BOOO-ing Goodes

[ZergMinion]

What proportion? 10 people? 38,000 people? Doesn't matter though, does it. All 38,000* West Coast fans at yesterday's game have been labelled as racist by association. That shits me. You can throw the "small portion of the crowd" line as far as you like, the labels have been cast. As I said, it's not sitting well with me.

Do you deny that Goodes' staging yesterday was a bad look? That his actions could have brought on a lot of what came his way by the crowd?

*Of course that didn't factor in what was a solid turnout by the Sydney fans.

Being accused incorrectly of racism is nowhere near as bad as actually having to put up with racism. I was at the game yesterday and if I've been accused of racism I'm fine with it if it leads to change.

 

[bodazoka]

Miranda Devine. Seriously?

Can't wait for the Bolt report on this myself.

 

[The Falcon Strike]

Calling everyone who boos racist is quite clearly wrong and I don't think anyone believes that. As you said, a small group who do it are clearly racist and I believe it is terrible that people believe them thinking Goodes is a flog as somehow more important than taking a stand against a group of people who have no place in today's society. Also it is quite clearly not good sport for the aboriginal players and in particular Adam Goodes himself. Put yourself in Adam Goodes' position, he is being booed and he knows that a certain group of the people are booing him because they believe he is inferior to them due to his aboriginal heritage. Put yourself in the position of any other aboriginal person who sees an aboriginal icon being booed with a racial element. Good sport ey?

Hang on - the reason he was initially targetted for being booed had nothing to do with his race. It was the fact he is the target of booing and being an indigenous man that then brings the racial attacks.

These same clowns are racist towards every tom dick and harry (and Nic) whether they are being booed or not.

There are probably a lot of racists who vote Liberal as well. Should I feel that their policies are best aligned for Australia (I don't why that ****head is PM) - I shouldn't vote for them to make a stand?

I'm not an apologist for ****heads and racists - but similarly I'm not so insular that I would tar everyone with the same brush.

 

[Play by Numbers]

Calling everyone who boos racist is quite clearly wrong and I don't think anyone believes that. As you said, a small group who do it are clearly racist and I believe it is terrible that people believe them thinking Goodes is a flog as somehow more important than taking a stand against a group of people who have no place in today's society. Also it is quite clearly not good sport for the aboriginal players and in particular Adam Goodes himself. Put yourself in Adam Goodes' position, he is being booed and he knows that a certain group of the people are booing him because they believe he is inferior to them due to his aboriginal heritage. Put yourself in the position of any other aboriginal person who sees an aboriginal icon being booed with a racial element. Good sport ey?

Exactly.

Fans need to consider how are their own players, fellow fans and staff may feel. Who are they alienating. Are they providing cover for racists.

How about Phil Narkle, Hill, Wellingham, you may not like Goodes, you may boo him when he does something to one of our players, but considering he has no negative history against WC, and given there is clearly a vocal racist element involved, be it minor or larger, those players and fans are also going to feel the sting.

So to non indigenous Australians, do you have friends, family or people you know who are of indigenous heritage? Do you know whether this kind of booing and some of the attitudes expressed at games effects them? Maybe it doesn't, maybe they are quiet about it, but also maybe it does and that is worth considering.

 

[The Falcon Strike]

Then you may just be engaging in reality denial. A proportion of booing is certainly related to Goodes race. The fact he is both indigenous Australian, successful in a competitive arena and outspoken has people riled and dare I say many feeling threatened or uncomfortable

Perhaps it is the nature of how he is outspoken...

An Australian of the Year completely shitting on most Australians isn't exactly inclusive is it?

 

[Play by Numbers]

What proportion? 10 people? 38,000 people? Doesn't matter though, does it. All 38,000* West Coast fans at yesterday's game have been labelled as racist by association. That shits me. You can throw the "small portion of the crowd" line as far as you like, the labels have been cast. As I said, it's not sitting well with me.

Do you deny that Goodes' staging yesterday was a bad look? That his actions could have brought on a lot of what came his way by the crowd?

*Of course that didn't factor in what was a solid turnout by the Sydney fans.

They haven't, that is hyperbole.

The club and others have been careful, maybe even too careful, in framing the issue as a minority of the proportion that were vocal.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

What proportion? 10 people? 38,000 people? Doesn't matter though, does it. All 38,000* West Coast fans at yesterday's game have been labelled as racist by association. That shits me. You can throw the "small portion of the crowd" line as far as you like, the labels have been cast. As I said, it's not sitting well with me.

Are we still talking about the club statement? It says that a minority of supporters were booing. Hardly tarring the entire supporter base as racist

 

[WCEswift]

Exactly.

Fans need to consider how are their own players, fellow fans and staff may feel. Who are they alienating. Are they providing cover for racists.

How about Phil Narkle, Hill, Wellingham, you may not like Goodes, you may boo him when he does something to one of our players, but considering he has no negative history against WC, and given there is clearly a vocal racist element involved, be it minor or larger, those players and fans are also going to feel the sting.

So to non indigenous Australians, do you have friends, family or people you know who are of indigenous heritage? Do you know whether this kind of booing and some of the attitudes expressed at games effects them? Maybe it doesn't, maybe they are quiet about it, but also maybe it does and that is worth considering.

You are assuming it was only caucasian people booing... which is incredibly foolish i was there several indigenous of people booing too.

 

[Eastern Rangers]

It gets even murkier when some acts/comments are racist overseas due to years/decades/centuries of ridicule

The most apt term I can think of is "Paki".

In england it is highly derogatory. In australia it is as welcoming as shazz, bazz and straya

Never really hear anyone use the term Paki.

Maybe in reference to the nationality. Like Aussie is short hand for Australian?


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[Schrodinger]

Really disappointing from the club. Should we issue an apology next time we boo Ballantyne?

No.

Hopefully I have been able to set that straight for you. Any time.

OK does anyone else have any straw man arguments they would like to make?

 

[Play by Numbers]

Perhaps it is the nature of how he is outspoken...

An Australian of the Year completely shitting on most Australians isn't exactly inclusive is it?

How is he shitting on them?

Australia has an awful history when it comes to treatment of indigenous Australians. Goodes is diplomatic.

Conversely look at the dialogue in other nations, be that discussing treatment of native populations or periods of institutionalised racism. Take the US for example

If a sports player in the US mirrored Goodes, it would be seen positively and not at all as polarisingly controversial. Tall poppy syndrome and a history of disregarding indigenous rights means the media and public get very touchy when people of colour or Goodes heritage display pride and are vocal.

 

[Play by Numbers]

You are assuming it was only caucasian people booing... which is incredibly foolish i was there several indigenous of people booing too.

Am I? No indication that is the case.

 

[Luuuc]

We want our fans to support our team, but there are some boundaries that need to be observed. We cannot and will not condone racist behaviour.

I resent the direct linking of booing to racism. I find that insulting.

I'm surprised and disappointed that racist taunts still occur from spectators, and if that happened yesterday then the AFL has my blessing to throw the book at the culprits. I certainly wouldn't want anyone like that ruining my day at the footy. (For the record, I also didn't like the whole circus that blew up over the Collingwood girl, even though I had no issue at all with Goodes taking offence and reporting it. The subsequent backlash was overkill IMO)

Booing though? Really? Political correctness is getting out of hand when booing professional athletes is out of bounds.

 

[Eastern Rangers]

Perhaps it is the nature of how he is outspoken...

An Australian of the Year completely shitting on most Australians isn't exactly inclusive is it?

While Goodes has made some good points over the years. It's certainly not a pathway to reconciliation and understanding.

As it stands his activism is essentially invisible on the West Coast in terms of media. Peaked with his AOTY and has been perpetuated by the incident with Collingwood, then Hawthrorn and Carlton booing.




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[The Falcon Strike]

Never really hear anyone use the term Paki.

Maybe in reference to the nationality. Like Aussie is short hand for Australian?


Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk

IN Australia - Paki is simply short for Pakistani. Nothing racist, just good ole shortening of a name and throwing an o or i at the end. Davo, Macca, Paki etc

Usually heard in cricket. "Oh this summer we have the kiwis and the paki's coming out"

In England it is a derogatory comment aimed at anyone of asian (sub-continental) origin.

 

[WCEswift]

So to non indigenous Australians, do you have friends, family or people you know who are of indigenous heritage?

Right here why not indigenous australians have a little think too, certainly not only Caucasians

 

[Play by Numbers]

I resent the direct linking of booing to racism. I find that insulting.

Booing though? Really? Political correctness is getting out of hand when booing professional athletes is out of bounds.

If the comment is not directed at you then why be offended. There is definitely a racist element. The booing provides cover for those people.

No other player gets the same kind of treatment.

He has no history with WC, so why jump on the bandwagon? Consider it has been framed within the issue of race for a while. You know how thats the way the booing is perceived. That the players see it that way. The club. Some in the media and certainly many fans.

So still booing for no particular reason other than herd behavior, is fairly questionable.

 

[BartBart]

* From now on any other club's supporters who boo Goodes - it is WCE fault.
* Should we let those who are booing goods continue booing, whilst others can do it by whilstling, maybe?
* which august panel will be put together to rule who we are allowed to boo and who we aren't?
* obviously anyone associated with the COLA Swans cannot be booed under any situation
* obviously that same panel will be able to retrospectively judge why the crowd is booing in any situation in the previous w/e.

 

[Play by Numbers]

Right here why not indigenous australians have a little think too, certainly not only Caucasians

What are you even talking about? Where has the word caucasians been used?

 

[Schrodinger]

Why doesn't the club come out against the boo'ing of umpires that goes on every week?

If there was one Aboriginal umpire (actually, even if they were white probably) who was booed mercilessly and abused every time he blew the whistle, and it became acutely embarrassing for the football community due to being completely out of proportion to the booing of the other umpires, I expect they would.

Umpires are generally booed when they make decisions that go against the home team (particularly those that appear incorrect)
Adam Goodes is booed every time he goes near the football, for reasons wholly unrelated to any events which have occurred during the game in question

I keep seeing bizarre analogies being drawn which don't make a lick of logical sense...

 

[The Falcon Strike]

How is he shitting on them?

Australia has an awful history when it comes to treatment of indigenous Australians. Goodes is diplomatic.

Conversely look at the dialogue in other nations, be that discussing treatment of native populations or periods of institutionalised racism. Take the US for example

If a sports player in the US mirrored Goodes, it would be seen positively and not at all as polarisingly controversial. Tall poppy syndrome and a history of disregarding indigenous rights means the media and public get very touchy when people of colour or Goodes heritage display pride and are vocal.

So invasion day, rapists etc.

Rightly or wrongly they are sins of the past.

I don't call a german a nazi because one of their ancestors lived in Germany. I don't yell Tora Tora Tora at any Japanese person I meet.

Modern day Australia has apologised formally for actions of the past. We also spend a disproportionate amount of taxpayers money attempting to right the wrongs and reduce the gap.

If Goodes had used his platform to solely focus on challenges of modern day indigenous Australians, the education and health gap et al - it would have been far more inclusive. Instead he chose to alienate a huge amount of people who done little more than be descendants of those who acted poorly.

Rosie Batty hasn't come out and called all men wifebeaters. Had she done so she would have alienated half the population as well.

 

[Adzam]

Footballers get booed for a number of reasons. Some get booed more than others. In this day and age sure there are still a few racist dickheads around but there are just simply not that many people booing Goodes every week because they don't like his skin colour

 

[Play by Numbers]

* From now on any other club's supporters who boo Goodes - it is WCE fault.
* Should we let those who are booing goods continue booing, whilst others can do it by whilstling, maybe?
* which august panel will be put together to rule who we are allowed to boo and who we aren't?
* obviously anyone associated with the COLA Swans cannot be booed under any situation
* obviously that same panel will be able to retrospectively judge why the crowd is booing in any situation in the previous w/e.

Hysterical response.

Is there punitive action being proposed?

No, then why an overreaction to people also expressing their rights to freedom of speech and requesting fans consider how their behavior effects others.

 

[The Falcon Strike]

If the comment is not directed at you then why be offended. There is definitely a racist element. The booing provides cover for those people.

If the booing is not directed at you - why be offended?

 

[OvenSnip]

There are so many morons on here, I made an account against my better judgment.

Australia is trying to make up for the mistakes made in the past by people who are not around any more. Most of us are children of immigrants and were not involved in the policies of the past, Goodes comments quite often are divisive not inclusive. He is getting reasonable Australians off side with his attitude. The problems aboriginals have today are very little to do with racism and more to do with drugs and alcohol and he should highlight the work he is doing with that and not that he thinks we are racists.

Ah, the old "I wasn't even born so it has nothing to do with me" – John Howard talk. What you mean by "reasonable Australians" is actually white Australians like yourself, who don't enjoy hearing or having to think about some uncomfortable truths. Has it occurred to you that there are some, not you and I, who today are actually feeling and living the effects of these "policies of the past"? You make it sound like the "drugs and alcohol" problem popped out of a Kinder Surprise. And thanks for your assessment about the issues facing Aboriginal Australians, but I think I'm gonna take a punt and say that Goodes knows a little more about it than you ever will in your lifetime.

There are racists that boo Goodes. No doubt that is a fact. There are racists who boo goodes and then follow up with vile bigoted comments. That also is true. Those people have also been reported to the security, no doubt including by people who booed goodes.

That doesn't make the booing racist. It certainly doesn't mean that everyone who booed is racist or a redneck as has been stated.

It says volumes about your character that you'll gladly boo alongside racists – the presence of which you happily admit – thinking that your own boos aren't racist (apparently) and therefore somehow others should try and make the f***ing distinction because you can't be bothered. It's like joining in on a lynch mob and claiming afterwards that you were in it for a different reason than the others, so should be absolved.

Here's a simple challenge for you, simpleton: Goodes, Jetta and many others (myself included, but the views that really matters here are Goddes' and Jetta's, not yours or mine) think that booing Goodes in this context is clearly racist, or at the very least has racist undertones, and it is hurting people in a real way that you cannot possibly understand, so why not stop booing? And if you don't want to be misconstrued as a racist, don't f***ing boo with them. If it's so important for you to boo at a football match that you think it should override the real pain felt by others, then you're just a black-and-white arseh*le, pun intended.

Why doesn't the club come out against the boo'ing of umpires that goes on every week?

We'll leave that one for the philosophers.