forward


I asked a question

 

[Hardhat11]

I posted a whole long post to try and point out how incredibly disgusted i was that you would trivialise the murder of an AFL coach and the way in which our clubs and supporters came together. But then i just decided that you're a ******* ******, Just like goodes.

Your missing the point

I too was deploy affected by Walsh

My Intention is not to offend ....deeply sorry is that's the case


My point is how can we give all this lovely emotion to Walsh yet treat Adam like he's piece of dirt

I can't fathom that

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

I didn't put a view forward


I asked a question

And he answered it. Even though it was an appaling question that didn't require an answer.

 

[westcoastin]

as previously stated, this saga obviously boiled over after the provocative throwing of the spear into the opposition crowd... seriously what type of reaction did he expect after antagonising those on the other side of the fence? applauds? The boo's have never been racially motivated they were reactionary to an aggressive provocation and it has just snowballed from there.

I guarantee that if he did the same thing playing for Australia in the international rules series against the irish he would have the entire country, all supporters from every single club, cheering for him. Why? because he would not be the opposition taunting us but instead he'd be one of us taunting the opposition. Thus proving its not racially motivated. It's basic sporting Neanderthal behaviour and it's as simple as that.

 

[ZergMinion]

as previously stated, this saga obviously boiled over after the provocative throwing of the spear into the opposition crowd... seriously what type of reaction did he expect after antagonising those on the other side of the fence? applauds? The boo's have never been racially motivated they were reactionary to an aggressive provocation and it has just snowballed from there.

I guarantee that if he did the same thing playing for Australia in the international rules series against the irish he would have the entire country, all supporters from every single club, cheering for him. Why? because he would not be the opposition taunting us but instead he'd be one of us taunting the opposition. Thus proving its not racially motivated. It's basic sporting Neanderthal behaviour and it's as simple as that.

Wait...we're all Carlton supporters? When did that happen?

I need a shower...

 

[Ochre]

as previously stated, this saga obviously boiled over after the provocative throwing of the spear into the opposition crowd... seriously what type of reaction did he expect after antagonising those on the other side of the fence? applauds? The boo's have never been racially motivated they were reactionary to an aggressive provocation and it has just snowballed from there.

I guarantee that if he did the same thing playing for Australia in the international rules series against the irish he would have the entire country, all supporters from every single club, cheering for him. Why? because he would not be the opposition taunting us but instead he'd be one of us taunting the opposition. Thus proving its not racially motivated. It's basic sporting Neanderthal behaviour and it's as simple as that.

"If those bloody New Zealanders don't want to be racially vilified by the opposition, they shouldn't do the Haka towards them.

It's as simple as that."

 

[westcoastin]

"If those bloody New Zealanders don't want to be racially vilified by the opposition, they shouldn't do the Haka towards them.

It's as simple as that."

since when is the haka aimed at the opposition crowd?

 

[lewigie]

Ah yes I remember the time that Subi had 50 000 people in it. Great times.
I didn't generalise the entire crowd. I'm a member of that crowd FFS.
Where did I say that the entire crowd was booing?
Where did I say that the entire crowd was booing for one reason?
You argue in hyperbolic nonsense because you've got nothing of substance to say.

No actually my mistake, you just generalised everybody who has ever boo'd Adam Goodes. Apparently the "message is clear" that 'we' all believe your bullshit mantra of: "Don't express your culture to us, don't express your opinion and don't take a stance on racism. Put up and shut up because straya yeah".

Not even just the people who have boo'd Goodes, but everyone who has an opinion on the subject differently to you. They are all racist mindless bigots who think people shouldn't take a stance on racism and hate it when people express their opinion hahahaha. That is generalising mate.

I'm talking about the effect of the booing.
Goodes wasn't being booed the last time he played at Subi. He was loudly booed on the weekend.
What has changed? He did a traditional war dance and expressed his opinion on Australian history.
What message does that send? Don't do a traditional war dance and don't express that opinion on Australian history.
Very simple thing to understand.

Let me ask you this:
Why do you think the booing went from being minimal or non-existent to loud? Did everyone only just realise that he has done a few dodgy things on the field?
What message do you think the booing sends to Adam Goodes and how do you think it makes you feel?

Traditional war dance.. get farked. It is not a traditional war dance and that shows your lack of knowledge on the situation.

If Brendan McCullum came out tomorrow and did the haka to a bloke in the crowd, I would boo the shit out of him. It's a floggish thing to do - just because it has something to do with aboriginal culture does not mean that we can't think a spear throwing dance that was created by teenagers a month ago (that is aimed towards the crowd) is inappropriate without it being racist. Just as if I think that he's a flog for calling that 13 year old girl "the face of racism" that doesn't mean I'm a racist.

I think the booing has sent a message that says "stop being a flog". I appreciate what he is doing in terms of taking a stance on racism, but he has IMO gone about it the wrong ways sometimes and that is why the crowds in Australia have boo'd him.

If you feel the need to ask that question you're not going to understand the answer.

Not even remotely the same thing.
I've enjoyed reading the mental gymnastics that people like you have been doing over the past week.
"Well if it's racist why don't we boo all other Indigenous players?"
"We boo Judd, it's the same thing!"
"We boo the umpires, is that any different?"
If you were around for Nicky Winmar's career you'd be making the same excuses.
If this saga has had any positives, it's been the way that it has drawn the complete and utter idiots out into the light for everyone to see.

"people like me" - I guess i'm another one of those people that you think believe in your mantra of - "Don't express your culture to us, don't express your opinion and don't take a stance on racism. Put up and shut up because straya yeah". That group of people that you have completely made up and assumed exist?

You can boo a player about the actions he has taken and the things he has said about racism and Australian and Aboriginal heritage, and NOT be racist. Is that so hard to understand? Stop your bleeding heart.

This just about sums you up.
Your fun trumps Goodes' and other Indigenous players' ability to play without feeling like shit. Your fun trumps the reputation of the club and the crowd.
You post stuff that would make a 14 year old blush with embarrassment.
You're a selfish, immature idiot.

Well now you're saying that my fun trumps Goodes' and other indigenous player's ability to play without feeling like shit, but then what about if I boo an umpire or Chris Judd or Hayden Ballantyne and "make them feel like shit" ? Does it only matter if they're indigenous? Once again where is your expression of outrage there mate - there hasn't been any because your heart hasn't started bleeding since you stood up on your ****ing soapbox.

 

[Dark Sharks]

Would be nice if people stopped comparing his spear dance to the Haka.

It... Is... Not... The... Same... Thing.

 

[Matera92]

You're totally missing the point

No, I get your point. It was just an incredibly stupid and unneccessary one.