Current Brian Thompson United Healthcare CEO Ambushed & Killed - Manhattan US * Penn graduate Luigi Mangione arrested

[Cyber_punk]

Sounds like the suspect may have some mental health issues and a grievance against corporate healthcare types.

You can’t cold bloodedly murder someon and take away their Dad. I can empathise with someone effected by a broken health care system but not to the extent of condoning murder.

You can legally do it if you are a Health insurance CEO

 

[Todman]

 

[SeaOfFire]

And the world moves ever closer to the Phoenix Joker becoming manifested in reality.

Because corporations have more rights than individuals, yet none of the ethical constraints - and this fact is celebrated and championed at every turn.

 

[Lockyer24]

Agreed. The US Government clearly need to fix the health system which allows these companies to operate this way.

Murdering someone won't actually fix the problems with the health system, he will just be replaced eventually, and the company will just go on.

Correct - it’s been painful to read the moronic Americans on Reddit all week

 

[sherb]

Agreed. The US Government clearly need to fix the health system which allows these companies to operate this way.

Murdering someone won't actually fix the problems with the health system, he will just be replaced eventually, and the company will just go on.

Is that a US government in an alternate reality you are talking about?

Because the US health system isn't going to be fixed by any US government in the current reality.

And that's how things end up at this extreme, sadly.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

Is that a US government in an alternate reality you are talking about?

Because the US health system isn't going to be fixed by any US government in the current reality.

And that's how things end up at this extreme, sadly.

No, what was said is they need to fix it. Not that they will fix it. Two very different things.

The only way their health system is fixed if its lead by government, needs to be incorporated into their budget, their tax system, congress etc etc. Apart from people feeling good about it, murdering this CEO won't actually change anything, except maybe insurance premiums going up because all the remaining execs hire private security and pass that cost on to consumers.

You cannot have a private health system in a capitalist society and expect companies to be ethical without very stringent governance managed by regulators, which they clearly dont have in place.

I think it's highly likely we see other copycat murders, even across other industries.

 

[spinynorman]

View attachment 2185042

Better looking than any of us had imagined.

 

[SeaOfFire]

No, what was said is they need to fix it. Not that they will fix it. Two very different things.

The only way their health system is fixed if its lead by government, needs to be incorporated into their budget, their tax system, congress etc etc. Apart from people feeling good about it, murdering this CEO won't actually change anything, except maybe insurance premiums going up because all the remaining execs hire private security and pass that cost on to consumers.

You cannot have a private health system in a capitalist society and expect companies to be ethical without very stringent governance managed by regulators, which they clearly dont have in place.

I think it's highly likely we see other copycat murders, even across other industries.

There's only some people who feel the system needs fixing - there's plenty more who believe it is working perfectly well - this forum is awash with them.

"You cannot have a private health system in a capitalist society and expect companies to be ethical without very stringent governance" - unless the government is an arm of corporations, which is certainly the case in America (hence the oft-coined term "Corporate America", which clearly indicates it is a separate institution with accordingly separate obligations and functions)

Eventually, maybe, hopefully, the mass of apologists in the western world will begin to grasp the problem at the root of almost every ill in society....capitalism.

Until then, feel free to continue to ignore the elephant in the room and dance around the problem and try to paint it as something else.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

There's only some people who feel the system needs fixing - there's plenty more who believe it is working perfectly well - this forum is awash with them.

"You cannot have a private health system in a capitalist society and expect companies to be ethical without very stringent governance" - unless the government is an arm of corporations, which is certainly the case in America (hence the oft-coined term "Corporate America", which clearly indicates it is a separate institution with accordingly separate obligations and functions)

Eventually, maybe, hopefully, the mass of apologists in the western world will begin to grasp the problem at the root of almost every ill in society....capitalism.

Until then, feel free to continue to ignore the elephant in the room and dance around the problem and try to paint it as something else.

No one's dancing around the issue. Capitalism is not a bad thing if it is managed and regulated accordingly. As far as US healthcare system goes, it seems very highly UN regulated if some of the stories about how UnitedHealthCare operates is true.

Capitalism has its issues sure, and needs to be managed accordingly, but I'm not sure what other system you would like implemented? maybe you can suggest one?

 

[SeaOfFire]

No one's dancing around the issue. Capitalism is not a bad thing if it is managed and regulated accordingly. As far as US healthcare system goes, it seems very highly UN regulated if some of the stories about how UnitedHealthCare operates is true.

Capitalism has its issues sure, and needs to be managed accordingly, but I'm not sure what other system you would like implemented? maybe you can suggest one?

ROFL.

I don't need to suggest one - there is decades, if not centuries, of discourse by far smarter persons than myself at your fingertips to educate yourself - feel free to do so, rather than occupy some moral ground that is built on the blood of exploitation and blinkered by self-interest.

I'll just chuck you in the basket labelled "apologist" and leave it there.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

ROFL.

I don't need to suggest one - there is decades, if not centuries, of discourse by far smarter persons than myself at your fingertips to educate yourself - feel free to do so, rather than occupy some moral ground that is built on the blood of exploitation and blinkered by self-interest.

I'll just chuck you in the basket labelled "apologist" and leave it there.

You think capitalism is bad, and when asked what you think is a better system you just call them an apologist? Instead of just having a discussion?

amazing stuff.

 

[Todman]

Better looking than any of us had imagined.

Have you seen his sixpack?

 

[HirdsTheWord]

can any of the legal eagles provide some color why he was likely charged with second degree murder? as opposed to first degree murder? First degree is premeditated/planned no?

 

[rdhopkins2]

Maybe it’s easier to charge and hold him u der second degree murder charges rather than first degree? Possibly mental health issues so he may get off first degree but second degree charges may stick?

 

[spinynorman]

can any of the legal eagles provide some color why he was likely charged with second degree murder? as opposed to first degree murder? First degree is premeditated/planned no?

View attachment 2185198

Something posted online, that we’ll soon see whether it’s true or not, is that he was a well functioning and successful young man (which seems true from what a lot of what has been found online of his social media presence) who had a severe back injury, and that his medication for it made him increasingly withdrawn from loved ones to the point where nobody had heard from him for six months. So I suppose it might be that he did not have his faculties. We’ll soon know, I suppose.

 

[Anja_Nees]

A document purporting to be his manifesto is circulating online:

 

[ep2018]

can any of the legal eagles provide some color why he was likely charged with second degree murder? as opposed to first degree murder? First degree is premeditated/planned no?

View attachment 2185198

New York has strict laws on what counts as first degree murder. I copied this from Reddit:

• Repeat offender
• Victim was an informant, cop, prison guard, or certain other category of government worker
• Victim was killed during the carrying out of a different serious crime (felony murder)
• Proven murder for hire
• Serial killing (2 or more victims in less than 24 months before being caught)
• Especially inhumane killing method (e.g. slow torture instead of shooting)
• Act of terrorism

Murder that doesn't conform to the above is second degree murder.

 

[kaiserchief13]

A document purporting to be his manifesto is circulating online:

I guess there's the motive and the process of claims at United Healthcare are what got the CEO killed.

 

[MSB ROYS]

I guess there's the motive and the process of claims at United Healthcare are what got the CEO killed.

Community Notes state that there is no evidence that this is real.

 

[faible]

Also comes from quite a wealthy family, which could make the trial interesting. I believe the extradition is already being contested.

 

[Munich]

Sorry but the first pic released of the shooter and then this kid, do not look alike.

Something is very fishy here.

 

[SeaOfFire]

You think capitalism is bad, and when asked what you think is a better system you just call them an apologist? Instead of just having a discussion?

amazing stuff.

I know, crazy hey?

But then, I've learnt that this forum, like the bulk of (western) society, is a black hole for ideas that are contrary to the lived experience of the inhabitants.

So rather than waste my time and yours, it is far easier to place the onus of education onto you, rather than endeavour to wade through the absorbed ignorance that underpins your conception of this reality.

And if you REALLY REALLY want to start removing that ignorance, then you can begin by realising that many of the things you happily accept in this society that you live in are false and illusory.

Things are not binary, ie not black and white, good and bad, happy and sad, true or false.
Things are not even grey.
Things simply are.

Start by seeing things as they are, not as you think they are, or as you wish them to be or how you are told they are.

To do that effectively, to have ANY hope of removing your perceptual ignorance, you have to start first with yourself. Start seeing yourself as you really are....not as how you WANT to be perceived, or how you THINK you are perceived or how others SAY you are.

As you actually are.

It takes years to do that - it is difficult, it is confronting, it is painful.And it requires constant attention.

Chances are though, it's far easier for you to simply ignore and belittle and dismiss my words and continue living with your comforting ignorance.

 

[Mofra]

No one's dancing around the issue. Capitalism is not a bad thing if it is managed and regulated accordingly. As far as US healthcare system goes, it seems very highly UN regulated if some of the stories about how UnitedHealthCare operates is true.

Capitalism has its issues sure, and needs to be managed accordingly, but I'm not sure what other system you would like implemented? maybe you can suggest one?

29 out of 30 OECD countries have universal healthcare.

The US system, which costs around 240% of the OECD average, doesn't. It's a failed system.

The alleged shooter has chronic back pain. He shot a CEO who implemented an AI system that denies 90% of claims, including a small outlay for anti-nausea medication for a child undergoing chemotherapy.
Medical bills are the no 1 cause of bankruptcy in the US.

It's no wonder there has been an outpouring of support for the shooter.

 

[RICHOLEGEND12]

This guy has so much support and adoration on the internet. It actually seems he's united alot of different people. I've never seen anything like it. Crazy times over there in the USA.

 

[Mofra]

This guy has so much support and adoration on the internet. It actually seems he's united alot of different people. I've never seen anything like it. Crazy times over there in the USA.

Wealth inequality in the US right now is akin to France in the 1780s just prior to the revolution.
1 in 7 US citizens relies on foodstamps and their healthcare and education sectors are an absolute shambles.

It's nuts and I'm not sure the current situation is sustainable there. Add the proliferation of guns throughout society and it's a tinderbox.