Current Brian Thompson United Healthcare CEO Ambushed & Killed - Manhattan US * Penn graduate Luigi Mangione arrested

[ms finch]

Yep. You just can't reason with an American about gun control.

They are utterly incapable of reasoning that their regular mass hootings are somehow equated to the proliferation of guns.

They have weapons far more powerful than is needed to drop a grizzly, but are prepared to sacrifice their kids each and every year rather than give up their right to carry those weapons.

Yes. It never ceases to amaze me that people in the US who I would otherwise consider sensible and similarly minded suddenly launch into a huge defence of their right to guns and completely ignore the overwhelming evidence worldwide that limiting access to guns works.

The love their guns.

 

[craffles]

That's fascinating. Thank you so much for sharing.

I remember not that long ago when the Liberal party here considered paring back Medicare. The reaction from the public was so swift and negative they abandoned it as a policy within a few weeks.

I agree there is a huge difference culturally. I don't think Australia is perfect by any means, but I think we are less individualistic than the US.

Nothing has changed over there in decades, and I don't believe this shooting will have any real impact. There is no real will to change it.

I have worked in women's reproductive rights on and off for over 2 decades, including in the US. When Roe v Wade was overturned with Dobbs, there was the same outrage amongst a large portion of the community. However, that outrage was channelled into floods of donations to abortion funds, offers of support for organisations, people sharing their expertise to figure out how to navigate the system, protests, and campaigns to support pro choice politicians and ballots on the issue at elections. The productive support was absolutely mammoth.

As a result of this, more women were able to access abortions in the year after Dobbs than in the year before; funds have the capacity to help people with medication, travel, accommodation and medical support; there are a number of websites that explain people's options to them so they can access the healthcare they need; blue states set up shield laws so medical professionals and women who travelled to their states would be protected; and laws to enshrine a woman's right to choose appeared on multiple ballots in the recent elections, passing in the vast majority.

I cannot begin to describe the despair, devastation and feelings of hopelessness amongst millions of people the day that ruling came down. But the people who have worked in this area were prepared for it and knew what needed to be done, and those same millions of people responded to those calls and made things happen. None of them went out and shot anyone to do it, either.

I don't see any of that type of thing amongst this outrage. There aren't mass donations to charities that help people with healthcare; there aren't people organising politically; there aren't people setting up websites to help others navigate the system. They're not doing anything because they're not interested in doing anything. I also ask myself why, given they have all apparently been so screwed over and outraged for so long, they needed a shooting to start any sort of conversation.

This was a really interesting read and a perspective I hadn’t considered. You are absolutely right with how the outrage could have been channeled into actions that led to improvements, even if it was by social funding.

 

[ms finch]

This was a really interesting read and a perspective I hadn’t considered. You are absolutely right with how the outrage could have been channeled into actions that led to improvements, even if it was by social funding.

Thanks for reading it.

I find the reaction to all this one of the most disturbing things I've ever seen in the US, which is really saying something.

I understood the venting outrage in the immediate aftermath. People had been frustrated for years and wanted to let it out. Plus I suspect a lot of people got caught up in the drama because it was playing out like a spy novel, and it's easy to project your own ideal onto a faceless individual.

When he was caught, I happened to be in a subreddit that very quickly identified his social media so I was able to look at it firsthand before it was removed, and a lot of it was preserved in screenshots as well. Find me any activist, or even anyone who cares about a cause, and their social media will be filled with reference to that cause - stories, links to articles, causes, organisations, thoughts on the issue. There is nothing on his social media about healthcare. Even more than that, there is nothing substantive about any particular issue. It's all philosophical ideology, with an undertone of supremacy, racism, misogyny and other bigotry. The most community thing he has ever done of his own volition is live in a surfing co-living community in Hawaii.

The only reference to anything medical is that he had a back issue and then an injury. He received incredibly expensive surgery that was successful; he posts in his reddit about the fact that within a week he was pain free and off all medication and encourages others to consider the surgery. As we know, his family is super wealthy, so even if there were gaps in his insurance (which was not UHC anyway) it's not like he will ever have faced financial issues from any medical bills.

His "manifesto" looks like a half-baked justification that he cobbled together after the fact based on what he was reading about the situation and himself online. It's 262 words written in the past tense.

His portrayal of himself is that of an attention-seeking privileged narcissist with a massive superiority, even supremacy, streak.

On top of not doing anything productive with their outrage, people are now channelling their energy into him as some sort of altruistic, egalitarian hero who took one for the team. It's bonkers.

 

[ms finch]

This is the federal indictment affidavit: https://static01.nyt.com/newsgraphics/documenttools/cb910ec413ebe6c9/b4aa3510-full.pdf

 

[SeaOfFire]

Thanks for reading it.

I find the reaction to all this one of the most disturbing things I've ever seen in the US, which is really saying something.

I understood the venting outrage in the immediate aftermath. People had been frustrated for years and wanted to let it out. Plus I suspect a lot of people got caught up in the drama because it was playing out like a spy novel, and it's easy to project your own ideal onto a faceless individual.

When he was caught, I happened to be in a subreddit that very quickly identified his social media so I was able to look at it firsthand before it was removed, and a lot of it was preserved in screenshots as well. Find me any activist, or even anyone who cares about a cause, and their social media will be filled with reference to that cause - stories, links to articles, causes, organisations, thoughts on the issue. There is nothing on his social media about healthcare. Even more than that, there is nothing substantive about any particular issue. It's all philosophical ideology, with an undertone of supremacy, racism, misogyny and other bigotry. The most community thing he has ever done of his own volition is live in a surfing co-living community in Hawaii.

The only reference to anything medical is that he had a back issue and then an injury. He received incredibly expensive surgery that was successful; he posts in his reddit about the fact that within a week he was pain free and off all medication and encourages others to consider the surgery. As we know, his family is super wealthy, so even if there were gaps in his insurance (which was not UHC anyway) it's not like he will ever have faced financial issues from any medical bills.

His "manifesto" looks like a half-baked justification that he cobbled together after the fact based on what he was reading about the situation and himself online. It's 262 words written in the past tense.

His portrayal of himself is that of an attention-seeking privileged narcissist with a massive superiority, even supremacy, streak.

On top of not doing anything productive with their outrage, people are now channelling their energy into him as some sort of altruistic, egalitarian hero who took one for the team. It's bonkers.

I could edit parts of the quote for more impact - but I'll just draw attention to the last 2 sentences - which could easily be applied to the dude they elected President recently, following a shooting at a rally.

You are overlooking a critical element of American public life - you have to be lionised and be viewed heroically and on a hero's quest to have any hope of resonating with the public. In the case of Luigi, sans a million dollar PR team, the media and other social media commentators can swing in and do just that.

The idea of 'one man against the world' is a founding modern principle of American life - the idea of a group or a groundswell of social activism doesn't hold anything like the sway of the hero's quest. Groups are prone to mob mentality (omg communists!!), but the solo hero/cult of the individual is on a divine mission - can you see the difference and why it appears so bonkers to you?

Trump and Luigi are insights into the mind of the average American.....vis, wealthy heroes, who see the truth and do something about it are the only hope American has.

 

[Bostonian]

I could edit parts of the quote for more impact - but I'll just draw attention to the last 2 sentences - which could easily be applied to the dude they elected President recently, following a shooting at a rally.

You are overlooking a critical element of American public life - you have to be lionised and be viewed heroically and on a hero's quest to have any hope of resonating with the public. In the case of Luigi, sans a million dollar PR team, the media and other social media commentators can swing in and do just that.

The idea of 'one man against the world' is a founding modern principle of American life - the idea of a group or a groundswell of social activism doesn't hold anything like the sway of the hero's quest. Groups are prone to mob mentality (omg communists!!), but the solo hero/cult of the individual is on a divine mission - can you see the difference and why it appears so bonkers to you?

Trump and Luigi are insights into the mind of the average American.....vis, wealthy heroes, who see the truth and do something about it are the only hope American has.

Much of the US mindset goes back to the frontier days. Back to peoples ancestors who forged a nation through hardship and lead.

Plenty of US heroes were not wealthy heroes, but many were driven for better lives and with a dose of not trusting the Government thrown in.

Several of the Founding Fathers warned of what today's partisan politics has evolved into because they could see it starting to happen in their time.

 

[Kurve]

That shot looked quite purposeful to me but he's pleaded not guilty.

Luigi Mangione pleads not guilty to murdering health insurance CEO

The alleged killer of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson has pleaded not guilty to state murder and terror charges in a New York court.

www.abc.net.au

 

[faible]

That shot looked quite purposeful to me but he's pleaded not guilty.

Luigi Mangione pleads not guilty to murdering health insurance CEO

The alleged killer of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson has pleaded not guilty to state murder and terror charges in a New York court.

www.abc.net.au

Keep in mind the first degree murder charge is linked to it being an act of terrorism, AFAIK second degree murder is what deliberately shooting someone would usually be charged as.

So he could easily plead not-guilty to first degree murder even if it was deliberate.